Dakich's comments about Bagley

[Jeffrey]

Do you agree with Dakich's comments about Bagley?

Dakich said:

“Bagley is all about Bagley. Honest to goodness, I can see in 18 minutes why Duke was able to go on a run when he was hurt. You hate to say that about a kid, but he is about himself. He gets the ball. It doesn’t come out. He doesn’t play defense. He’s a terrific talent, don’t get me wrong. But you could see real clear, real fast — and I’ll take all the shots that people want to give me — but you can see that he is about him.”

http://ftw.usatoday.com/2018/02/espn...ege-basketball

I think many here, in a much kinder manner, have said rather similar things. I continue to disagree.

[Wander]

Saying he doesn't play defense is silly. He's had nice stretches of defense this season, and also has weaknesses on defense. Not really different than most of our players in that regard. He could probably stand to pass a little more, though I'm not sure that isn't by design.

Also, I don't think our results in the last 2 games with Bagley are any better or worse than in the 4 previous games without Bagley, so I'm not sure I buy the premise in the first place.

[uh_no]

Also, I don't think our results in the last 2 games with Bagley are any better or worse than in the 4 previous games without Bagley, so I'm not sure I buy the premise in the first place.

The offense has been extremely worse the past two games. It's certainly too early to tell, and I'm skeptical that, bagley is the main problem. Three point shooting is clearly down, but that's ...hit or miss (lolllll). I DO think the spacing changes somewhat and we end up with a tighter lane...and we get tons of turnovers there.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Do you agree with Dakich's comments about Bagley?

Dakich said:

“Bagley is all about Bagley. Honest to goodness, I can see in 18 minutes why Duke was able to go on a run when he was hurt. You hate to say that about a kid, but he is about himself. He gets the ball. It doesn’t come out. He doesn’t play defense. He’s a terrific talent, don’t get me wrong. But you could see real clear, real fast — and I’ll take all the shots that people want to give me — but you can see that he is about him.”

http://ftw.usatoday.com/2018/02/espn...ege-basketball

I think many here, in a much kinder manner, have said rather similar things. I continue to disagree.

Yes, to a degree.

I believe we had better "team" basketball when Bagley was out. I know stats likely won't show it (they will likely show our assist rating was probably the same).

But visually, I liked it better. Whenever the ball went to Bagley, it was a black hole (or at least felt like it). I don't think he's a selfish player; I just think he's been taught like that. But as teams now know how to guard Bagley (1. play amazing denial defense in the post. 2. Double him ASAP when he gets the ball. 3. Double team the post so Bagley doesn't get rebounds), Bagley needs to adjust. And he hasn't.

Listen, this isn't a "I wish Bagley wasn't on our team". I love him on our team! He's an amazing talent. I just wish he read the defense better and didn't always look to score. Yesterday, when VT played Bagley really well, he should have adjusted.

As for his defense, yes, he's not a good defender (expect rebounding). He is the weakest link in the zone. And in M2M, he's a disaster.

[Wander]

The offense has been extremely worse the past two games. It's certainly too early to tell, and I'm skeptical that, bagley is the main problem. Three point shooting is clearly down, but that's ...hit or miss (lolllll). I DO think the spacing changes somewhat and we end up with a tighter lane...and we get tons of turnovers there.

Yeah, but don't you think the horrible offense against Syracuse was just due to our guards missing a ton of relatively open 3 point looks? That was my impression, anyway.

[Jeffrey]

But as teams now know how to guard Bagley (1. play amazing denial defense in the post. 2. Double him ASAP when he gets the ball. 3. Double team the post so Bagley doesn't get rebounds), Bagley needs to adjust. And he hasn't.

I do not believe teams now know how to guard Bagley. Since his return, in the last two games, Bagley has shot 8-9 and 5-9. Do we have anyone else who has shot 72% during the last two games?

[elvis14]

I saw everyone going nuts in the post game thread over Dakich's comments. I think he went too far but take a look around here and read posts from the last 2 weeks and you'll find lots of DBR posts stating that Bagley is not a good defender and that he's a black hole on offense (so is Trent, BTW). I know that I've stated the MBIII doesn't pass and that he's so good that it didn't matter for much of the season but that as teams have figured out how to play him (be very physical and force him to his right) he's been less effective.

My point isn't that I agree or disagree with Dakich but that DD stated the exact same thing that many on here have stated (without using the word selfish). We may not have cared for how far he took it or for his choice of words but I've pretty much read equivalent statements on here for a while. Having Bagley sit out for 4 games was an eye opener for some.

Note that I 100% think we are a better team with MBIII. I'm thrilled that he's on our team. There's no gray area there. I'll take MBIII on my team every day and twice on Sunday.

[Matches]

I agree he's a poor defender, probably the worst among our starting five. He also does a spotty job of blocking out. He gets a lot of rebounds because of his size and hops, but he's not an especially good rebounder, if that makes any sense.

I think he's a terrific offensive player. The league has adjusted to him somewhat, and there are times he could do a better job of passing out of double teams and traps. But overall he's excellent on that end of the floor.

Our spacing is no better without him; that's a myth. When Bagley was out we still had two bigs on the floor most of the time, and Bagley has a better mid-range or perimeter game than either Bolden or DeLaurier.

I think we suffer from "only one ball" syndrome at times on offense, and maybe Bagley being out made that less evident. I'd still rather have more options than fewer.

As I said in the other thread, I think Dakich was way out of line. Even if there was a point buried in there somewhere, he was out of line in the way he made it.

[flyingdutchdevil]

I agree he's a poor defender, probably the worst among our starting five. He also does a spotty job of blocking out. He gets a lot of rebounds because of his size and hops, but he's not an especially good rebounder, if that makes any sense.

I think he's a terrific offensive player. The league has adjusted to him somewhat, and there are times he could do a better job of passing out of double teams and traps. But overall he's excellent on that end of the floor.

Our spacing is no better without him; that's a myth. When Bagley was out we still had two bigs on the floor most of the time, and Bagley has a better mid-range or perimeter game than either Bolden or DeLaurier.

I think we suffer from "only one ball" syndrome at times on offense, and maybe Bagley being out made that less evident. I'd still rather have more options than fewer.

As I said in the other thread, I think Dakich was way out of line. Even if there was a point buried in there somewhere, he was out of line in the way he made it.

I absolutely agree with this. You don't bash a kid like that on national television because you think he's selfish and doesn't play defense. That was a pathetic ramble that had no place for a commentator.

[DoWorkDukie]

It seems pretty clear that our turnover rate and offensive flow go way up when Bagley's in the game.

Posters have complained we don't get the ball to him in the post, but it completely wrecks our offensive flow when he unsuccessfully tries to gain position for a fairly low percentage post shot. Carter is significantly more effective in the post, because he has the lower body strength to consistently establish position.

I want Bagley to be a Justin Winslow type player, but I don't entirely disagree with Dakich. Bagley wants to get his one on one shots and he doesn't contribute to the offensive flow of the team. I'm frustrated with our offense when he is a go to player. Grayson certainly wasn't making plays, but the amount of turnovers we commit trying to feed Bagley, or Bagley trying to go high low to Carter, makes our offense significantly less efficient.

[Jeffrey]

Yeah, but don't you think the horrible offense against Syracuse was just due to our guards missing a ton of relatively open 3 point looks? That was my impression, anyway.

Yes, in the last two games, Gary has made 17% of his shots (2-11 and 1-7). He was 3-8 and 3-10 in the previous two games. Watch out UNC and ACC tournament! Mean reversion is real.

[dyedwab]

My point isn't that I agree or disagree with Dakich but that DD stated the exact same thing that many on here have stated (without using the word selfish). We may not have cared for how far he took it or for his choice of words but I've pretty much read equivalent statements on here for a while. Having Bagley sit out for 4 games was an eye opener for some.

Here's the thing. What said about Bagley and his basketball ability is an opinion with which I disagree and other agree. But calling him selfish - and the tone in which he criticized him - was an attack not on his basketball ability, but on his character and personality. I doubt Dakich has spent enough time with Bagley to know him personally, so calling him selfish, well, in my mind, that's unacceptable and Dakich should apologize.

[uh_no]

Yeah, but don't you think the horrible offense against Syracuse was just due to our guards missing a ton of relatively open 3 point looks? That was my impression, anyway.

That's what I meant by threes are "hit or miss." The same could be true of last night. If we hit our average, that's about 9 more points, giving us a 116 adjusted offense or so. Not great, but not horrible.

[DoWorkDukie]

Another poster said this, but to be fair, Trent is arguably also a black hole on offense. But he is more efficient as a player with his shot selection and turnover rate.

[Jeffrey]

I saw everyone going nuts in the post game thread over Dakich's comments. I think he went too far but take a look around here and read posts from the last 2 weeks and you'll find lots of DBR posts stating that Bagley is not a good defender and that he's a black hole on offense (so is Trent, BTW). I know that I've stated the MBIII doesn't pass and that he's so good that it didn't matter for much of the season but that as teams have figured out how to play him (be very physical and force him to his right) he's been less effective.

My point isn't that I agree or disagree with Dakich but that DD stated the exact same thing that many on here have stated (without using the word selfish). We may not have cared for how far he took it or for his choice of words but I've pretty much read equivalent statements on here for a while. Having Bagley sit out for 4 games was an eye opener for some.

I strongly agree, which is why I started this thread. It's not how Dakich said it (which was obviously lame), it's his general opinion (black hole, bad D) which I wanted us to debate.

[Jeffrey]

Posters have complained we don't get the ball to him in the post, but it completely wrecks our offensive flow when he unsuccessfully tries to gain position for a fairly low percentage post shot. Carter is significantly more effective in the post, because he has the lower body strength to consistently establish position.

Fairly low? Bagley has made over 60% of his shots this season. Who do we have who has done significantly better?

[elvis14]

Here's the thing. What said about Bagley and his basketball ability is an opinion with which I disagree and other agree. But calling him selfish - and the tone in which he criticized him - was an attack not on his basketball ability, but on his character and personality. I doubt Dakich has spent enough time with Bagley to know him personally, so calling him selfish, well, in my mind, that's unacceptable and Dakich should apologize.

That's fair. I do think using the word selfish was unacceptable. I think that we've critiqued his play similarly but I can see where Dakich's wording crossed over to being personal.

[Avvocato]

There's a difference between saying Duke is more effective without Bagley on the floor (and why) and that Bagley is selfish and all about him. I don't think the personal shots are appropriate, or necessarily accurate. The first part is open to debate, as many here have done recently.

[Bluegrassdevil1]

Personally, I wonder if the games sans Bagley (including MSU) were more of a result of a St. Crispin's Day, one for all and all for one rally of the troops, than anything particularly tied to Bagley himself.

Mentally speaking, if the team's best player is out, everyone else could internally pull themselves up, whereas with Bagley, perhaps the individual's reflexively pull back.

There is no question that Bagley feels the weight of expectations (especially showing the NBA what they want to see), but I do believe he genuinely wants to be a segment on the chain; however, his reflex is naturally towards savior-mode, not Coach K's five fingers into a fist.

I think Duke is in a similar situation to 2011 with Irving. Duke was solid without KI, but no one in their right mind opts to sit the #1 pick. Duke could be better off, in most games, without Bagley, but in those moments when you need a star to take over, having Bagley is a HUGE benefit.

The Avengers can save the world without the Incredible Hulk or Thor, but... if you have the option to use a giant monster or a guy with a hammer, then you risk failure with those characters by your side.

I do think Duke goes realistically goes farther in the tournament without Bagley, but I also believe the only way the team wins the ACC tournament or the NCAA crown, is with Bagley on the floor.

[Channing]

What i can't figure out is what happened to the mindset. Early in the season Bagley was throwing some great passes and we were an unbelievably efficient offense. I'm not sure if maybe his legs are tired, and throwing up a shot is the easy way out. I also see some not great body language when he doesn't get the initial post pass. That said, he is getting the absolute crap beat out of him down low. I'd get frustrated too.