What's Next?

[SkyBrickey]

I think we were all seeing good progress on our D. Then St Johns happened. Freshmen. It's mental - focus and intensity. It carried over to ballhandling and turnovers. I expect us to be back on our A game against the Heels.

[Devilwin]

I think we were all seeing good progress on our D. Then St Johns happened. Freshmen. It's mental - focus and intensity. It carried over to ballhandling and turnovers. I expect us to be back on our A game against the Heels.

We can win Thursday for sure. Talent wise, we are superior to them, and it's not even close. But we MUST play as a team, make our free throws (if we get any, we are at their place), and for God's sake cut down on turnovers! Do these things, we win. Don't, and it could be ugly..

[jv001]

I'm reading all these posts about sitting Duval and playing Grayson instead. But Grayson has been having lousy game after lousy game. The guy who won the 2015 NC isn't the guy on the floor wearing #3. I agree with your concern and it is haunting me a bit. But I bet it is haunting Grayson too!

Go Devils!

In the Duke half court offense, Grayson is the best at getting the ball to our big men. In Duke's fast break, most of the time Tre is the best with the ball in his hands. As for defense, Tre has not been the great on the ball defender I expected him to be. With his skill sets he should be a lights out defender. Grayson has actually been the best defender among our guards but he should be because he's a senior. I'm not for sitting Tre but I am hoping the coaching staff can get Trevon up to par on how to run the point guard position successfully. GoDuke!

[thedukelamere]

I'm not for sitting Tre but I am hoping the coaching staff can get Trevon up to par on how to run the point guard position successfully. GoDuke!

Much like M2M vs zone, I think sitting Tre would be a disservice to our long-term success... Better to take our lumps and allow the young gun to learn from his mistakes. In my opinion, part of Tre's problem is that, as he's trying to figure out when and where to insert himself and take over, the other 4 guys on the court are also trying to figure the same thing out. This confusion makes him a half second too slow or too fast on his passes, which leads to those frustrating 7-8 minute stretches where we are completely out of sync and/or everyone is playing 1 on 1 ball. We're lucky that we have exceptional athletes and that one of them can take over and score a few baskets on talent alone (as Tre did to keep us in the game down the stretch), but we aren't at final boss offensive Juggernaut level unless all 5 are N'Sync.

[elvis14]

I wasn't sure I was going to respond to this post at all and I really don't want to say anything stupid (I think that's been taken care of) but since I have some thoughts, I'll share them. One thing I will say is that I'm trying hard not to overreact to Saturday's loss to St. Johns but let's not kid ourselves, that's a really bad loss, I mean it's Wofford or maybe even Lander bad.

This team just makes me sad. We have enough talent to win it all, and yet we have enough dysfunction to lose to a 15 seed. Duval is currently a liability, would anyone disagree with this? I'd put Allen at the point and move Oconnell to the two with Trent, Bagley and Carter with Bolden or Javin first off the bench.

We must beat UNC twice, Va Tech twice and the close out Louisville and Ga Tech. We are good enough to win out, it just depends if K is willing to adjust his starting lineup. Allen should run the point, Duvall should sit. If you don't think so you literally haven't watched a game since November.

There are two bolded sentences above. I strongly disagree with the first bolded sentence. No, Duval is absolutely 100% not a liability at this point. Are there area's I'd like to see him improve? Of course, he's a freshman point guard. He had a brilliant couple of minutes on Saturday. The rest of the game, not so much. I spent the first half trying to figure out what was up and finally just realized that Duval was just not in sync with anyone else on the court. But, I'm not gong to overreact and claim that he's a liability because his last game was pretty bad or because he has some rough stretches during games. The second bolded sentence is complete BS and shouldn't be put on DBR. I'm sorry but the contention that if we don't agree with your ridiculous hyperbole means we haven't been paying attention is just pure crap (and that's the nice version of that sentence to avoid the wankerizer).

I disagree with that. He's not playing as well now as he has at other times, and for some stretches of the game vs StJ's (and in a few others), yes he was a liability. But he also has 8 or 10 minutes stretches when he absolutely destroys the opponent.
I've watched every game since November and i don't think so. The problem is you're projecting your own interpretation on everyone else, like children do. Reality is much more nuanced than your emotional knee-jerk reaction to a frustrating loss. Duval should start alongside Grayson, but perhaps their roles should be changed some. As someone mentioned elsewhere, and with which i agree, Duval is fantastic in the open court but much less effective in half-court setting. Perhaps a better solution than benching Duval is focus on having Grayson initiate offense in the half-court set and let Duval thrive in the open court.
This team can be frustrating to watch, but it shouldn't make any grown person sad. These guys are still figuring things out, as 18 yr olds do. I certainly thought they would have learned some of the lessons of previous losses by now, but they are fallible humans, just like you or me.

DukieInBrasil's response is fantastic on every front. I like the idea of having Grayson run point more in half court sets. One thing I've noticed is that our team plays well and, IMHO more consistently with Grayson at the point. I still think our ceiling (which is not the roof) is higher with Duval as our PG, however. I will admit that I liked the lineup with Grayson, Trent, White at the 1, 2, 3...if Jack can play good defense and rebound and I think the line up provides a great change of pace from our starting lineup (same for Javin in that 3 spot if he's playing well). I think having Duval sit out some and collect himself is helpful. Of course, I also think having Grayson sub out a little and collect himself (and maybe remind him to be an attack dog) would also be helpful. Mostly, as I try to forget about Saturday's debacle, I just hope we keep getting better overall heading into the tournaments.

Oh and 9F, this week, next week, every week.

[Dukebasketball2020]

This team has a lot of issues that need to be corrected.
1. We are turning the ball over way to much I can deal with 10 turnovers a game but when we have 18 and 8-10 of them are bonehead horrible passes those kill you.
2. Free throw shooting has to get better (This is directed towards bagley, carter and duval), if Duval is going to continue to be as bad as he is then he needs to sit during crunch time if the game is close, I did like how he decided to turn it on at the end of the game and be aggressive he needs to be like that all the time tho.
3. Grayson needs to find it and start looking to score instead of sitting back doing nothing lately. If he is going to continue to play the way he has this team won't make it very far.
4. Defense needs to improve, it starts with the helpside defense and defending the 3 point line. Duval is a bad defender, carter is out of position at times as well.

[jv001]

I wasn't sure I was going to respond to this post at all and I really don't want to say anything stupid (I think that's been taken care of) but since I have some thoughts, I'll share them. One thing I will say is that I'm trying hard not to overreact to Saturday's loss to St. Johns but let's not kid ourselves, that's a really bad loss, I mean it's Wofford or maybe even Lander bad.



There are two bolded sentences above. I strongly disagree with the first bolded sentence. No, Duval is absolutely 100% not a liability at this point. Are there area's I'd like to see him improve? Of course, he's a freshman point guard. He had a brilliant couple of minutes on Saturday. The rest of the game, not so much. I spent the first half trying to figure out what was up and finally just realized that Duval was just not in sync with anyone else on the court. But, I'm not gong to overreact and claim that he's a liability because his last game was pretty bad or because he has some rough stretches during games. The second bolded sentence is complete BS and shouldn't be put on DBR. I'm sorry but the contention that if we don't agree with your ridiculous hyperbole means we haven't been paying attention is just pure crap (and that's the nice version of that sentence to avoid the wankerizer).



DukieInBrasil's response is fantastic on every front. I like the idea of having Grayson run point more in half court sets. One thing I've noticed is that our team plays well and, IMHO more consistently with Grayson at the point. I still think our ceiling (which is not the roof) is higher with Duval as our PG, however. I will admit that I liked the lineup with Grayson, Trent, White at the 1, 2, 3...if Jack can play good defense and rebound and I think the line up provides a great change of pace from our starting lineup (same for Javin in that 3 spot if he's playing well). I think having Duval sit out some and collect himself is helpful. Of course, I also think having Grayson sub out a little and collect himself (and maybe remind him to be an attack dog) would also be helpful. Mostly, as I try to forget about Saturday's debacle, I just hope we keep getting better overall heading into the tournaments.

Oh and 9F, this week, next week, every week.

Neals +/- agrees with the bolded. That lineup was used for over 4 minutes and was a team leading +4(+39 per 40). But like I said, I don't think benching Tre completely is the answer. But let him sit when he turns the ball over. Our best point guard ever, Bobby Hurley had to go through some tough teaching moments. Too bad Tre won't hav 4 years to get it right. GoDuke!

[AtlDuke72]

I gotta say I have no idea what is next. We play UNC next, then a series of difficult games agains Va Tech, Syracuse, Louisville, at Va tech and at Ga tech followed by UNC at home. The homer in me says we roll all these teams but the way Duval has struggled at the point and Allens inability to take over as a sr leader is troubling on man unction to y fronts.

This team just makes me sad. We have enough talent to win it all, and yet we have enough dysfunction to lose to a 15 seed. Duval is currently a liability, would anyone disagree with this? I'd put Allen at the point and move Oconnell to the two with Trent, Bagley and Carter with Bolden or Javin first off the bench.

We must beat UNC twice, Va Tech twice and the close out Louisville and Ga Tech. We are good enough to win out, it just depends if K is willing to adjust his starting lineup. Allen should run the point, Duvall should sit. If you don't think so you literally haven't watched a game since November.

I don’t know how anyone could watch the last 10 minutes of the St. John’s game and reach the conclusion that Duval should be benched or that Allen should run the point.

[WVDUKEFAN]

I watched the halftime show during the Syracuse vs. Louisville game. There was a consensus that Grayson Allen needs to be more involved offensively. I've been saying that for weeks as well. It's been suggested he step up and be a leader since he's the senior. The only way he can do that is to be more involved. I agree with some of the other posters who suggest Grayson runs the half court offense better than Trevon. I think he does as well (most of the time). There are also times when Trevon looks spectacular. We just to get that Trevon more often.

I'm not drinking the Jack White Kool Aid just yet. He had a good game against Notre Dame, with 7 boards and 5 points in 14 minutes. He really didn't do much against St. Johns.

Javin D- started the season really strong. I thought he was our No. 6 man. I don't know what is going on with his play.

Marqes Bolden- I thought he had a solid performance in 10 minutes on Saturday. Rebounds, blocks, and a couple of nice put backs. He can definitely spell Bags and Wendell.

Alex O'C- ? I'm guessing he's fighting an illness? A major decline in minutes the past 3 games.

[elvis14]

I'm not drinking the Jack White Kool Aid just yet. He had a good game against Notre Dame, with 7 boards and 5 points in 14 minutes. He really didn't do much against St. Johns.

Javin D- started the season really strong. I thought he was our No. 6 man. I don't know what is going on with his play.

Marqes Bolden- I thought he had a solid performance in 10 minutes on Saturday. Rebounds, blocks, and a couple of nice put backs. He can definitely spell Bags and Wendell.

Alex O'C- ? I'm guessing he's fighting an illness? A major decline in minutes the past 3 games.

I wouldn't say that I'm all in on the Jack White Kool Aid but I'd like to see him get some more court time. I was very curious to see what he'd do Saturday after his big game against ND so when Jack was on the court I focussed on him and not on the ball. What I saw was a guy that was playing defense and moving his feet. He took and missed 1 shot but it was the right shot to take. I'm not saying "bench Duval and give JW 20 more minutes of playing time" or anything like that. But I do think it would be good to have a few more minutes of Jack when we rest guys. Or to put it another way, I'd like to see us give Jack his shot at significant minutes and see what happens. Maybe he's not ready, or maybe we get better. I also think that Duval (and Grayson) benefits from taking a break to get himself together during games (win-win).

I agree with your take on the other 3 guys. Hope AOC gets healthy and ready, I like his game on the offensive end of the court and it never hurts to have shooters (he defense does need to improve but that's the whole team just about).

[BeachBlueDevil]

I've watched 90% of all the games this year and I've seen Duval struggle and Allen struggle. Both have perplexed me at times and other times I can see why they are struggling. I feel in watching all these games that I've noticed is the offense (in my opinion) seems to flow better when Duval is out of the game a Allen is doing most of the ball handling. I think it allows Allen to be more of a playmaker instead of waiting for someone to get him the ball. I'd be interesting to see what Allen's offensive efficiency is when Duval is in the game and when he's out. Also when Duval is out it allows for one more shooter to come in (AOC) and makes this defenses respect the perimeter a little more.

Now I think the biggest hindrance to Allen and Duval overall is also what our biggest strength is and that's Bagley and Carter. Two big bodies down low make it difficult for two guys who excel at the dribble drive to get into the lane. If this was a traditional Duke offense who played small ball, Allen and Duval would be considered one of the best backcourts in the country at this point.

[jv001]

I've watched 90% of all the games this year and I've seen Duval struggle and Allen struggle. Both have perplexed me at times and other times I can see why they are struggling. I feel in watching all these games that I've noticed is the offense (in my opinion) seems to flow better when Duval is out of the game a Allen is doing most of the ball handling. I think it allows Allen to be more of a playmaker instead of waiting for someone to get him the ball. I'd be interesting to see what Allen's offensive efficiency is when Duval is in the game and when he's out. Also when Duval is out it allows for one more shooter to come in (AOC) and makes this defenses respect the perimeter a little more.

Now I think the biggest hindrance to Allen and Duval overall is also what our biggest strength is and that's Bagley and Carter. Two big bodies down low make it difficult for two guys who excel at the dribble drive to get into the lane. If this was a traditional Duke offense who played small ball, Allen and Duval would be considered one of the best backcourts in the country at this point.

Both you and Elvis make good points. I think Duke's zone is better with Alex or Jack up top. They are both taller and seem to "get it" when it comes to playing the zone. Part of Tre's problem seems to be he goes for the steal and get's out of position too many times. Gary has that same problem. If Tre could be the playmaking point guard and use his speed to get into lane when it is open, he could really help our offense and cut down on the turnovers. But so far he has not done that in the half court set. At the end of the St. John's game, he was able to get a running start before the defense was fully set up and he made some terrific plays. I think the success of this team rests with defense and Tre's development as a top notch point guard. I don't think Grayson's shooting is as important. Yes, it's important but we have 4 other guys that have the potential to score 14-30 points in any game. GoDuke!

[CDu]

Both you and Elvis make good points. I think Duke's zone is better with Alex or Jack up top. They are both taller and seem to "get it" when it comes to playing the zone. Part of Tre's problem seems to be he goes for the steal and get's out of position too many times. Gary has that same problem. If Tre could be the playmaking point guard and use his speed to get into lane when it is open, he could really help our offense and cut down on the turnovers. But so far he has not done that in the half court set. At the end of the St. John's game, he was able to get a running start before the defense was fully set up and he made some terrific plays. I think the success of this team rests with defense and Tre's development as a top notch point guard. I don't think Grayson's shooting is as important. Yes, it's important but we have 4 other guys that have the potential to score 14-30 points in any game. GoDuke!

I don't agree about White or O'Connell being better fits up high in the zone. Duval and Allen are FANTASTIC guards in the zone. Where they are less effective is in man-to-man defense. They are both better than O'Connell (who is pretty bad defensively right now) and White (who is best suited to play PF, not guard) on the perimeter of the zone.

[uh_no]

I wouldn't say that I'm all in on the Jack White Kool Aid but I'd like to see him get some more court time.

...and a 115 point win against the heels coming up

[devildeac]

...and a 115 point win against the heels coming up

I'd be delighted with Duke-82, cheaters-50 but would "settle" for a larger margin.

[kako]

What's Next? My crystal ball says:

1. We beat the Heels. Twice. 9F. Even with Duke's issues, the Devils should win. Bagley and Carter dominate, UNC cannot stop them. This is what players come to Duke for - to play in this rivalry. Carolina has been in a tailspin, and Duke has had 5 days to stew on the SJU debacle. Strange things can happen when it's Duke/UNC, but not this time. And Duke at home should be a sweet ending to the season.

2. Duval will continue to start. I'd be surprised if K makes this change. Allen isn't truly the answer - he wasn't so effective last year as PG and hasn't improved enough this year. Will this limit Duke in the tourney? Probably. No Duke team has ever won the tourney without a stellar PG (some kind of All-American), and there isn't one this year. I hope I am dead wrong.

3. Allen finds his shot. Not sure when, but it will happen. Recall Scheyer lost his shot in 2010 but eventually found it. I also recall JD had temporary issues. Good shooters can go through slumps. Allen will find his, though that probably won't mean 20+ppg...

4. Duke will likely go 5-2 down the stretch. Clemson away will be tough. VaTech, Cuse or Ville could all clip Duke. Duke could win the ACC tourney, but UVA would have to be upset to do so.

5. Bagley gets POY, ACC and National. If Carter can continue his play, he may get 2nd team AA. Duke gets 3 players 1st/2nd All ACC.

As a wise man has said, all predictions guaranteed wrong or your money back.

[Kedsy]

No Duke team has ever won the tourney without a stellar PG (some kind of All-American), and there isn't one this year. I hope I am dead wrong.

You are dead wrong. Tyus Jones was no kind of All American. Bobby Hurley was All American in 1993 but not in 1991 or 1992, and Jon Scheyer was really a combo guard playing point because that's all we had.

[kako]

You are dead wrong. Tyus Jones was no kind of All American. Bobby Hurley was All American in 1993 but not in 1991 or 1992, and Jon Scheyer was really a combo guard playing point because that's all we had.

I stand corrected (though Scheyer was an AA and Hurley & Jones were All ACC and, well, Hurley was Hurley). But I guess my point is still that the other teams had much more solid PGs. Maybe you have to go back to Capel to find Duke as iffy at PG for any FF team under K. But team had GHill so it still worked... Anyway what I hope I'm dead wrong about is the NCAAs. Maybe things can gel - but I just can't see it now. Then again I wouldn't put it past K, as I didn't see Casey Sanders coming, either.

[Troublemaker]

I stand corrected (though Scheyer was an AA and Hurley & Jones were All ACC and, well, Hurley was Hurley). But I guess my point is still that the other teams had much more solid PGs. Maybe you have to go back to Capel to find Duke as iffy at PG for any FF team under K. But team had GHill so it still worked... Anyway what I hope I'm dead wrong about is the NCAAs. Maybe things can gel - but I just can't see it now. Then again I wouldn't put it past K, as I didn't see Casey Sanders coming, either.

I think you're fundamentally correct.
(1) We'll need Trevon to improve his level in Feb and March, but he probably will still lag behind the other PGs you mentioned.
(2) We'll need the other unusual aspects of this team -- e.g. the post tandem of Carter/Bagley -- to make up for the lack of a great PG.

One thing I do not agree with, which was suggested upthread (not by you), is benching Trevon. I did not sit through the January version of Trevon to not find out whether those reps can help him raise his level in Feb and March. I also don't make home-cooked meals and then not eat them. I'd rather bench Bagley, lol.