CBS: Ranking all of Duke's 16 OAD Players

[fuse]

The premise of this article is completely weighted by individual statistics, which I suppose it must be.

Can Bagley be the best freshman ever at Duke, and still not the best one and done?

If you take season results into account, I’d order the list

Okafor
Winslow
Jones
Bagley
Parker
Ingram
Tatum
Deng
Irving
Carter
Trent
Duval
Rivers
Maggette
Jackson
Giles

Using my logic, you could probably shift Carter, Trent and Duval a few notches higher, and it does look weird to have Irving mid-list.

It’s also stunning as amazing as Maggette was, to see him near the bottom.

[Troublemaker]

Kyrie got to dazzle against the Early non-conference schedule. He’d have probably hit a wall and struggled in a couple of poor shooting ACC games and dulled the luster a little. No doubt the talent was real as evidenced by his NBA career but Kyrie never faced the ACC meat grinder.

Eh. 2011 was before the latest ACC expansion (Notre Dame, Syracuse, Louisville) and before Tony Bennett had gotten UVA humming. I mean, even without Kyrie playing a single ACC game, Duke went 16-3 (including the 3 wins needed for the ACC Championship). I can't see how adding Kyrie would've led to anything but utter dominance, possibly an 18-1 or 19-0 destruction of the conference. So, while you're right that he would not have played well / shot well in every single game because that's impossible, the luster would've remained.

[Acymetric]

Eh. 2011 was before the latest ACC expansion (Notre Dame, Syracuse, Louisville) and before Tony Bennett had gotten UVA humming. I mean, even without Kyrie playing a single ACC game, Duke went 16-3 (including the 3 wins needed for the ACC Championship). I can't see how adding Kyrie would've led to anything but utter dominance, possibly an 18-1 or 19-0 destruction of the conference. So, while you're right that he would not have played well / shot well in every single game because that's impossible, the luster would've remained.

Put me in this camp as well. Of course there is no way to know (sadly), but a full season of Kyrie would have been something to see. Seeing Nolan get to lead that team and flirt with NPOY status was a pretty good consolation prize though.

[sagegrouse]

Put me in this camp as well. Of course there is no way to know (sadly), but a full season of Kyrie would have been something to see. Seeing Nolan get to lead that team and flirt with NPOY status was a pretty good consolation prize though.

Many of you remember Gary Williams' observation at the end of the 2011 season (approximately): "If Kyrie had not been injured, Mike's team would have gone undefeated."

[Troublemaker]

Put me in this camp as well. Of course there is no way to know (sadly), but a full season of Kyrie would have been something to see. Seeing Nolan get to lead that team and flirt with NPOY status was a pretty good consolation prize though.

Yeah, I mean, the only way for the memory of Kyrie-in-college to lose luster WAS for it to play out like it did. An injury, missing the entire ACC slate (so no memorable plays against UNC), and coming back at the very the end of the season when there wasn't enough time to regain team chemistry.

[Bluedog]

Maybe I'm saying something controversial, but our defense with Kyrie probably would not have been nearly as good that season. Obviously, Kyrie's offense was (and is) otherwordly, but I don't think it's so obvious that we would have been better than 16-3 in the ACC. In fact, I predict we would have been worse. Nolan would have had to guard 2's and we wouldn't have been as versatile. As evidenced by the NCAA tournament, we barely held on to beat Michigan and then got destroyed by Zona -- it's hard to predict how things would have gone down. (Of course, if we had a whole season to practice as that unit, we may have worked on the kinks and been better in the end, but impossible to go back in time and play out both scenarios. Certainly our potential with Kyrie was higher so of course I'd love to have had him on the court for the entire season. But I don't think placing him where they did is totally unreasonable considering how much time he was out.)

[Troublemaker]

Maybe I'm saying something controversial, but our defense with Kyrie probably would not have been nearly as good that season. Obviously, Kyrie's offense was (and is) otherwordly, but I don't think it's so obvious that we would have been better than 16-3 in the ACC. In fact, I predict we would have been worse.

Except Kyrie had been a very good defender until his injury, from what I recall. He absolutely dominated a couple of star seniors in Jacob Pullen and Kalin Lucas. Dominated them on both ends.

Keep in mind that 2011 was not only pre-expansion, it was also pre-NCAA cleaning up handchecking and emphasizing freedom of movement. Duke defense was not really an issue back then. Kyrie would've continued to be fine on defense (more than fine really). And if you're basing this criticism on his NBA rep, keep in mind that lots of NBA players were good defenders in college but poor defenders in the league; it's just a much higher level of basketball. Russell Westbrook really struggles on defense but was a terror at UCLA as I recall. Karl Anthony Towns is not nearly as good on defense as he was in college. Etc.

I just don't see how Duke would've been worse with Kyrie on the team.

Nolan would have had to guard 2's and we wouldn't have been as versatile.

2011 accomplished all it did with Seth Curry guarding 2s (after Kyrie's injury). Why would Nolan have been worse? In college, small wings aren't the detriment that they are in the NBA. As the 2015 Duke team showed.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

Yeah that was my point. Other folks played through it. Kyrie didn’t. What am I missing?

I think you're missing how your point is inevitably going to be interpreted.The other point you missed is that Duke didn't have a list of creampuffs pre ACC.

[lotusland]

I think you're missing how your point is inevitably going to be interpreted.The other point you missed is that Duke didn't have a list of creampuffs pre ACC.

Seems like an average Duke non-Conference schedule. K State, MI State and Butler I think we’re all ranked. Without doing extensive research that doesn’t seem way more difficult. Probably there were no true road games. Either way Kyrie was injured at the end of the Butler game so he missed most of the season and never played an ACC Road game much less 2 ACC games a week. There is a reason we differentiate the regular season schedule by Conference and non-Conference in terms of lineup, MPG, etc. because there is a huge difference. I’ve seen our Freshmen, including the OADs struggle some making the transition. For instance this year’s group played poorly and lost to a pretty bad BC team in their first conference game which was also the first true Road game. I’m assuming Kyrie would also have struggled some and have a few bad games by his lofty standards. Maybe I’m wrong but we’ll never know for sure.


Regular Season
Sun, Nov 14*
5:00 pm, ESPNU No. 1 Princeton
CBE Classic W 97–60 1–0
Cameron Indoor Stadium (9,314)
Durham, NC
Tue, Nov 16*
7:30 pm, ESPNU No. 1 Miami (Ohio)
CBE Classic W 79–45 2–0
Cameron Indoor Stadium (9,314)
Durham, NC
Fri, Nov 19*
8:30 pm, ESPN3.com No. 1 Colgate W 110–58 3–0
Cameron Indoor Stadium (9,314)
Durham, NC
Mon, Nov 22*
7:30 pm, ESPN2 No. 1 vs. Marquette
CBE Classic – Semifinals W 82–77 4–0
Sprint Center (N/A)
Kansas City, MO
Tue, Nov 23*
10:15 pm, ESPN No. 1 vs. No. 4 Kansas State
CBE Classic – Championship W 82–68 5–0
Sprint Center (18,696)
Kansas City, MO
Sat, Nov 27*
4:00 pm, FSN No. 1 vs. Oregon W 98–71 6–0
Rose Garden (12,914)
Portland, OR
Wed, Dec 1*
9:30 pm, ESPN No. 1 No. 6 Michigan State
ACC – Big Ten Challenge W 84–79 7–0
Cameron Indoor Stadium (9,314)
Durham, NC
Sat, Dec 4*
3:15 pm, ESPN No. 1 vs. Butler
CARQUEST Auto Parts Classic W 82–70 8–0
Izod Center (14,215)
East Rutherford, NJ
Wed, Dec 8*
9:00 pm, ESPN2 No. 1 Bradley W 83–48 9–0
Cameron Indoor Stadium (9,314)
Durham, NC
Sat, Dec 11*
12:00 pm, CBS No. 1 Saint Louis W 84–47 10–0
Cameron Indoor Stadium (9,314)
Durham, NC
Mon, Dec 20*
7:00 pm, FSS No. 1 Elon W 98–72 11–0
Cameron Indoor Stadium (9,314)
Durham, NC
Wed, Dec 29*
7:00 pm, ESPNU No. 1 at UNC Greensboro W 108–62 12–0
Greensboro Coliseum (22,178)
Greensboro, NC
Sun, Jan 2
7:45 pm, FSN No. 1 Miami (Florida) W 74–63 13–0 (1–0)
Cameron Indoor Stadium (9,314)
Durham, NC
Wed, Jan 5*
7:00 pm, ESPN2 No. 1 UAB W 85–64 14–0
Cameron Indoor Stadium (9,314)
Durham, NC
Sun, Jan 9
8:00 pm, FSN No. 1 Maryland
Duke–Maryland rivalry W 71–64 15–0 (2–0)
Cameron Indoor Stadium (9,314)
Durham, NC
Wed, Jan 12
9:00 pm, ESPN No. 1 at Florida State L 61–66 15–1 (2–1)
Donald L. Tucker Center (12,100)
Tallahassee, FL
Sat, Jan 15
2:00 pm, ESPN No. 1 Virginia W 76–60 16–1 (3–1)
Cameron Indoor Stadium (9,314)
Durham, NC
Wed, Jan 19
7:00 pm, ESPN No. 4 at NC State W 92–78 17–1 (4–1)
RBC Center (19,387)
Raleigh, NC
Sat, Jan 22
4:00 pm, ESPN No. 4 at Wake Forest W 83–59 18–1 (5–1)
LJVM Coliseum (14,107)
Winston-Salem, NC
Thu, Jan 27
8:00 pm, Raycom No. 3 Boston College W 84–68 19–1 (6–1)
Cameron Indoor Stadium (9,314)
Durham, NC
Sun, Jan 30*
1:00 pm, CBS No. 3 at St. John's L 78–93 19–2
Madison Square Garden (19,353)
New York, NY
Wed, Feb 2
9:00 pm, ESPN No. 5 at Maryland
Duke–Maryland rivalry W 80–62 20–2 (7–1)
Comcast Center (17,950)
College Park, MD
Sat, Feb 5
6:00 pm, ESPN No. 5 NC State W 76–52 21–2 (8–1)
Cameron Indoor Stadium (9,314)
Durham, NC
Wed, Feb 9
9:00 pm, ESPN No. 5 No. 20 North Carolina
Carolina–Duke rivalry W 79–73 22–2 (9–1)
Cameron Indoor Stadium (9,314)
Durham, NC
Sun, Feb 13
6:45 pm, FSN No. 5 at Miami (Florida) W 81–71 23–2 (10–1)
BankUnited Center (7,972)
Coral Gables, FL
Wed, Feb 16
7:00 pm, ESPN No. 5 at Virginia W 56–41 24–2 (11–1)
John Paul Jones Arena (14,149)
Charlottesville, VA
Sun, Feb 20
7:45 pm, FSN No. 5 Georgia Tech W 79–57 25–2 (12–1)
Cameron Indoor Stadium (9,314)
Durham, NC
Wed, Feb 23*
7:00 pm, ESPN2 No. 1 No. 24 Temple W 78–61 26–2
Cameron Indoor Stadium (9,314)
Durham, NC
Sat, Feb 26
9:00 pm, ESPN No. 1 at Virginia Tech
College GameDay L 60–64 26–3 (12–2)
Cassell Coliseum (9,847)
Blacksburg, VA
Wed, Mar 2
9:00 pm, ESPN No. 4 Clemson W 70–59 27–3 (13–2)
Cameron Indoor Stadium (9,314)
Durham, NC
Sat, Mar 5
8:00 pm, CBS No. 4 at No. 13 North Carolina
Carolina–Duke rivalry L 67–81 27–4 (13–3)
Dean Smith Center (21,750)
Chapel Hill, NC

[HereBeforeCoachK]

Yeah, after tearing up the NBA from day one, those ACC road games would've been too hard for Kyrie to handle....

[NSDukeFan]

Yeah, after tearing up the NBA from day one, those ACC road games would've been too hard for Kyrie to handle...

I agree with lotusland that there is a reasonable chance Kyrie would have had some struggles in conference play, especially on the road. My impression is that Duke often struggles after exams and Christmas break and needs a bit of time to get their groove back. It seems to me almost every year we are waiting to see if the current Duke team will learn how to win close games and road games in conference play. Mind you, I think if Kyrie struggled, it would have been somewhat relative, and that team still may have been able to go undefeated with the two senior all-ACC players he had with him. His injury wasn't as bad as Giles' season long struggles and the other injuries that year that derailed the other potential undefeated team. I was hoping Giles' health would return and he would be Bagley (more of a defensive version) before Bagley. Now, I just hope he gets healthy so he can show what kind of a player he can be.

[jv001]

Seems like an average Duke non-Conference schedule. K State, MI State and Butler I think we’re all ranked. Without doing extensive research that doesn’t seem way more difficult. Probably there were no true road games. Either way Kyrie was injured at the end of the Butler game so he missed most of the season and never played an ACC Road game much less 2 ACC games a week. There is a reason we differentiate the regular season schedule by Conference and non-Conference in terms of lineup, MPG, etc. because there is a huge difference. I’ve seen our Freshmen, including the OADs struggle some making the transition. For instance this year’s group played poorly and lost to a pretty bad BC team in their first conference game which was also the first true Road game. I’m assuming Kyrie would also have struggled some and have a few bad games by his lofty standards. Maybe I’m wrong but we’ll never know for sure.


Regular Season
Sun, Nov 14*
5:00 pm, ESPNU No. 1 Princeton
CBE Classic W 97–60 1–0
Cameron Indoor Stadium (9,314)
Durham, NC
Tue, Nov 16*
7:30 pm, ESPNU No. 1 Miami (Ohio)
CBE Classic W 79–45 2–0
Cameron Indoor Stadium (9,314)
Durham, NC
Fri, Nov 19*
8:30 pm, ESPN3.com No. 1 Colgate W 110–58 3–0
Cameron Indoor Stadium (9,314)
Durham, NC
Mon, Nov 22*
7:30 pm, ESPN2 No. 1 vs. Marquette
CBE Classic – Semifinals W 82–77 4–0
Sprint Center (N/A)
Kansas City, MO
Tue, Nov 23*
10:15 pm, ESPN No. 1 vs. No. 4 Kansas State
CBE Classic – Championship W 82–68 5–0
Sprint Center (18,696)
Kansas City, MO
Sat, Nov 27*
4:00 pm, FSN No. 1 vs. Oregon W 98–71 6–0
Rose Garden (12,914)
Portland, OR
Wed, Dec 1*
9:30 pm, ESPN No. 1 No. 6 Michigan State
ACC – Big Ten Challenge W 84–79 7–0
Cameron Indoor Stadium (9,314)
Durham, NC
Sat, Dec 4*
3:15 pm, ESPN No. 1 vs. Butler
CARQUEST Auto Parts Classic W 82–70 8–0
Izod Center (14,215)
East Rutherford, NJ
Wed, Dec 8*
9:00 pm, ESPN2 No. 1 Bradley W 83–48 9–0
Cameron Indoor Stadium (9,314)
Durham, NC
Sat, Dec 11*
12:00 pm, CBS No. 1 Saint Louis W 84–47 10–0
Cameron Indoor Stadium (9,314)
Durham, NC
Mon, Dec 20*
7:00 pm, FSS No. 1 Elon W 98–72 11–0
Cameron Indoor Stadium (9,314)
Durham, NC
Wed, Dec 29*
7:00 pm, ESPNU No. 1 at UNC Greensboro W 108–62 12–0
Greensboro Coliseum (22,178)
Greensboro, NC
Sun, Jan 2
7:45 pm, FSN No. 1 Miami (Florida) W 74–63 13–0 (1–0)
Cameron Indoor Stadium (9,314)
Durham, NC
Wed, Jan 5*
7:00 pm, ESPN2 No. 1 UAB W 85–64 14–0
Cameron Indoor Stadium (9,314)
Durham, NC
Sun, Jan 9
8:00 pm, FSN No. 1 Maryland
Duke–Maryland rivalry W 71–64 15–0 (2–0)
Cameron Indoor Stadium (9,314)
Durham, NC
Wed, Jan 12
9:00 pm, ESPN No. 1 at Florida State L 61–66 15–1 (2–1)
Donald L. Tucker Center (12,100)
Tallahassee, FL
Sat, Jan 15
2:00 pm, ESPN No. 1 Virginia W 76–60 16–1 (3–1)
Cameron Indoor Stadium (9,314)
Durham, NC
Wed, Jan 19
7:00 pm, ESPN No. 4 at NC State W 92–78 17–1 (4–1)
RBC Center (19,387)
Raleigh, NC
Sat, Jan 22
4:00 pm, ESPN No. 4 at Wake Forest W 83–59 18–1 (5–1)
LJVM Coliseum (14,107)
Winston-Salem, NC
Thu, Jan 27
8:00 pm, Raycom No. 3 Boston College W 84–68 19–1 (6–1)
Cameron Indoor Stadium (9,314)
Durham, NC
Sun, Jan 30*
1:00 pm, CBS No. 3 at St. John's L 78–93 19–2
Madison Square Garden (19,353)
New York, NY
Wed, Feb 2
9:00 pm, ESPN No. 5 at Maryland
Duke–Maryland rivalry W 80–62 20–2 (7–1)
Comcast Center (17,950)
College Park, MD
Sat, Feb 5
6:00 pm, ESPN No. 5 NC State W 76–52 21–2 (8–1)
Cameron Indoor Stadium (9,314)
Durham, NC
Wed, Feb 9
9:00 pm, ESPN No. 5 No. 20 North Carolina
Carolina–Duke rivalry W 79–73 22–2 (9–1)
Cameron Indoor Stadium (9,314)
Durham, NC
Sun, Feb 13
6:45 pm, FSN No. 5 at Miami (Florida) W 81–71 23–2 (10–1)
BankUnited Center (7,972)
Coral Gables, FL
Wed, Feb 16
7:00 pm, ESPN No. 5 at Virginia W 56–41 24–2 (11–1)
John Paul Jones Arena (14,149)
Charlottesville, VA
Sun, Feb 20
7:45 pm, FSN No. 5 Georgia Tech W 79–57 25–2 (12–1)
Cameron Indoor Stadium (9,314)
Durham, NC
Wed, Feb 23*
7:00 pm, ESPN2 No. 1 No. 24 Temple W 78–61 26–2
Cameron Indoor Stadium (9,314)
Durham, NC
Sat, Feb 26
9:00 pm, ESPN No. 1 at Virginia Tech
College GameDay L 60–64 26–3 (12–2)
Cassell Coliseum (9,847)
Blacksburg, VA
Wed, Mar 2
9:00 pm, ESPN No. 4 Clemson W 70–59 27–3 (13–2)
Cameron Indoor Stadium (9,314)
Durham, NC
Sat, Mar 5
8:00 pm, CBS No. 4 at No. 13 North Carolina
Carolina–Duke rivalry L 67–81 27–4 (13–3)
Dean Smith Center (21,750)
Chapel Hill, NC

I don't know about the freshman wall hitting Kyrie, but if it hadn't, I don't see Duke losing any of those games. Now that is with Kyrie playing like he did before the injury. He was that good. Don't believe me, ask Coach K and LaBron. GoDuke!