UNC's Jalek Felton has been suspended

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

It seems you may have missed the two "if" words in my post.

Speculation (on multiple websites) is that it involves some sort of sexual assault. That speculation was heightened when he hired an attorney that specializes in sexual assault cases. I am not taking any drastic leaps.

I think it's beyond stupid for someone to say that they feel sorry for the kid "even if was caused by his own action". Even past the word stupid, I think it's a dangerous comment to make and perhaps a sad indication of how we value high-profile sports athletes.

I don't feel "sorry for the kid" until I know what happened. But regardless of what he did or didn't do, I feel it is a topic worthy of a higher level of discourse than "hurr hurr, UNC suxxxx." By any estimation, this kid's life has been radically changed, and to more it is in poor taste to use it as an *additional* opportunity to take jabs at the academic scandal.

As someone said above, it reminds me of Sulaimon (who I am on record as having no sympathy for) and UNC fans piling on the young man and Duke. Something tragic is going in, and a young man has squandered a great opportunity.

I will refrain from further comment until we get more information.

[MarkD83]

I think this is accurate. And given the #metoo, Dr. Nasser, MSU, climate we're in, UNC wants no part of failing to be assertive in the public perception. Felton's lawyer is saying he hasn't even been charged, so UNC is playing it safe. It's a lot easier to suspend him, and reinstate if there's nothing there, than it is to continue to let him go to school and play basketball, only to find out he was guilty of something heinous. Heads would roll.

In trying to take this discussion to a higher level, this does seem to be a shift in UNC's handling of their athletic department. In the past 20 years, the university seemed to do the bidding of the athletic department. Yesterday Roy mentioned that he had nothing to do with this which seemed to mildly irritate him.

In the past this incident might have been handled by letting Felton continue to play while an investigation was being held since that is what would have been best for the basketball team. In this case the university decided to do what was best for the university and perhaps didn't even consult Roy.

[moonpie23]

how do you turn this gall darn rumor mongering plugin filter on?

[PackMan97]

http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/c...197371454.html

Not much new information.

I do wonder if he's suspended from even attending class, how much class time before he is unable to return this season?

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/c...197371454.html

Not much new information.

I do wonder if he's suspended from even attending class, how much class time before he is unable to return this season?

That may be the most telling detail yet.

[English]

how do you turn this gall darn rumor mongering plugin filter on?

You're right. He could totally be accused of mermaid-like activities, so his hiring a half-marmaid/half-Title IX attorney is very misleading.

[Owen Meany]

Understandably, UNC, the institution, has lost all benefit of the doubt on matters of ethics, fair-play, etc. The barbs and suspicion aimed in their direction has all been well-earned. They sold their soul, in the most crass and cynical manner, to hold onto athletic victories. But for the sake of Jalek Felton, or anyone else who might find themselves in this position, I'd like to note that Title IX cases have generated significant concern from many people (from Betsy DeVos to Jerry Brown).


Briefly, in 2011 the federal government issued guidance to universities requiring that they lower the burden of proof in sexual-assault cases to a “preponderance of the evidence” standard (meaning you found someone was 50.00001% likely to have committed an assault). As a result, there have been cases of students being expelled without basic due-process (ex. written notice of allegations, right to present exculpatory evidence, etc.). KC Johnson, familiar to many from the Duke Lacrosse case, has written about this and keeps a running tally of cases (in the dozens) where courts have over-ruled the disciplinary actions of University Honor Courts (including a case at Duke University). To further illustrate how difficult these cases can be, Duke has been sued by both an accused student and a student claiming sexual assault due to the actions of the same investigator.


Sexual Assault cases are very difficult. Even the definition of sexual assault can be very different for different people. The Title IX guidance was recently rescinded, but many universities still have procedures in place developed under the fear of being found non-compliant by the federal government. As a result, you can not assume that there is evidence against a student just because they were suspended. I would think any university would be extremely cautious in such a situation (which makes Michigan State's actions/in-actions that much more baffling). That could very well include suspending someone immediately until further information is gathered.

[elvis14]

In trying to take this discussion to a higher level, this does seem to be a shift in UNC's handling of their athletic department. In the past 20 years, the university seemed to do the bidding of the athletic department. Yesterday Roy mentioned that he had nothing to do with this which seemed to mildly irritate him.

In the past this incident might have been handled by letting Felton continue to play while an investigation was being held since that is what would have been best for the basketball team. In this case the university decided to do what was best for the university and perhaps didn't even consult Roy.

He may have said that but does anyone really believe him? Or is he just trying to distance himself from the situation to insulate himself and appear innocent (we've seen this behavior from him in the past).

As for Felton, Like others, I'll reserve much comment on him until we know more.

[uh_no]

He may have said that but does anyone really believe him?

Are you suggesting that...

...

...roy knew?

In any case, I'm sure roy was kept extremely well informed of what was going on. While he may not have been consulted in the decision, I can't imagine he wasn't involved.

[English]

At the risk of getting a stern fingerwag from the MtnDevil and others, and slightly off-topic but still relevant, I recommend Gary Parrish & Matt Norlander's latest (I think, perhaps second most recent now) podcast--Eye on College Basketball--in which they discuss the MSU situation. I think it has some pretty straightforward application to this situation (in which action is taken before full information is gleaned).

Among other things, they basically say that back in 2010 and earlier, the norm was the let the kid stay in school and play in practices and games while an investigation played out. Only if/when allegations progressed to guilt or indictment, was action ever taken by a school--Coach Cal at Memphis was an example they cite. Right or wrong (and almost certainly wrong), that was the SOP. Conversely, in the era we find ourselves with #metoo and social media and the 24-hour news cycle, schools and organizations are being far more deliberate about taking action upfront as an investigation unfolds, and then with complete information, either reinstating the player/person in the event that facts exculpated them (or at least didn't lead anywhere), or sticking with the initial action.

This all to say, unx's actions to remove Felton up front, while due diligence is performed, is the new norm. Same with Markell Johnson at NCSU. Here's hoping it's all a major misunderstanding and no bad acts were committed, so he and everyone on the periphery can move on.

[DevilYouKnow]

I'll bet UNC feels silly instituting that policy in 2015, just trying to appear moral and all. Now they have to live up to it. Damn.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

At the risk of getting a stern fingerwag from the MtnDevil and others, and slightly off-topic but still relevant, I recommend Gary Parrish & Matt Norlander's latest (I think, perhaps second most recent now) podcast--Eye on College Basketball--in which they discuss the MSU situation. I think it has some pretty straightforward application to this situation (in which action is taken before full information is gleaned).

Among other things, they basically say that back in 2010 and earlier, the norm was the let the kid stay in school and play in practices and games while an investigation played out. Only if/when allegations progressed to guilt or indictment, was action ever taken by a school--Coach Cal at Memphis was an example they cite. Right or wrong (and almost certainly wrong), that was the SOP. Conversely, in the era we find ourselves with #metoo and social media and the 24-hour news cycle, schools and organizations are being far more deliberate about taking action upfront as an investigation unfolds, and then with complete information, either reinstating the player/person in the event that facts exculpated them (or at least didn't lead anywhere), or sticking with the initial action.

This all to say, unx's actions to remove Felton up front, while due diligence is performed, is the new norm. Same with Markell Johnson at NCSU. Here's hoping it's all a major misunderstanding and no bad acts were committed, so he and everyone on the periphery can move on.

No finger wagging from me on this post. I would much prefer intelligent discussion about the situation and social norms to light hearted chuckling about UNC's scandal and/or poking fun at the young man who clearly is going to have quite a lot to work out.

We can all agree (I think) that the entire landscape has been turned on its head post Sandusky/Nasser/Weinstein/CK etc. I don't think any of us are sharp enough to know truly what the best course of action is in these situations anymore, from an institutional perspective other than "don't let it happen on your watch."

[chrishoke]

This all to say, unx's actions to remove Felton up front, while due diligence is performed, is the new norm. Same with Markell Johnson at NCSU. Here's hoping it's all a major misunderstanding and no bad acts were committed, so he and everyone on the periphery can move on.

Was Markell Johnson excluded from going to classes?

[JasonEvans]

Among other things, they basically say that back in 2010 and earlier, the norm was the let the kid stay in school and play in practices and games while an investigation played out. Only if/when allegations progressed to guilt or indictment, was action ever taken by a school--Coach Cal at Memphis was an example they cite. Right or wrong (and almost certainly wrong), that was the SOP. Conversely, in the era we find ourselves with #metoo and social media and the 24-hour news cycle, schools and organizations are being far more deliberate about taking action upfront as an investigation unfolds, and then with complete information, either reinstating the player/person in the event that facts exculpated them (or at least didn't lead anywhere), or sticking with the initial action.

I would just like to add that there is the possibility of abuse if schools automatically suspend players the moment an allegation is made. I think there is some obligation to at least begin to look into the allegations to see if there might be a "there" there.

[English]

I would just like to add that there is the possibility of abuse if schools automatically suspend players the moment an allegation is made. I think there is some obligation to at least begin to look into the allegations to see if there might be a "there" there.

This is completely valid, and another point the two guys made on their pod. As an example, Duke University has been separately sued by a student claiming that she was sexually assaulted and the institution mishandled her case, and by a student claiming that he was accused of sexual assault and the institution mishandled his case. It’s a minefield navigating these complicated cases, and the nature of them is often he said/she said (or similar).

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

This is completely valid, and another point the two guys made on their pod. As an example, Duke University has been separately sued by a student claiming that she was sexually assaulted and the institution mishandled her case, and by a student claiming that he was accused of sexual assault and the institution mishandled his case. It’s a minefield navigating these complicated cases, and the nature of them is often he said/she said (or similar).

Definitely true that there's a possibility of abusing the system, but I think it's a very natural reaction. The pendulum has swung hard and with good reason. After generations of victim blaming and victim distrust, erring on the side of the victim while we as a society try and figure out how best to move forward in our new enlightened state seems like it makes sense. Is it "fair?" Well, that depends wholly on whether or not the accused is guilty.

I don't think we can take any of these particular instances out of the greater social context of what's happening around our country as we try and suss out how to correct generations of misconduct. We're a different society now than we were even four years ago.

[uh_no]

Definitely true that there's a possibility of abusing the system, but I think it's a very natural reaction. The pendulum has swung hard and with good reason. After generations of victim blaming and victim distrust, erring on the side of the victim while we as a society try and figure out how best to move forward in our new enlightened state seems like it makes sense. Is it "fair?" Well, that depends wholly on whether or not the accused is guilty.

I don't think we can take any of these particular instances out of the greater social context of what's happening around our country as we try and suss out how to correct generations of misconduct. We're a different society now than we were even four years ago.

this country was built on protecting the rights of the accused. it's a shame we discard that in this day and age. accusations ruin lives. there are still people convinced that "something must have happened" at the lax party.

There are ways to handle these situations that protect both the victim and the accused. Unfortunately, such actions usually don't jibe with the fire and brimstone that the population calls for in general. There is a general contest to see who can be "more outraged" in such scenarios. There is a brilliant quote from a piece of harry potter fan-fiction (methods of rationality) that I like:

Those now prisoner in Azkaban voted for the same Ministers of Magic who pledged to move their cells closer to the Dementors.

Everybody is okay with being outraged at conservative actions taken against the accused and convicted...until they end up on the wrong side of it.

There was a fantastic series of articles in the chronicle last spring discussing how students are getting screwed by the honor council that rules on cheating matters. If the university can't seem to give even basic rights to people accused of cheating, then I have no faith that they will do so in larger cases. Again, the lacrosse case, unfortunately, is evidence of that...and were it not still fresh in the administrations mind, I bet we'd railroad those three guys again.

The victims have rights. the accused have rights. we can protect both of them.

[OldPhiKap]

The victims have rights. the accused have rights. we can protect both of them.

Agreed. And the best way we can honor that on this board is to avoid the speculation that has been going on in this thread, which I assume was what prompted uh_no's post.

We do not know what the allegations are. We do not know what the underlying facts are. Let the system play itself out. The fact that his lawyer has handled high-profile cases involving a certain type of allegation does not necessarily mean that those same allegations are being made here. It may simply mean that the lawyer handles high-profile cases of athletes, and obviously is good at it.

Ed Tolley in Athens is the go-to for UGA athletes in trouble. Doesn't matter the charge, he's the guy you want. There are plenty of reasons this lawyer may have been selected that are unrelated to what the specific allegations are. Good lawyers can handle a variety of matters.

[flyingdutchdevil]

He may have said that but does anyone really believe him? Or is he just trying to distance himself from the situation to insulate himself and appear innocent (we've seen this behavior from him in the past).

As for Felton, Like others, I'll reserve much comment on him until we know more.

I actually believe Roy in this case.

Based on what we know (Felton hired a lawyer whose firm specializes in sexual misconduct allegations), Felton is likely accused of something related to sexual misconduct. This doesn't make him guilty at all. But I think sexual misconduct is 100% non-basketball related (and I'd argue academics are basketball related cus you need to be in good academic standing to play basketball) and, if this is the case, then Roy probably has nothing to do with it and may not even know about it.

In today's world, universities and institutions take sexual misconduct so seriously that "acting first, investigating second" is the new norm. Not commenting whether this is right or wrong, just saying how it is. If you are accused of sexual misconduct by a fellow student, professor, fan, random stranger, talking dog, tree that can write, etc etc, your world will be turned upside-down until the investigation is complete.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

this country was built on protecting the rights of the accused. it's a shame we discard that in this day and age. accusations ruin lives. there are still people convinced that "something must have happened" at the lax party.

There are ways to handle these situations that protect both the victim and the accused. Unfortunately, such actions usually don't jibe with the fire and brimstone that the population calls for in general.

To be clear, I wasn't suggesting that this "swinging of the pendulum" was just or fair, just explaining why I believe it to be happening. I think it's pretty natural when our society has been skewered in one direction for so long, that when a light is finally shined on the severity of the problem, our thinking may hedge on other side for awhile before a truly "fair" balance is reached.