MBB: St. John's 81, Duke 77 Post-Game Thread

[porkpa]

FUNDAMENTALS!!! Free throws, defense and finishing under the basket. Wendell Carter, the only guy who showed up to play.

[kAzE]

Turnovers and free throw shooting . . .

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

One and Done.

Man, your OAD shtick is getting real tired. You've been here for a month and your post history is a litany of negativity. Try supporting our guys on the roster for a minute and not bemoaning the current situation.

During the Miami game (that we won) you pronounced our program DOA. If you believe that, maybe find a new hobby.

A team this young is going to have growing pains. People on the thread and in chat declared this game over with eight to go. We fought back and took the lead before mistakes cost us. If you think this group of kids doesn't have the grit and determination to win tight games, you have lost your mind.

Sorry for calling you out individually, but I swear I don't recognize this board anymore. The over the top gloom and doom after every possession or four minute time out is too exhausting for me to keep up with. I don't see that sort of crap as being a Duke fan, but being a Duke critic. Maybe we need a separate message board for "fans" who want to predict first round exits after every loss or say "see I told you so" when Duval has a turnover.

[Saratoga2]

My initial reaction is that we got outhustled for a good part of the game. Our sloppy ball handling led to a lot of turnovers and our defense was broken down over and over during the game. We didn't handle their pick and role and couldn't stop their drives to the basket. They also shot well from the 3 point line. St Johns does have some really good players so they were able to take advantage of our weaknesses.

On a positive note, Carter played an excellent game. Trent shot well and Duval showed signs of his offensive ability. Bagley remains potent, although not enough to make the difference today. Grayson was not an offensive force today although he may have gotten 6 or 7 points. He was guilty of some lazy pass turnovers but was not the only one to fall into that trap. Grayson did fight hard and took a charge that helped get us back in the game. Not much from the bench, although Bolden had some good minutes.

We came out flat in the second half and got way behind. Kind of typical swoon for this team. Then we needed a furious comeback which fell short.

[tulsuduke]

Feel free to prove my wrong, but Allen seems to really struggle in these "neutral" site games played in NBA arenas.

[dukelifer]

Duke starts five first round picks. St Johns has no NBA players. Duke was playing an away game in ‘Cameron North’. The crowd was probably 60% Duke. I know this cus I was at the game.

If you can’t blame the coaching staff, then I’m not sure who you can blame. Our coached against a coach likely to be fired this year. Wow...wow...

I don’t know about no NBA players- that kid Ponds is pretty impressive. This was a trap game and Duke fell into it.

[Wander]

Jack White was in every late possession on D to keep Bags in the game. Which player would you have pulled off the floor and for whom?

Late in the game? No one. We should play our starters/best players at the end of games, and for the majority of minutes. But I don't see a reason why O'Connell shouldn't take just a few of Grayson's and Duval's minutes throughout the middle of the game.

[dukelifer]

Im honest trying to remember a more embarrassing loss in program history. Anyone? St Johns had lost 11 straight games. 11 straight. 11 straight games.

No doubt the “punishment” will be the yearly banning the players from the locker room because that’s so helpful. But it’s the program recruiting strategy that is the reason. I’m stunned at how the coaching staff didn’t have this team ready to play. This is not Duke basketball.

Look at those games they lost- St John’s is better than their record and played a Duke team that struggles on D.

[duke74]

Not gonna be fun walking down the halls of Tobin (the business school) at SJU on Monday...or teaching. Glad I low-keyed it, thinking that we would be in for a game...yuck

[JD for Three!]

Bagley has to adjust to getting pushed around down low without getting the calls. He can’t react with the push off. He’s going to see more of that.

[SCMatt33]

Jack White was in every late possession on D to keep Bags in the game. Which player would you have pulled off the floor and for whom?

This is exactly why the rotations early in the year always befuddle me. None of the bench guys ever get a chance to work through their issues on the floor, instead relying on starter for 30+ minutes except in blowouts, then when you have a game where there's clear effort issues by your starting lineup, you have to throw your hands up and say "who would you turn to" when you have 12 scholarship players on the roster, but onlythe starting 5 have any big game experience during crunch time. Could you lose a game in November or December doing that? Sure. But I'd much rather lose those games in December than March. But to be honest, the first half was where this game was lost for me. There was absolutely no effort and any decent effort from any of the top 50 teams in the country would put you up by 20 or more over this St. John's team. You had practically an entire half where the offense was 4 guys standing still watching the ball, and the defense put zero effort into recovering off of screens and doubles. The only reasons we were up at that point was hot shooting, and a complete lack of talent front St. John's resulting in fouls and putbacks. There was a lot of things to criticize in pervious losses and close calls, but they were always guys being too aggressive and making silly turnovers or leaving people open on D as a result. This was a total lack of effort.

[Bob Green]

The one over Gary? What was he supposed to do? Prayer shot went in.

Exactly. Trent was focused on not fouling a 3PT shooter at the end of the shot clock. He did everything he could do in that situation.

[jipops]

Though we had a chance at the end, it felt like this ended once the 2nd half started. You could tell this would be a dud. Despite St John's biggest strength being the ability to force turnovers we were in no way remotely prepared for that. Else this game would have been over in the 1st half. It almost feels like the staff is starting to freestyle with this group. K has always been a master of preparation but it didn't appear so today.

Any chance we can show up Thursday with Wofford's uniforms? Could be our only shot.

[dukelifer]

Exactly. Trent was focused on not fouling a 3PT shooter at the end of the shot clock. He did everything he could do in that situation.

That kid made some crazy shots all game. A St John’s kid goes off against Duke- has that ever happened before

[Dukehky]

Positives- Bolden, I thought anyway. They didn't quit when they were down 11. I guess that's nice?

Negatives- I don't want to get carpel tunnel.

Grayson just has to be better. The whole reason for having Duval is for Allen to hunt his shot. He's not doing that, except at times when Trent should probably be the guy shooting at this point. I know that's kind of contradictory, but to let G bring the ball up down 3 with 20 seconds left was just so stupid. Give it to Duval, who has been making plays. Worse case, he gets to rim and we're down 1 with 15 seconds left. Best case, you run our shooters off screens and get it to the guy who made 5-7 for the day. I know G got a pretty good shot off but that was sooooo lucky for him to get a look.

Carter was a disaster on pick and roll defense for 30 minutes today. Thought Bolden actually did a really good job.

I don't have any problems with the bench usage. MAYBE give O'Connell some run in the first half to see if he's in one of those moods where he's aggressive and is hot. Jack played pretty well today even with no buckets. Javin... I don't know if he's hurt or what, but anyone who is clamoring for him to get more minutes just isn't seeing the same things I see. His negative plays far outweigh the positives on the season as a whole. Maybe he just gets the Hairston treatment where refs salivate when he comes in, but he gives up a bad and 1 pretty often. THat's just what I'm seeing from him, don't mean to bash him, I just don't think he should be getting any minutes.

Also, we got Bootsie Thornton'd today, except that kid scores 30 on everyone who is any good.

Pretty bad loss. Hopefully we can convert that into positive energy to beat the absolute crap out of Carolina on Thursday.

St. Johns player also got away with fouling the crap out of our guards a ton, and I thought they walked on a lot of drives, but we got away with 2 goaltending calls so maybe it evened out. Thought the tone was set early that they were going to "let them play" (aka allow fouling). Maybe we got the benefit of the doubt too and I just didn't notice.

All that being said, I don't see us going out early the tournament. I don't understand that notion. I assume that we'll be better in March than we are now, which is still pretty damn good. I imagine that if we win on Thursday people will be happy again. No need to vent and be all alarmist about stuff, Jesus.

Also, the one and done thing is not the problem. Our one senior was probably our worst player for the vast majority of the game. He was a ghost on both ends of the floor for huge stretches in this game. Duke isn't recruiting anyone who sticks around for 4 years and is better than Grayson Allen. I know he's in a slump, but we need him to get the hell out of it. That being said, Scheyer and Singler were pretty bad for long stretches during 2010 and then they couldn't miss in the tournament. Law of averages, I would bet he plays better to close out the year.

[jipops]

Duke starts five first round picks. St Johns has no NBA players. Duke was playing an away game in ‘Cameron North’. The crowd was probably 60% Duke. I know this cus I was at the game.

If you can’t blame the coaching staff, then I’m not sure who you can blame. Our coached against a coach likely to be fired this year. Wow...wow...

I'd be surprised if Allen and Duval were 1st round picks.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

Unfortunately FT shooting sinks the team again- or at least changes the game. It is a big weakness and difficult to overcome during tourney time. This is a talented team but when 3 key guys are shaky from the line- it is very hard to win at the end of close games. St John’s came to play. Allen again struggled when needed most. Tough game coming up. Another huge challenge for the young kids- an emotional Duke UNC game is never ever easy. They will be shocked by the intensity.

We shot our season FT percentage which isn’t great. But I think this loss is pretty clearly related to our 18 TOs and their 16 Off Rebs. They generated 14 more FG attempts for the game.

[OZ]

Turnovers and free throw shooting . . .

inside defense...hustling... getting loose balls... a sense of urgency

[flyingdutchdevil]

...then who is gonna shout at the coaching staff?

[flyingdutchdevil]

I'd be surprised if Allen and Duval were 1st round picks.

Based on his ACC play, I’d be shocked if Grayson is a first round pick. His shooting is his greatest asset. And he’s not hunting his shot on a consistent basis.