Duval officially declares for the draft.

[kshepinthehouse]

You're still assuming that the $3 million is guaranteed. It's not if you're a second-rounder.

Am I going to leave my full-ride scholarship at age 20 to go on a job interview where I may have a 50/50 shot of getting the job?

You're also discounting the difference between holding a college degree at age 22 than holding one at age 28-32. You can go back to school after a career in Europe, but you better have spent that time building up your network and figuring out what you want to do when you get out. If you're focused solely on being a basketball player, you're going to find yourself retired from playing basketball in your early 30s and just entering the workforce.

What workforce do you think the average basketball player enters in their early 30s? There probably isn’t one that would make him as much money as he could make by simply investing the money he makes in the NBA. Its not like most of these guys become high school algebra teachers when they leave professional basketball.

[bludevil_33]

Except the value of a college degree is nil these days. How many employers are going to want to hire you based on a degree?

This is demonstrably untrue.

No one hires solely based off a degree. But lack of a degree absolutely makes candidates in many fields non-starters.

[bludevil_33]

What workforce do you think the average basketball player enters in their early 30s? There probably isn’t one that would make him as much money as he could make by simply investing the money he makes in the NBA. Its not like most of these guys become high school algebra teachers when they leave professional basketball.

Again, 2nd rounders are not guaranteed a contract. If Trevon was a projected lottery pick, we wouldn't even be having this conversation. There is more risk involved in being a mid- to low-second-round draft pick as compared to a lottery pick.

That risk is the whole point. In general, it's more risky than staying in school. Now, I'm hedging that with the fact that there's probably a mountain of information out there (scouting reports, Duke's NBA connections, etc) that are telling Trevon his chances are better than 50/50, so who knows?

[dchen09]

This is demonstrably untrue.

No one hires solely based off a degree. But lack of a degree absolutely makes candidates in many fields non-starters.

You're point (and correct me if I'm wrong) is that unless he gets a first round guarantee, him getting a free Duke education is less risk than a potential 2nd round pick. My point is the degree itself is not worth much, particularly if he's going to take a few years off pursuing his dream of playing basketball professionally anyways. Even if he doesn't get a first round guarantee, he will likely make more as a failed 2nd round pick or playing in Europe than he will from getting a degree from Duke. The reason why is because the average European salary is 60-100k. Brandon Jennings got $1.2 Mil. That money more than pays for 3 additional years of college (even at Duke).

However, the benefits of a Duke degree is all the work experience you get with it, not the training you get in the classroom. If you told me he will come back, but not play basketball, I wouldn't argue with you at all. But you're not. He won't be getting all the real academic benefits of a Duke degree. Furthermore, your link is an average of all majors. What we know is that Duval is not going to be majoring in any of the quantitative fields which tend to yield have the biggest increase in earning potential. Even if he did, no one is going to be hiring him based on a education he would have completed years in the past. Him leaving college a year earlier, even if he were to fail out of the NBA means he still starts earning his at minimum $60k a year salary a year earlier and it puts him in a position where he can pay for a degree straight out of his own pockets that is more relevant to what he wants to do and he can put more time into properly training for his next career.

[Furniture]

Oh gosh yawn...

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Oh gosh yawn...

It's offseason, brah. Forget about it.

On topic...

This is the time of year where I allow myself to believe that "no news is good news," and that maybe those Duke players who haven't announced are sticking around.

Yes, I am delusional.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

It's offseason, brah. Forget about it.

On topic...

This is the time of year where I allow myself to believe that "no news is good news," and that maybe those Duke players who haven't announced are sticking around.

Yes, I am delusional.

... And that didn't last long

[Furniture]

It's offseason, brah. Forget about it.

On topic...

This is the time of year where I allow myself to believe that "no news is good news," and that maybe those Duke players who haven't announced are sticking around.

Yes, I am delusional.

You should have posted this in a ‘I’m not going to jinx it’ thread...

[Rudy]

I saw this article today and found this thread to attach it to. Someone in the thread said Duval was in a tough spot, knowing that Tre Jones was coming in the next year. Looking at Jones’ stats in his two years, I wondered if his progress would have been delayed if Duval had stayed and (probably) began the year as the starting PG. Jones clearly had a good freshman year and a stellar sophomore year, so staying likely improved his standing in the NBA draft to take place next month.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/...p-dreams-alive

[uh_no]

I saw this article today and found this thread to attach it to. Someone in the thread said Duval was in a tough spot, knowing that Tre Jones was coming in the next year. Looking at Jones’ stats in his two years, I wondered if his progress would have been delayed if Duval had stayed and (probably) began the year as the starting PG. Jones clearly had a good freshman year and a stellar sophomore year, so staying likely improved his standing in the NBA draft to take place next month.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/...p-dreams-alive

The same attitude that gave him a rocky year at duke was probably the same attitude that sealed his fate. His dad put it best:

I think he probably could've been a little bit more focused. Coming from being a 5-star athlete, sometimes you think that's enough. Every level is harder, gets harder and harder.

There are very few freshmen I'm not sad to see go, and he was one of them. He showed no humility, no want to play the team game, and K had to bench him at least twice during the year, and explicitly called him out for not doing what he was told. I recall he had some nasty words for Duke afterwards as well. THAT SAID, it is those people that probably MOST need more time in the program, so for his sake, I'm sorry that he turned down that opportunity.

I am glad, however, that he's finally seemed to get the does of humility that it sometimes takes. I think having to compete with Tre would have been EXACTLY the thing that would have helped him...in his own words on being a reserve player:

It can be real easy to get upset and mad and say, 'I should be playing' and have a bad attitude. I feel that was a big stepping stone for me as a player, because I never had to do that. For me to make do with what I had this season, I did a good job for myself, and I grew.

Good on him for finally learning that lesson. I wish him the best.

[UrinalCake]

I saw this article today and found this thread to attach it to. Someone in the thread said Duval was in a tough spot, knowing that Tre Jones was coming in the next year. Looking at Jones’ stats in his two years, I wondered if his progress would have been delayed if Duval had stayed and (probably) began the year as the starting PG. Jones clearly had a good freshman year and a stellar sophomore year, so staying likely improved his standing in the NBA draft to take place next month.

First off, I think Duval would have been a phenomenal fit on the Zion team. He excelled in transition, but didn't get to show that much because the Bagley/Carter duo forced us into being a half court team that played zone D. With a year under his belt, I would have expected a huge jump from Duval had he chosen to stay. He always had the physical tools but needed the game to slow down and perhaps returning for another year would have humbled him enough to focus more on the intangibles.

As to how it would have affected Jones, he would have had his playing time cut down for sure. I don't imagine he and Duval would have shared the court much, as the combined three point shooting of those two would have been chilling (though I supposed Duval may have improved in the same way that Jones improved from his freshman to sophomore year). Jones's defense would have earned him plenty of minutes though. He definitely would have still stayed for his sophomore year, and probably would have made the same jump from that point.

[Billy Dat]

Thanks for posting this article. I root for all our guys to do well after they leave and Tricky makes it sound like he's accepting responsibility for his part in not yet making an NBA roster.

Sometimes these things are very simple, you can't make an NBA team as a guard if you can't shoot. Fix that and he'll get a chance to get a chance and then he's got to perform when he gets it.

Ben McLemore is a good comp for him. It's night and day in that McLemore was a lottery pick and logged many years in the NBA before being let go but he kept working, sewed up the holes in his game, accepted what his limited role could be and tried to "star" in it, and now he seems like he's back until years rob his skills. I feel like they are the same type of player - crazy athletic guards who can't shoot. McLemore is now over 40% on 3s and defends like his next meal depends on it, because it does!

Good luck Tricky! I'll always remember that 20 and 6 against Kansas in the Elite Eight.

[DukieInBrasil]

Thanks for posting this article. I root for all our guys to do well after they leave and Tricky makes it sound like he's accepting responsibility for his part in not yet making an NBA roster.
Sometimes these things are very simple, you can't make an NBA team as a guard if you can't shoot. Fix that and he'll get a chance to get a chance and then he's got to perform when he gets it.
Ben McLemore is a good comp for him. It's night and day in that McLemore was a lottery pick and logged many years in the NBA before being let go but he kept working, sewed up the holes in his game, accepted what his limited role could be and tried to "star" in it, and now he seems like he's back until years rob his skills. I feel like they are the same type of player - crazy athletic guards who can't shoot. McLemore is now over 40% on 3s and defends like his next meal depends on it, because it does!
Good luck Tricky! I'll always remember that 20 and 6 against Kansas in the Elite Eight.

Trevon actually has played in a couple of NBA games, but due to COVID (among other things) didn't make one during the previous season. I don't have a crystal ball so i don't know if he made headway towards making the NBA the coming season, but having not made an NBA appearance last year doesn't bode well. Your phrase "to star" in a limited role sounds exactly like what Duval needs to do, and it sounds like he may have made the mental adjustment necessary for him see that as his path back to the NBA.

[nmduke2001]

Thanks for posting this article. I root for all our guys to do well after they leave and Tricky makes it sound like he's accepting responsibility for his part in not yet making an NBA roster.

Sometimes these things are very simple, you can't make an NBA team as a guard if you can't shoot. Fix that and he'll get a chance to get a chance and then he's got to perform when he gets it.

Ben McLemore is a good comp for him. It's night and day in that McLemore was a lottery pick and logged many years in the NBA before being let go but he kept working, sewed up the holes in his game, accepted what his limited role could be and tried to "star" in it, and now he seems like he's back until years rob his skills. I feel like they are the same type of player - crazy athletic guards who can't shoot. McLemore is now over 40% on 3s and defends like his next meal depends on it, because it does!

Good luck Tricky! I'll always remember that 20 and 6 against Kansas in the Elite Eight.

Duval struggles in his shooting and that will hinder his ability to play in the league because he isn't as good as Russell Westbrook (who he was often compared to) in other parts of the game. If you could combine Duval and Andre Dawkins, you'd have one heck of a player.

Dre is still one of my favorited Duke players ever. I was a little surprised that he didn't get more of a chance after having a lot of really big games in the G-League. He definitely could have filled a role like Duncan Robinson did in Miami.

[rsvman]

Thanks for posting this article. I root for all our guys to do well after they leave and Tricky makes it sound like he's accepting responsibility for his part in not yet making an NBA roster.

Sometimes these things are very simple, you can't make an NBA team as a guard if you can't shoot. Fix that and he'll get a chance to get a chance and then he's got to perform when he gets it.

Ben McLemore is a good comp for him. It's night and day in that McLemore was a lottery pick and logged many years in the NBA before being let go but he kept working, sewed up the holes in his game, accepted what his limited role could be and tried to "star" in it, and now he seems like he's back until years rob his skills. I feel like they are the same type of player - crazy athletic guards who can't shoot. McLemore is now over 40% on 3s and defends like his next meal depends on it, because it does!

Good luck Tricky! I'll always remember that 20 and 6 against Kansas in the Elite Eight.

Sorry, but his idiotic try for a steal left a Kansas player wide open for a three that made it possible for us to lose that game. If he had stayed with his man, we would've been in the Final Four. 20 and 6 is great, and all, but when push came to shove he made a HUGE bone-headed play that ended up costing us the game.

And I liked the guy. Still do. But we have to be honest here. I guess you could argue that without his 20 and 6 we wouldn't have had a game to give away, and I suppose that's fair.

[UrinalCake]

That gamble for the steal was bad. I don’t know if you can say it singlehandedly cost us the game, but it was frustrating for sure. I also remember the end of the UVA game in Cameron where he committed a bad turnover in the final minute trying to pitch it the length of the floor.

On the other hand he started off the season with 10 assists and 0 turnovers against MSU in an upset win where Bagley barely played. He set up Bagley for multiple dunks against UNC to give us that huge comeback win in Cameron. And he played through a sprained ankle against UNC in the rematch. So he had his moments.

[johnb]

I’m tempted to say Duval’s comparables appear to be Derryck Thornton and Rasheed Sulaimon, since all of them were very athletic guys who didn’t seem to accept Duke coaching but who could probably play pick-up games with nba players and become convinced they were ready.

In this, they strike me as different from guys like Nolan or DeMarcus Nelson who didn’t make the league because, well, it’s just very difficult if you’re not freakishly tall.

I went looking for 2 seconds online, and didn’t find great data, but the consensus seems to be that only 1% of men are 6’4” and that there are only a few thousand Americans—of all ages—who are 6’9” (though that’s without shoes and creative accounting).

[jv001]

I’m tempted to say Duval’s comparables appear to be Derryck Thornton and Rasheed Sulaimon, since all of them were very athletic guys who didn’t seem to accept Duke coaching but who could probably play pick-up games with nba players and become convinced they were ready.

In this, they strike me as different from guys like Nolan or DeMarcus Nelson who didn’t make the league because, well, it’s just very difficult if you’re not freakishly tall.

I went looking for 2 seconds online, and didn’t find great data, but the consensus seems to be that only 1% of men are 6’4” and that there are only a few thousand Americans—of all ages—who are 6’9” (though that’s without shoes and creative accounting).

I know you used the word "tempted" and I guess that was because Duval was not as good an outside shooter as Thornton and Sulaimon. Otherwise those are two good comparisons.

GoDuke!

[sagegrouse]

That gamble for the steal was bad. I don’t know if you can say it singlehandedly cost us the game, but it was frustrating for sure. I also remember the end of the UVA game in Cameron where he committed a bad turnover in the final minute trying to pitch it the length of the floor.

On the other hand he started off the season with 10 assists and 0 turnovers against MSU in an upset win where Bagley barely played. He set up Bagley for multiple dunks against UNC to give us that huge comeback win in Cameron. And he played through a sprained ankle against UNC in the rematch. So he had his moments.

Against Kansas, we had a three-point lead AND the ball with under a minute to play. How did we not win that game? Wendell Carter makes a two-foot shot? We're home. Wendell doesn't clang it, so that there's a scrum for the rebound, limiting KU's chance for a run-out? We're home. Duval doesn't go for the steal? We have better defense and no clear shot at a three? We win. Grayson has the ball at the end, and he comes through like so many other times? We win. But the ball bounces out, and the game remains tied.

In OT there is a clear charge into Wendell Carter, who has four fouls, while is Duke ahead. Clear, I said. Call the charge? We win. Wendell never moved and he is DQed.

Not that I remember that game.

[rsvman]

Against Kansas, we had a three-point lead AND the ball with under a minute to play. How did we not win that game? Wendell Carter makes a two-foot shot? We're home. Wendell doesn't clang it, so that there's a scrum for the rebound, limiting KU's chance for a run-out? We're home. Duval doesn't go for the steal? We have better defense and no clear shot at a three? We win. Grayson has the ball at the end, and he comes through like so many other times? We win. But the ball bounces out, and the game remains tied.

In OT there is a clear charge into Wendell Carter, who has four fouls, while is Duke ahead. Clear, I said. Call the charge? We win. Wendell never moved and he is DQed.

Not that I remember that game.

Still too soon.

Yeah, the charge call was egregious. That single call should have put to rest the mantra that "Duke gets all the calls." Apparently we don't. (And yes, I'm aware that it actually somehow DIDN'T put that old canard to rest.)

Personally, I think it was a mistake to put the game in Grayson's hands at the end of regulation. Too obvious, too predictable. I really liked Coach K's approach at Florida State, screening for your best scorer inside, drawing all the defenders there, and then passing it to somebody else, who hits the game winner from the wing. Very hard to defend. I really wish he had taken a similar approach in the Kansas Elite Eight game. Bygones are bygones, though, as they say.