Avengers: Infinity War (spoiler thread)

[JasonEvans]

So, this is where we will talk about the movie with no holding back. I am not going to put any spoilers in this first post, so folks who accidentally click on the thread will have a chance to get out before they see stuff. The first spoilers will appear in the next post.

[PackMan97]

Noooo!!!! Snape kills Dumbledore?!!! WTF? I mean I go 8 years without being spoiled...to ruin it now...

/sobs

[JasonEvans]

The Ending -- I could not say it in my review, because it would ruin the movie, but I hated that the ending had no stakes. What I mean by that is that they killed off the characters that we know cannot be killed off. If Cap and Iron Man and Thor and Hulk had died, that would have worked for me and would have felt legit. But Sony has already announced Spiderman 2, Disney has said there is going to be a Black Panther 2, and everyone agrees there will be another Dr. Strange movie. It is almost like they killed off the very characters that they had to bring back as a way of showing us, "don't worry, we will fix this and will bring everyone back from the dead." Sheesh!

So, the next movie is going to be all about getting the time stone from Thanos and resetting time to before when he kills half the universe... at least that is my prediction. I sorta hate that I already have a really good sense of what will happen next. There are ways they could have done this and not given me that sense. I tell you, it would be really great if they left everyone dead, but that's not going to happen.

Post credit scene -- A helicopter crashes, Cobie Smulders disappears, and Nick Fury suddenly knows in an instant that now is the moment he needs to call Captain Marvel? All the bad stuff that happened in the past, all the desperate moments where things have looked dire were fine, but when Maria Hill dissolves away, that is when he immediately activates his Captain Marvel beeper. That's too convenient by a mile!

The Early Deaths -- I loved Loki and Gamora being killed by Thanos. Both deaths were earned and were essential to the plot. I will be very upset if the time reset or whatever reverses these deaths.

Thanos and the Black Order -- The first half of the movie, The Black Order and Thanos are incredibly powerful. I loved that. We truly felt there was no way they could be defeated. So, I sorta hated it when "suck him out a hole in the ship" killed Ebony Maw. And I really hated it when the other members of the Black Order just died fairly uninterestingly on the battlefield. I get that their ranks had to be thinned, but the movie kept on going for big, overstuffed battle scenes versus personal ones and that really sucked the tension out of what we were seeing and made the fights less interesting. Come on, Russo Brothers... in Civil War you kept everything small and contained. You largely did the same thing in Winter Soldier. Why have a million people fighting in this movie when a 10 or 15 person battle would have been 5x as interesting. Sigh...

I'll have more later, but (as you can tell) I was somewhat disappointed in this film . It is still a must-see for Marvel fans and I will likely see it again. Much of it is really, really good, but there are some things that stick out as just being lazy. I feel like the massive success of the MCU has made Marvel (and Disney) afraid to take real risks. They played it safe in this movie and went with the most obvious choices they could. That's too bad because the potential was there for something truly great rather than just something pretty good.

-Jason "now, watch me be 100% wrong and the characters who died never come back. I would be thrilled if that happened... but we know it ain't" Evans

[JasonEvans]

Just thought of one more thing...

Red Skull -- When he shows up there was a huge gasp from the audience. Props to Marvel for keeping that under wraps. Also, if you go back and watch the scene where he disappears while holding the Tesseract in The First Avenger, it looks like he is beamed into outer space. I didn't really notice it at the time, but it sorta feels like Marvel knew all the way back then that they would use him again like this. Talk about amazing planning!!!!

-Jason "oh, and making Peter Dinkledge into a giant was beyond brilliant. Best stunt casting ever!!" Evans

[thedukelamere]

So how important does the Captain Marvel movie now become? Went from being a “hope it can be competitive with Wonder Woman” to “ooook I absolutely need to see this movie to bridge the gap between Avengers 3 & 4?”

[JasonEvans]

So how important does the Captain Marvel movie now become? Went from being a “hope it can be competitive with Wonder Woman” to “ooook I absolutely need to see this movie to bridge the gap between Avengers 3 & 4?”

Well, most of us are not going to skip any Marvel movies anyway.

My question is whether Ant Man & The Wasp takes place after the events of this film or before it. I wonder if something in the quantum realm could help solve the problem of half of the universe going "poof." Maybe those folks didn't die, maybe they were all sent to the quantum realm?

[trey]

As usual, I agree with everything you said. Red Skull was such an awesome surprise, but Peter Dinklage’s character reveal was even better. I was in awe for a few minutes. Just great.

I loved 98% of this movie, but the ending was tough to swallow, even if we know most/all of them will be back. My family was in shock. It still seems like a gutsy move by Marvel. I thought Spiderman’s death was well done, but most of them just disappeared. It felt a little rushed at the end, maybe because they had to kill so many characters. The characters left alive just stood there in shock, just like us fans. The lack of an immediate post credit scene also seemed like a kick in the teeth.

My daughter and I were talking about it all the way home and I asked why Dr Strange would so easily surrender the Time Gem. Then it occurred to me that he said it was the only way. Like they HAD to lose this battle to win the war.

Overall I thought it was really well done and I will definitely see it again.

[Wander]

The Ending -- I could not say it in my review, because it would ruin the movie, but I hated that the ending had no stakes. What I mean by that is that they killed off the characters that we know cannot be killed off. If Cap and Iron Man and Thor and Hulk had died, that would have worked for me and would have felt legit. But Sony has already announced Spiderman 2, Disney has said there is going to be a Black Panther 2, and everyone agrees there will be another Dr. Strange movie. It is almost like they killed off the very characters that they had to bring back as a way of showing us, "don't worry, we will fix this and will bring everyone back from the dead." Sheesh!

Came to post this exact paragraph. I could buy them killing half the characters to make room for the X-Men, etc. I could see one or two major characters being included in that. I could maaaaaaaybe see Spider-man being one of them since Peter Parker died in one of the comic book arcs. But Black Panther? And the raccoon being the only Guardian left when Guardians of the Galaxy 3 is already scheduled? Nope.

But, the movie was still cool, and felt more like watching a GoT season finale than an MCU movie. When things get reversed, Loki, Gamora, and Vision should all stay dead.

I liked that the Soul Stone was just on another planet and not also in Wakanda or in the possession of Idris Elba or "it was just within Thanos all along!"

[mr shadow 008]

Came to post this exact paragraph. I could buy them killing half the characters to make room for the X-Men, etc. I could see one or two major characters being included in that. I could maaaaaaaybe see Spider-man being one of them since Peter Parker died in one of the comic book arcs. But Black Panther? And the raccoon being the only Guardian left when Guardians of the Galaxy 3 is already scheduled? Nope.

But, the movie was still cool, and felt more like watching a GoT season finale than an MCU movie. When things get reversed, Loki, Gamora, and Vision should all stay dead.

I liked that the Soul Stone was just on another planet and not also in Wakanda or in the possession of Idris Elba or "it was just within Thanos all along!"

Here’s the thing though. Gotg 2 takes place 4 years before infinity war so it’s definitely possible that gotg 3 could take place inbetween 2 and infinity war.

[PackMan97]

I agree with the problematic ending.

How would it have felt if the folks disappearing were:
Mantis, Drax, Capt America, Black Widow, Iron Man, M'Baku, War Machine, Scarlet Witch, Banner, Falcon and, Nick Furry.

We would be left with many of the folks we expected to die in this movie or the next, or that we know wanted out of their contracts or minor characters that have never been developed. Now that would have been an ending...and everyone would be left wondering WTH just happened. Imagine thinking that all the characters that are gone are actually dead dead. Now that would be a feeling.

[Wander]

I agree with the problematic ending.

How would it have felt if the folks disappearing were:
Mantis, Drax, Capt America, Black Widow, Iron Man, M'Baku, War Machine, Scarlet Witch, Banner, Falcon and, Nick Furry.

We would be left with many of the folks we expected to die in this movie or the next, or that we know wanted out of their contracts or minor characters that have never been developed. Now that would have been an ending...and everyone would be left wondering WTH just happened. Imagine thinking that all the characters that are gone are actually dead dead. Now that would be a feeling.

They could have exactly swapped the deaths and it would have left us wondering if it maybe could be real. In a way, I guess the characters who "died" at the end are actually the safest, because they'll be stored away for the majority of Avengers 4. The ones who are left - which includes all 6 of the original Avengers, plus some secondary characters who aren't that important to the overall MCU - are the ones that are actually in danger because they need to be doing stuff (recollecting the infinity stones, maybe?) in the next movie. So THAT is the movie that will hopefully clear the ranks a little bit for Spiderman, Black Panther, Captain Marvel, and Dr. Strange who will form the core of Avengers 5, 6, etc...

I guess the counterpoint to our complaint is that no one is even going to pretend like those characters at the end are going to stay dead, so it's not really dishonest (contrast to say, Jon Snow). And the scene was still well done.

[JasonEvans]

My daughter and I were talking about it all the way home and I asked why Dr Strange would so easily surrender the Time Gem. Then it occurred to me that he said it was the only way. Like they HAD to lose this battle to win the war.

Yup, that is why I did not mind Strange handing over the time stone without much of a fight. Like Strange cares whether Iron Man lives or dies when compared to the massive loss of half the universe's population?

What did folks think about Hulk refusing to come out? I'm guessing there is some "I was defeated and beaten down by Thanos and I just want to cry in the corner" going on there but I was not a fan of that.

[PackMan97]

What did folks think about Hulk refusing to come out? I'm guessing there is some "I was defeated and beaten down by Thanos and I just want to cry in the corner" going on there but I was not a fan of that.

I think the opposite is true actually.

The hulk has always protected banner. When Banner is about to actually be in mortal peril, the Hulk comes out. In fact, Banner counts on the Hulk always saving him. What if the hulk was actually hurt by Thanos and if the Hulk came out Banner would actually be in worse shape?

[Udaman]

Just saw it...and I thought...it...was...

AWESOME

It takes a lot to stun me. And we’ve seen it all. That’s why I’m so psyched when it happens. I loved the twist with Spider-Man’s crush and her father in Homecoming. I loved the twist in Fight Club. And this ending? I did not see it coming. I thought it would be a typical ending - and I was WRONG. And that’s great.

I liked every part of it. Loved the fact that Thanos was so impossible to kill. Loved everything with the Guardians. Loved the humor. And the end???Man oh man.

And look Marvel got lucky with Black Panther and how well it did, because in the end when the Black Panther dissolved several in the audience shouted out NO!!! It was perfect.

And yes, I don’t think those characters are dead forever (though how cool would it be if the end of the second Spiderman was Peter on the school bus?). I’m fact - the people who survived are the ones we all expected to be out. And in the movie next summer they will be the ones who have to sacrifice to get everyone else back. So the real deaths are due from them. Say goodbye next summer to Captain, Tony, Thor, Hulk, etc.

When the movie ended - it was like a funeral. People were stunned. It was amazing.

A few parts I didn’t like? As JE said - that the Black Order were great until they died too easily. I also don’t know that I fully bought that Thanos loved Gamora. That seemed forced. But that’s it. Movie was great.

And...how epically awesome would it be if in the post credit scene for Deadpool he was doing something perverse and suddenly started to disappear only to have him yell out “Damned you Stan Lee...it’s not even the same franchise...”

[Udaman]

Also - Dr Strange saw only 1 way to beat Thanos. And this was it. He had to let this exact scenario play out. And he did.

And the next avengers will be a great look at loss. Half the Earth killed. 3 billion people. Who is left? Pepper? No way. She (and her unborn child) are gone. Iron Man saves them at his expense. In the meantime they are torn and guilt stricken.

I do think Gamora and Loki are really gone. But guess we will see.

[acdevil]

Have to totally agree with Udaman. It was awesome.

Not sure what to think of that Hulk nonsense though.

Other than that I loved it. I was on the edge of my seat at the end wondering who was going to disappear into ash and who would stay.

[Udaman]

I kind of liked the Hulk aspect. This is an entity that never loses. Not like that. To get hurt is something he doesn’t know. It made sense to me that Hulk wouldn’t want to face that again. And it was kind of funny.

Remember in Age of Ultron - Tony sees everyone dead. It’s all the people left: Hulk, Captain, Thor, Black Widow. That clearly still happens. Can’t wait.

[Native]

The Early Deaths -- I loved Loki and Gamora being killed by Thanos. Both deaths were earned and were essential to the plot. I will be very upset if the time reset or whatever reverses these deaths.

What I'm predicting is that any world-resetting event in Avengers IV will undo The Snap, and only The Snap; that is, if you died a non-Dust-In-The-Wind death, you're gone for good.

This means that...

A) Loki is gone for good. Probably a good choice. He's returned from apparent death, what, twice now?
B) Gamora is gone for good. She's a key part of the Guardians' dynamic, but presuming Thanos somehow loses in the next film, her arc will be pretty much fulfilled.
C) Heimdall is gone for good. I thought the MCU underutilized Idris Elba, but given that Thor now has command of the Bifrost with Stormbreaker, there's no need for Heimdall's services any more.

[Native]

Oh, and Vision. Vision would also be gone.

[Matches]

Oh, and Vision. Vision would also be gone.

Yea but he’s a robot. He’s been rebuilt about eleventy million times in the comics.