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  1. #1

    How to Pay NCAA Revenue Athletes

    In an effort to consolidate the discussion over paying NCAA athletes, I'm creating this thread. Hopefully, this will clean up the Yahoo Sports Allegations thread and some others - I admit that I've been party to sullying that thread and others trying to come up with creative solutions.

    What I hope is that this thread is NOT for the discussion of whether or not paying players is a good idea - someone else can create a thread specifically for that if they like - but rather to come up with creative solutions that would make a feasible system for players to share in some of the revenue they create for their schools and the NCAA.

    Some ideas that have been kicked around on other threads:

    - Allow players to collect a share of their jerseys or other items sold with their explicit likeness

    - Allow players to sign endorsement contracts with companies while playing NCAA basketball

    - Allow boosters to offer money (legally!) to players attending the school they support

    - Allow players to sign with agents, and agents to front them money while playing college ball

    Let's start a discussion on the merits of these ideas and any others you might have, including predicting the potential downside of such systems. Maybe we here on DBR can reinvent the wheel!
    Let's go Duke!

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Boca Grande Florida
    1) Schools license out logo’s and rights to represent them into a separate entity. The AD becomes the GM, basically, of the new, separate from the school, entity.

    This would not only continue ongoing revenue for the schools, but would also allow pay to players and deals for endorsements. Schools could negotiate a % of player revenues from their endorsements.

    This single action would not only continue to create revenue for the schools, but would also allow players to get fair market value.


    Nothing else needs to change...except wave goodby to the NCAA.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
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    Summerville ,S.C.
    I absolutely agree wheat.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
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    Northwest Indiana
    Quote Originally Posted by wavedukefan70s View Post
    I absolutely agree wheat.
    Ummm I don't think that's allowed within a 4 day window leading up to any game between us and them.

  5. #5
    Signing, negotiating, accepting offers...

    It seems that would take a lot of time and be a distraction to a young person in college.

    Give the players an equal allowance that would keep even the least talented and most financially distressed enough money for essentials and some leftover for pocket money , for dates, pizza, movies and etc.

    I can't think of a better way to destroy a team than to start rewarding certain players on their future merits...

    hud

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
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    Boca Grande Florida
    Quote Originally Posted by hudlow View Post
    Signing, negotiating, accepting offers...

    It seems that would take a lot of time and be a distraction to a young person in college.

    Give the players an equal allowance that would keep even the least talented and most financially distressed enough money for essentials and some leftover for pocket money , for dates, pizza, movies and etc.

    I can't think of a better way to destroy a team than to start rewarding certain players on their future merits...

    hud
    As long as people are willing to watch the content that the players deliver, a free and open market that values their skill is the only way to go. The least talented players will be pulled up by paying the best and most deserving.

    Players will adjust their personal expectations on pay, just like they do when they find themselves on the bench watching a better player play today.

  7. #7
    A problem I forsee with payments from agents and/or companies is attempting to influence playing time or "shutting down" a player at the end of a season. We have seen it in bowl games. I can imagine an agent with an investment in a player urging a kid to stay out of late season games.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15 View Post
    A problem I forsee with payments from agents and/or companies is attempting to influence playing time or "shutting down" a player at the end of a season. We have seen it in bowl games. I can imagine an agent with an investment in a player urging a kid to stay out of late season games.
    I see the issue you describe of an athlete sitting out to be primarily a football issue and I don't think that will change. For a few reasons.

    1) The risk of injury in football is significant.
    2) Football has the shortest average career length of any sport. (NFL 3.5 years, NBA, 4.8 years, MLB 5.6 years)
    3) Aside from four teams and three games, the bowl games in college football are meaningless in terms of winning a championship.
    4) The kids that are sitting out are first round draft picks with nothing left to prove. For example, State's Bradley Chubb sat out our bowl game this year. You just have to look at his games against ND, FSU, Louisville and Clemson to see how he's going to play against the top competition. What is one more game going to do for his draft status? Absolutely nothing.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15 View Post
    A problem I forsee with payments from agents and/or companies is attempting to influence playing time or "shutting down" a player at the end of a season. We have seen it in bowl games. I can imagine an agent with an investment in a player urging a kid to stay out of late season games.
    As Kyrie showed- be awesome for a few games and you can still be a high pick. For example, Bagley at the beginning of the season looked unstoppable. He is getting figured out. The longer you play- to more the weaknesses are exposed.

    You could just have all revenue generating athletes have a different compensation packages. Tuition + board+ books + travel + spending money vs Tuition + board. Then you can divide the pie in different ways to favor the revenue generating athletes. There should be a way to make this fair with Title IX. The institution has a "scholarship/compensation" budget and has to fairly distribute- some will get more some will get less. I would keep agents out for the concern raised above- they will not have the teams' interest at heart.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Greenville, SC
    Quote Originally Posted by Wheat/"/"/" View Post
    As long as people are willing to watch the content that the players deliver, a free and open market that values their skill is the only way to go. The least talented players will be pulled up by paying the best and most deserving.

    Players will adjust their personal expectations on pay, just like they do when they find themselves on the bench watching a better player play today.
    A free and open market is a nice ideal, but in practice does it really work? But that's a separate question for another thread I suspect.

    In the case of college athletes if someone gets significantly more money from the pot then someone must get significantly less money. Do all athletes keep the same basic benefits they get now and the stars get extra? If so where does the extra money come from? Non-revenue sports, coaches' salaries, other?

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Washington DC
    I posted this in a thread a while back, but my concept would be:

    1. Allow the players to hire agents. It's crazy to withhold professional representation and advice from them
    2. Allow them the rights to their likeness so they can sign individual marketing deals, with a portion of the revenue shared with the school. So whenever the school sells a Grayson Allen jersey, Grayson and Duke share in the proceeds; if Jack White gets sponsored by Outback Steakhouse he and Duke would share the proceeds.
    3. There needs to be some formal structure to regulate #1 and #2. Certifying agents (can draft off the NBA process) and setting a standard percentage of revenue share common across all schools.
    4. If you want to be a little more restrictive so you don't have Bagley driving a Bentley to class while Mike Buckmire rides his bike, you could put the athlete's money into a trust that pays out a nominal amount while in school (like up to $20k per year) and the rest after 10 years or upon graduation, whichever is first.

    This should avoid any title nine issues since this isn't funded by the schools, and also curtail, if not eliminate, under the table dollars. It can create a bidding war between schools (ie the Kentucky boosters can put together a better package than the NC State boosters), but a) some of that exists today in under the table dollars and "soft dollars" like exposure, and b) this is probably an issue only for a limited number of players. There are LOTS of problems with this so I'm not pretending this is an easy solution, but I think it would be a big step in the right direction.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    New York, NY
    The details are the trickier part. But without getting into the weeds, I think three pillars must be established.

    1) Open Market - it has to be an open market where the best get to profit more and the worst get to profit less
    2) No Direct School Involvement - the $ can't come from schools so as not to impact Title IX and/or non-revenue sports and/or already thin-stretched AD budgets
    3) Transparent and Fair - it has to be very clear to all how the system works and it should not unfairly treat the less "wealthy" players nor unfairly reward the more "wealthy" players

    IMO, the nuance must stay within these three bounds.

    - Chillin

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by mkirsh View Post
    I posted this in a thread a while back, but my concept would be:

    1. Allow the players to hire agents. It's crazy to withhold professional representation and advice from them
    2. Allow them the rights to their likeness so they can sign individual marketing deals, with a portion of the revenue shared with the school. So whenever the school sells a Grayson Allen jersey, Grayson and Duke share in the proceeds; if Jack White gets sponsored by Outback Steakhouse he and Duke would share the proceeds.
    3. There needs to be some formal structure to regulate #1 and #2. Certifying agents (can draft off the NBA process) and setting a standard percentage of revenue share common across all schools.
    4. If you want to be a little more restrictive so you don't have Bagley driving a Bentley to class while Mike Buckmire rides his bike, you could put the athlete's money into a trust that pays out a nominal amount while in school (like up to $20k per year) and the rest after 10 years or upon graduation, whichever is first.

    This should avoid any title nine issues since this isn't funded by the schools, and also curtail, if not eliminate, under the table dollars. It can create a bidding war between schools (ie the Kentucky boosters can put together a better package than the NC State boosters), but a) some of that exists today in under the table dollars and "soft dollars" like exposure, and b) this is probably an issue only for a limited number of players. There are LOTS of problems with this so I'm not pretending this is an easy solution, but I think it would be a big step in the right direction.
    I like the trust idea. NCAA should remove all restrictions on third party payments to players, all payments must however go into this trust. Make the trust have a maximum capped payment of say $2000 a month to the player while they are in school. They can get the rest of the money by either graduating, or declaring that they are foregoing all their remaining college eligibity. Either action would automatically trigger a full payment of whatever remains in the trust.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Cary, NC
    I've thought about the idea of letting players hire agents and make money on their own (endorsements, selling their likeness), without the money coming from the school. In theory this is a good compromise. But in practice I think it would be difficult to regulate. I could see a scenario where a booster says to a recruit, "come to our school and we'll pay you a million dollars do a five second commercial for <insert local business>." There's no way the NCAA could trace who's getting paid legitimately and who's getting money funneled from the schools in ways that are outside the rules.

    I agree that letting players hire agents makes sense. Why shouldn't they have professional representation to help them make these enormous life decisions? But again, once you open that door then it becomes very difficult to regulate what behavior is within the rules and what is outside of it.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by UrinalCake View Post
    I've thought about the idea of letting players hire agents and make money on their own (endorsements, selling their likeness), without the money coming from the school. In theory this is a good compromise. But in practice I think it would be difficult to regulate. I could see a scenario where a booster says to a recruit, "come to our school and we'll pay you a million dollars do a five second commercial for <insert local business>." There's no way the NCAA could trace who's getting paid legitimately and who's getting money funneled from the schools in ways that are outside the rules.

    I agree that letting players hire agents makes sense. Why shouldn't they have professional representation to help them make these enormous life decisions? But again, once you open that door then it becomes very difficult to regulate what behavior is within the rules and what is outside of it.
    If you allow players to be paid then boosters will be part of the equation, you have to make your peace with that. If you can't then might as well stick with the current amateur model.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by UrinalCake View Post
    I've thought about the idea of letting players hire agents and make money on their own (endorsements, selling their likeness), without the money coming from the school. In theory this is a good compromise. But in practice I think it would be difficult to regulate. I could see a scenario where a booster says to a recruit, "come to our school and we'll pay you a million dollars do a five second commercial for <insert local business>." There's no way the NCAA could trace who's getting paid legitimately and who's getting money funneled from the schools in ways that are outside the rules.

    I agree that letting players hire agents makes sense. Why shouldn't they have professional representation to help them make these enormous life decisions? But again, once you open that door then it becomes very difficult to regulate what behavior is within the rules and what is outside of it.
    I have a hard time imagining Coach K on the phone, listening to LeBron James the Second's agent complaining about how his client ought to get more playing time. This is where it falls apart for me: agents doing their job, advocating for more exposure/minutes/shots/starts for their client with college coaches. Or, as I mentioned upthread, an agent for say, Bagley insisting that Bags shut it down before March, having proven himself, to avoid injury risk.

    Don't kid yourself, this is what a good agent would do. It is their job to protect their client.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15 View Post
    I have a hard time imagining Coach K on the phone, listening to LeBron James the Second's agent complaining about how his client ought to get more playing time. This is where it falls apart for me: agents doing their job, advocating for more exposure/minutes/shots/starts for their client with college coaches. Or, as I mentioned upthread, an agent for say, Bagley insisting that Bags shut it down before March, having proven himself, to avoid injury risk.

    Don't kid yourself, this is what a good agent would do. It is their job to protect their client.
    I've read for many people, that one big fear of allowing agents is the basic conflict of interest - agent cares about his client, not the team, i.e. might insist on shutting down the player come March. But how is that any different than agents for NBA stars? Doesn't LeBron's agent care only about LeBron, and not the Cavs? Doesn't Kyrie's agent care only about Kyrie, and not the Celtics? If Marc Gasol was having a stellar season and was due to be a Free Agent at the end of the year, and the Grizzlies were eliminated from playoff contention, wouldn't it be in his agent's best interest to demand that Marc not play the rest of the season, so as not to risk getting injured and ruining his chance at a big new contract?

    Wouldn't the final say about whether to play or sit Bagley, rest with the coaching staff, and not Bagley's agent, regardless of what Bagley's agent is demanding? And I'd have to imagine that the top, top players (the ones for who this scenario would likely play out), would be playing for the top teams with top coaching talent who would be equipped to deal with the demands of agents.

    Also, couldn't we just add additional rules that agents have no say in playing time, coaching scheme, etc. etc. and any evidence of trying to persuade a coach otherwise would result in sanctions or fines and ultimately end with the agent losing the ability to represent NCAA players? I agree, the whole pay the players debate is a complex one, but I don't really see the same fear in allowing agents as others do. It seems there would be ways to prevent what people are afraid of. Also, if an agent is known to demand his players sit, I'm sure coaches wouldn't want any players being represented by those agents, which could also quickly result in the agent having to change his/her way

    Anyways, just my $0.02.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
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    Boca Grande Florida
    Quote Originally Posted by camion View Post
    A free and open market is a nice ideal, but in practice does it really work? But that's a separate question for another thread I suspect.

    In the case of college athletes if someone gets significantly more money from the pot then someone must get significantly less money. Do all athletes keep the same basic benefits they get now and the stars get extra? If so where does the extra money come from? Non-revenue sports, coaches' salaries, other?
    Yes, it really works...at least better than other options. It’s sure not working now for the athletes if you look at their % of the pot thats there.

    First thing I think we have to agree on is it’s all business and there is no “pot” without the athletes. They create the pot...and business does not give participation trophies. Do the job better and receive more of the pot.

    Also we should understand that the “pot” is not guaranteed to be there.
    The pot comes from the everyone willing to pay to watch them, the athletes,...or from ad buyers etc...that want to piggy back on the content the athletes create. If people lose interest...(look at NASCAR these days), the pot gets smaller or goes away.

    Those who get “significantly” less will deserve less...at least according to how
    much the market figures they will contribute to growing the pot.

    That’s “fair market value”.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
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    Summerville ,S.C.
    Quote Originally Posted by thedukelamere View Post
    Ummm I don't think that's allowed within a 4 day window leading up to any game between us and them.
    It's ok .I took the enemy out to dinner last night.we went out to eat for my wife's birthday.my oldest daughter's boyfriend (unc alum)tries to pay for dinner.claims it's for the beating a few weeks ago.i try to pay for the beating that's comming sat, I proclaimed .while we both try to pay.my other daughter's fiance(gamecock alum) sneaks and pays for the whole thing.
    He got tired of hearing us trying to pay he said.i did get the tip though.youngins don't carry cash 😃

  20. #20
    If the OAD candidates want to get paid, they can play overseas for a year. The rest of them should be happy for the scholarship and platform to showcase their skills. If they don't like it, there's the D League.

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