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  1. #2041
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Dallas, TX
    Quote Originally Posted by DavidBenAkiva View Post
    I feel like I should put a nickel in the jar each time I read that Henry Coleman, a person that I would bet none of us have met in real life, is growing or is now up to 6'8" and 245 lbs. This is like the updates on Vernon Carey's weight last summer. 'I heard he was down to 255!' And then he was listed at 270 in the official roster on GoDuke.com.
    He's also ranked outside the top 40, which doesn't give me much hope that he can be a strong contributor as a freshman. In fact, I doubt he plays much at all. We will have Jalen Johnson, Mark Williams, Jaemyn Brakefield, (likely) Matthew Hurt, and Wendell Moore playing ahead of him at the 4 and 5. That says "garbage time until further notice" to me for Henry Coleman.

    I don't think it's a major issue that we only have 1 player taller than 6'8" (or 2 if Matthew Hurt returns), as long as we make up for that size differential in other ways (offense). We'll just need to figure out ways to be able to hang with bigger teams on the defense glass.

    Also, why do people keep wanting to put Matthew Hurt at center? Absolutely nothing about his game resembles that of a center. Even were he to get significantly stronger, he does not play like a post player at all. He's a perimeter guy in a big man's body. I can't see him playing any position other than the 4 at the D-1 or NBA level.
    Last edited by kAzE; 03-09-2020 at 12:47 PM.

  2. #2042
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Boston, MA
    Quote Originally Posted by kAzE View Post
    He's also ranked outside the top 40, which doesn't give me much hope that he can be a strong contributor as a freshman. I don't think it's a major issue that we only have 1 player taller than 6'8", as long as we make up for that size differential in other ways (offense). We'll just need to figure out ways to be able to hang with bigger teams on the defense glass.
    It won't be much of a problem if we can contain penetration, which has often been an issue for young teams.

    Worst case scenario is the 2013-14 season, where we couldn't prevent penetration and didn't have a rim protector (sophomore Amile was just too overwhelmed and not big enough).

    That team sets the bar for utterly terrible Duke defense.
    Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfils the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things. - Winston Churchill

    President of the "Nolan Smith Should Have His Jersey in The Rafters" Club

  3. #2043
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Quote Originally Posted by kAzE View Post
    He's also ranked outside the top 40, which doesn't give me much hope that he can be a strong contributor as a freshman. In fact, I doubt he plays much at all. We will have Jalen Johnson, Mark Williams, Jaemyn Brakefield, (likely) Matthew Hurt, and Wendell Moore playing ahead of him at the 4 and 5. That says "garbage time until further notice" to me for Henry Coleman.

    I don't think it's a major issue that we only have 1 player taller than 6'8" (or 2 if Matthew Hurt returns), as long as we make up for that size differential in other ways (offense). We'll just need to figure out ways to be able to hang with bigger teams on the defense glass.

    Also, why do people keep wanting to put Matthew Hurt at center? Absolutely nothing about his game resembles that of a center. Even were he to get significantly stronger, he does not play like a post player at all. He's a perimeter guy in a big man's body. I can't see him playing any position other than the 4 at the D-1 or NBA level.
    Interestingly, playing two forwards at the 4 and 5 might/should be better defensively as well.

    I mean, it's not like Coach K is going to all of a sudden drop his big men back in pick-n-roll, right? So, instead of Mark Williams protecting the basket, you're going to see lots of our 30-ish-ranked freshman center haplessly getting dribbled by on the perimeter. At least if we void the middle on offense, we'll have better driving lanes, fewer turnovers, and overall more effective offense, which in turn limits transition opportunities by opposing offenses. And in the halfcourt, we perhaps end up tricking teams with true centers into posting up much more than they should instead of focusing on driving the ball.

  4. #2044
    JGold is our only really good defender returning. Moore is decent. AOC, Joey and Hurt are average at best. I predict a lot of zone but playing smaller would help in M2M pick and roll defense. Rebounding might be more of an issue than defense.

    Hurt’s skill was evident this year but he was a typical freshman. He had a lot of shots that rimmed out and he reacted a half a second too slow on defense. I could see him make a huge leap next year. I predict Matt will put a Hurtin’ on the ACC next year.

  5. #2045
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Deeetroit City
    Quote Originally Posted by DavidBenAkiva View Post
    I feel like I should put a nickel in the jar each time I read that Henry Coleman, a person that I would bet none of us have met in real life, is growing or is now up to 6'8" and 245 lbs. This is like the updates on Vernon Carey's weight last summer. 'I heard he was down to 255!' And then he was listed at 270 in the official roster on GoDuke.com.
    It's all in the shoes!



    Quote Originally Posted by kAzE View Post
    … I don't think it's a major issue that we only have 1 player taller than 6'8" (or 2 if Matthew Hurt returns), ...
    Worry not. Duke's MBB, Med School, Hospital, BME and ME programs, are teaming up on a literal "stretch 4" program. Even Goldwire will be over 6' 8" by the start of next season!

  6. #2046
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Boston, MA
    Quote Originally Posted by lotusland View Post
    JGold is our only really good defender returning. Moore is decent. AOC, Joey and Hurt are average at best. I predict a lot of zone but playing smaller would help in M2M pick and roll defense. Rebounding might be more of an issue than defense.

    Hurt’s skill was evident this year but he was a typical freshman. He had a lot of shots that rimmed out and he reacted a half a second too slow on defense. I could see him make a huge leap next year. I predict Matt will put a Hurtin’ on the ACC next year.
    JGold is indeed great. With a year of experience and more ballhandlers, Wendell should be able to put more focus on defense. The tools are all there.

    You're right on AOC, Joey, and Hurt. "Average" on defense is very, very kind. And for very different reasons. AOC loses his man all the time. Baker has poor positioning. And Hurt is the most timid Duke player I've seen in a while. The good news is they should all improve and have a collective 6 years playing in the Duke system. But AOC needs to focus, Baker needs to focus on fundamentals, and Hurt needs to add 15 lbs. At the minimum.

    But what I like is we have at least 1 excellent defender who will absolutely be part of the rotation in JGold. And that's better than some years where we had no idea what we'd have defensively.
    Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfils the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things. - Winston Churchill

    President of the "Nolan Smith Should Have His Jersey in The Rafters" Club

  7. #2047
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by Troublemaker View Post
    Name the highly-ranked 5 that is available. A lowly-ranked 5 would probably sit on the bench for four years (or transfer) if history is any indicator.

    t.
    Prep centers? Probably none.

    But an international big or a grad-student transfer cannot be ruled out. Not saying it's likely. But it can't be ruled out either.

  8. #2048
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    Dur'm
    Quote Originally Posted by BD80 View Post
    It's all in the shoes!
    Don't tell that to Zion.

  9. #2049
    Quote Originally Posted by flyingdutchdevil View Post
    It won't be much of a problem if we can contain penetration, which has often been an issue for young teams.
    Worst case scenario is the 2013-14 season, where we couldn't prevent penetration and didn't have a rim protector (sophomore Amile was just too overwhelmed and not big enough).
    That team sets the bar for utterly terrible Duke defense.
    Small ball could work well for Duke, particularly if the guard play can press and trap and generally prevent opposing guards from finding passes into the post.

    Quote Originally Posted by lotusland View Post
    JGold is our only really good defender returning. Moore is decent. AOC, Joey and Hurt are average at best. I predict a lot of zone but playing smaller would help in M2M pick and roll defense. Rebounding might be more of an issue than defense.
    Hurt’s skill was evident this year but he was a typical freshman. He had a lot of shots that rimmed out and he reacted a half a second too slow on defense. I could see him make a huge leap next year. I predict Matt will put a Hurtin’ on the ACC next year.
    Moore is better than decent on defense. He makes mistakes from time to time, but he's versatile and long and is much better than average. He has the tools to be a great defensive wing, and could very well get to that point next year. A bit of improvement on recognition of defense on the offensive side could really turn him into a star player for Duke next year.

  10. #2050
    Quote Originally Posted by DavidBenAkiva View Post
    I feel like I should put a nickel in the jar each time I read that Henry Coleman, a person that I would bet none of us have met in real life, is growing or is now up to 6'8" and 245 lbs. This is like the updates on Vernon Carey's weight last summer. 'I heard he was down to 255!' And then he was listed at 270 in the official roster on GoDuke.com.
    Clint Jackson, from Rivals, lives close to Henry in Richmond and has been following him for 3 years. Very close to the family. He says he is 6'8" 240. Not sure why he would embellish that, but take what you want from it. Doesn't mean he will help us at center next year, but doesn't mean he want. Kid has a strong work ethic and is a sponge, like Vernon has been this year. I would venture to say that we would get more out of Coleman at the 5 than Matthew.

    Would love to find a 4* big man like Brooks. Roy has his weaknesses, but developing big men isn't one of them

  11. #2051
    Small ball can be effective, but at some point - you have to control the boards. Small ball doesn't do this consistently. Ask Coach Capel if he needs height and depth down low.

  12. #2052
    Quote Originally Posted by Pghdukie View Post
    Small ball can be effective, but at some point - you have to control the boards. Small ball doesn't do this consistently. Ask Coach Capel if he needs height and depth down low.
    If you want to see how effective small ball can be, watch Creighton in the NCAA Tournament

    PG: SO Marcus Zegorowski 6'2" 180 lbs
    G: JR Ty-Shon Alexander 6'4" 195 lbs
    G: JR Mitchell Blalock 6'5" 205 lbs
    F: JR Damien Jefferson 6'5" 200 lbs
    F: SO Christian Bishop 6'7" 205 lbs

    The only guy taller than 6'5" they bring off the bench is 6'11" SR Kelvin Jones, but he only plays 11 minutes a game. None of the starters average more than 5 rebounds a game. As you might guess, they are a pretty terrible rebounding team and among the worst at shot blocking. One of the best shooting teams, though. It's a team I am interested in watching in the NCAA Tournament.

  13. #2053
    Quote Originally Posted by DavidBenAkiva View Post
    If you want to see how effective small ball can be, watch Creighton in the NCAA Tournament

    PG: SO Marcus Zegorowski 6'2" 180 lbs
    G: JR Ty-Shon Alexander 6'4" 195 lbs
    G: JR Mitchell Blalock 6'5" 205 lbs
    F: JR Damien Jefferson 6'5" 200 lbs
    F: SO Christian Bishop 6'7" 205 lbs

    The only guy taller than 6'5" they bring off the bench is 6'11" SR Kelvin Jones, but he only plays 11 minutes a game. None of the starters average more than 5 rebounds a game. As you might guess, they are a pretty terrible rebounding team and among the worst at shot blocking. One of the best shooting teams, though. It's a team I am interested in watching in the NCAA Tournament.
    Just because you can find an example of a team that can play a small lineup effectively doesn't mean that is what we should want to do. If we can recruit solid rim protectors and rebounders that would make us more well rounded.

  14. #2054
    Quote Originally Posted by DavidBenAkiva View Post
    If you want to see how effective small ball can be, watch Creighton in the NCAA Tournament

    PG: SO Marcus Zegorowski 6'2" 180 lbs
    G: JR Ty-Shon Alexander 6'4" 195 lbs
    G: JR Mitchell Blalock 6'5" 205 lbs
    F: JR Damien Jefferson 6'5" 200 lbs
    F: SO Christian Bishop 6'7" 205 lbs

    The only guy taller than 6'5" they bring off the bench is 6'11" SR Kelvin Jones, but he only plays 11 minutes a game. None of the starters average more than 5 rebounds a game. As you might guess, they are a pretty terrible rebounding team and among the worst at shot blocking. One of the best shooting teams, though. It's a team I am interested in watching in the NCAA Tournament.
    Yea, better tune in early to watch the Blue Jays, they won't be around later. No D and once their shooting drops a bit, they’re gone.

  15. #2055
    Any chance we pursue the grad transfer market for a center?

  16. #2056
    Quote Originally Posted by BlueDevil16 View Post
    Any chance we pursue the grad transfer market for a center?
    Has K ever pursued any graduate transfers?

  17. #2057
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Hot'Lanta... home of the Falcons!
    Quote Originally Posted by Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15 View Post
    Has K ever pursued any graduate transfers?
    Jim Sumner, who is waaaaay closer to K and the program than the rest of us combined, seems to consistently say it is a possibility. Not likely, but he seems to imply that it is not something K has permanently ruled out.
    Why are you wasting time here when you could be wasting it by listening to the latest episode of the DBR Podcast?

  18. #2058
    Quote Originally Posted by Saratoga2 View Post
    Just because you can find an example of a team that can play a small lineup effectively doesn't mean that is what we should want to do. If we can recruit solid rim protectors and rebounders that would make us more well rounded.
    You are reading way too much into my post. I am suggesting that you and others might want to see how Creighton employs a small lineup. There are others that do this out of design or necessity.

    I agree that we want rebounding and rim protecting. You don't need a guy to be 7'2" to have those things. It helps, but it is not necessary. A team can be big even if the tallest guy is a nominal forward. And you can alter shots without having a true center on the team. I'm not sure Duke's roster next year, as it currently looks, will be good at either of those things. I'm just pointing out that there are examples of good teams that have not played with a lot of height in the post.

  19. #2059
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    NC
    Quote Originally Posted by Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15 View Post
    Has K ever pursued any graduate transfers?
    They pursued Tarik Black for the 2014 season (he chose Kansas), and briefly courted Dylan Ennis before the the 2016 season until Thornton agreed to come early.

  20. #2060
    I think there are some things here that can not really be answered...yet.

    No one can say how effective Williams will be. He is known much more for his defensive abilities than his offensive skills. How he develops over the summer both on the court and in the strength and conditioning program. He is long at 7-0/7-1 but he is still thin at 220+. Can he stay away from foul issues? He is not a guy that Duke will play through like some of the Duke most recent bigs.

    Henry Coleman's game is relatively unknown to Duke fans, so there is going to be a lot of speculation and reservations about him. Are the reports of him being 6-8 240 legit? If so, does he have any post game after spending most of his HS time playing as a big wing. All that is known is that he has a very good work ethic and motor and he excels on the glass.

    Does Hurt return? This could prove to be very impactful if he does.

    How will Johnson and Brakefield hold up at the 4 physically? Both having pretty good height at 6-8/6-9 but neither is listed above 220. How they will do defensively and rebounding is not known.

    So should Duke pursue a grad player at the 5, sure and there are some out there too. But will they …. again unknown.

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