Chronicle writer calls out the Crazies

[Thurber Whyte]

Yeah, because chanting about sexual assault towards Herman Veal was definitely not inexcusably rude.

I believe it absolutely was inexcusably rude.

I, for one, do not think showering Herman Veal with panties and condoms and holding up signs asking “Did you buy her flowers?” was rude. Herman Veal had been found liable for an attempted rape by the University of Maryland’s judicial board. It got worse when Lefty Driesell contacted the victim and asked her to drop the charges so that Veal could play in the ACC Tournament the year before. If we can make fun of players because of their height, weight, resemblance to Bob Marley or collapsed lung and that is clever, why could the Cameron Crazies or fans in any other arena not question why some rapeo is running around on their court and why someone thought it was a good idea to bring him.

A lot of the collective memory of that event was unfortunately shaped by the Washington Post, which was and still is one of the worst homer newspapers when it comes to Maryland Terrapin sports. Keep in mind that, prior to that incident, Lorenzo Charles had been showered with pizza boxes after being caught stealing pizzas and Chris Washburn had been showered with album covers after stealing a stereo. Most observers thought those episodes were funny. I am sure that they struck a raw nerve with some N.C. State fans, but they, for their part, were capable of recognizing that the underlying conduct was wrongful so there was no great outcry. But not Maryland fans. No, with their combination of exceptionalism and self regard, they took umbrage to the fact that anyone would even question the integrity of one of their players or their team, fairly or otherwise. The Washington Post decided to make, not the sexual assault, mind you, but the Cameron Crazies’ reaction to it a national issue with a column entitled “Majoring in Smart___.” (dewankerized version)

I am glad that someone posted the Avuncular Letter. It does contain sound advice and constructive criticism. However, notice that, even though it was the direct result of the Herman Veal incident, it does not directly reference it nor does it address the conduct associated with it. The letter devotes almost all of its space to the use of obscenities in cheers and decries the poverty of vocabulary and imagination that they represent. My understanding of the history of the Crazies was that they were indeed a lot cruder and rougher around the edges than they were when I was there and that changed because of the letter. However, I contend that the Herman Veal incident was essentially consistent with the letter’s call to be “clever but clean . . . mean but wholesome.” Unless you are offended by ladies’ unmentionables, it was the underlying subject matter that was obscene in the Herman Veal incident and not the words or actions used by the students.

There was another thread that asked when posters first became aware of or started supporting Duke Basketball. At the time, I was a high school junior living in Maryland who had never heard of Duke University and had not even started looking at colleges. I did not follow basketball either. I saw a story about the Herman Veal incident on the local television news complete with video and hand wringing and my reaction was, “That is hilarious!” I did not choose to go to Duke because of the Herman Veal incident, but it probably does illustrate why I fit in there and why I have a preexisting allergy to terping.

Speaking of the Avuncular Letter, I dislike the “you suck” welcome for the reasons stated in the letter. My understanding is that the “Hi, {player name}” chant during the introductions started at the home game following the Herman Veal incident and the Avuncular letter, which happened to be against UNC. During that game the Crazies were pretending to be reformed characters, wearing tin foil halos and holding up signs saying things such as, “A hearty welcome to Coach Smith and his boys!” and also, ironically given subsequent events, “Welcome fellow scholars!” The chant caught on because it was unique and funny at a time when most fan bases simply booed the opposing players as they were announced. That was the way it was when I was there from 1985-1991. (No, I was not especially dim. I stayed on for a masters and a J.D. in Smart___.) The “you suck” part was spontaneously added during a Carolina game a year or so after I left. It was funny, if at all, ONCE. I am sorry that it became a tradition especially given the origins of the “Hi {player name}” chant. It also make us look like, heaven help us, Terrapin fans.

[duke2x]

The YS part has made a comeback in the past couple years. Coach K mostly put an end to it when I was a student. I confess that I enjoyed greeting Dean Smith that way as it was customary to include the opposing coach at the time.

[juise]

Say what you will about the new Crazies, but in my day, we never took on a case of the flu in the name of our team.

[dudog84]

I, for one, do not think showering Herman Veal with panties and condoms and holding up signs asking “Did you buy her flowers?” was rude. Herman Veal had been found liable for an attempted rape by the University of Maryland’s judicial board. It got worse when Lefty Driesell contacted the victim and asked her to drop the charges so that Veal could play in the ACC Tournament the year before. If we can make fun of players because of their height, weight, resemblance to Bob Marley or collapsed lung and that is clever, why could the Cameron Crazies or fans in any other arena not question why some rapeo is running around on their court and why someone thought it was a good idea to bring him.

A lot of the collective memory of that event was unfortunately shaped by the Washington Post, which was and still is one of the worst homer newspapers when it comes to Maryland Terrapin sports. Keep in mind that, prior to that incident, Lorenzo Charles had been showered with pizza boxes after being caught stealing pizzas and Chris Washburn had been showered with album covers after stealing a stereo. Most observers thought those episodes were funny. I am sure that they struck a raw nerve with some N.C. State fans, but they, for their part, were capable of recognizing that the underlying conduct was wrongful so there was no great outcry. But not Maryland fans. No, with their combination of exceptionalism and self regard, they took umbrage to the fact that anyone would even question the integrity of one of their players or their team, fairly or otherwise. The Washington Post decided to make, not the sexual assault, mind you, but the Cameron Crazies’ reaction to it a national issue with a column entitled “Majoring in Smart___.” (dewankerized version)

I am glad that someone posted the Avuncular Letter. It does contain sound advice and constructive criticism. However, notice that, even though it was the direct result of the Herman Veal incident, it does not directly reference it nor does it address the conduct associated with it. The letter devotes almost all of its space to the use of obscenities in cheers and decries the poverty of vocabulary and imagination that they represent. My understanding of the history of the Crazies was that they were indeed a lot cruder and rougher around the edges than they were when I was there and that changed because of the letter. However, I contend that the Herman Veal incident was essentially consistent with the letter’s call to be “clever but clean . . . mean but wholesome.” Unless you are offended by ladies’ unmentionables, it was the underlying subject matter that was obscene in the Herman Veal incident and not the words or actions used by the students.

There was another thread that asked when posters first became aware of or started supporting Duke Basketball. At the time, I was a high school junior living in Maryland who had never heard of Duke University and had not even started looking at colleges. I did not follow basketball either. I saw a story about the Herman Veal incident on the local television news complete with video and hand wringing and my reaction was, “That is hilarious!” I did not choose to go to Duke because of the Herman Veal incident, but it probably does illustrate why I fit in there and why I have a preexisting allergy to terping.

Speaking of the Avuncular Letter, I dislike the “you suck” welcome for the reasons stated in the letter. My understanding is that the “Hi, {player name}” chant during the introductions started at the home game following the Herman Veal incident and the Avuncular letter, which happened to be against UNC. During that game the Crazies were pretending to be reformed characters, wearing tin foil halos and holding up signs saying things such as, “A hearty welcome to Coach Smith and his boys!” and also, ironically given subsequent events, “Welcome fellow scholars!” The chant caught on because it was unique and funny at a time when most fan bases simply booed the opposing players as they were announced. That was the way it was when I was there from 1985-1991. (No, I was not especially dim. I stayed on for a masters and a J.D. in Smart___.) The “you suck” part was spontaneously added during a Carolina game a year or so after I left. It was funny, if at all, ONCE. I am sorry that it became a tradition especially given the origins of the “Hi {player name}” chant. It also make us look like, heaven help us, Terrapin fans.

Well stated, must be the lawyer in you.

[blazindw]

You gentleman, and I do use the term loosely, amuse me. Do you know what we had in common with the tennis balls? Someone to get it started and coordination. Therein lies the key... me and Viking with Pasha and Blazin (yes... different eras, but we were there a long dang time). Some cooperation and some communication. Talking before the game, dry erase board, whatever.

You know, that and Pepsi 152. That helps with the loudness.

And to Blazin and Native, I had these same conversations with a couple of folks in the basketball office a long time ago. There was interest, and we know most of the same people. Just sayin'...

I’m saying, the Phalanx, Native, weezie and myself? This would be so much fun!

And I agree with you that coordination is essential. That’s why I think we were very successful when I had the bullhorn: you guys would come up to me before a game with an idea, and we would execute it. The undergrads, grads, and even the band were in on some things. How did Speedo Guy’s plan work so well? It was the grad students coming up to me (when I was just a line monitor) and letting us know the plan and what he wanted us to do. The rest is history.

I will say the only thing that I could say has “deteriorated” over the years is the speed of the chants. They would start so fast that by the time you figure out what the chant is, it’s over. Starting much slower will get more involved. It’s something I’m constantly doing when running point for US Soccer fans to get the casuals involved. Having just the student section going nuts is one thing. But, the times Cameron has been the most powerful is when all 9,314 was involved in the action. That power starts with the students and if chants start out slower, that noise will build into the type that makes our team invincible.

[RPS]

I, for one, do not think showering Herman Veal with panties and condoms and holding up signs asking “Did you buy her flowers?” was rude.

I loved the "key chain jangle" for State's point guard, Clyde ("the Glide") Austin.

[Nugget]

I, for one, do not think showering Herman Veal with panties and condoms and holding up signs asking “Did you buy her flowers?” was rude. Herman Veal had been found liable for an attempted rape by the University of Maryland’s judicial board. It got worse when Lefty Driesell contacted the victim and asked her to drop the charges so that Veal could play in the ACC Tournament the year before. If we can make fun of players because of their height, weight, resemblance to Bob Marley or collapsed lung and that is clever, why could the Cameron Crazies or fans in any other arena not question why some rapeo is running around on their court and why someone thought it was a good idea to bring him.

A lot of the collective memory of that event was unfortunately shaped by the Washington Post, which was and still is one of the worst homer newspapers when it comes to Maryland Terrapin sports. Keep in mind that, prior to that incident, Lorenzo Charles had been showered with pizza boxes after being caught stealing pizzas and Chris Washburn had been showered with album covers after stealing a stereo. Most observers thought those episodes were funny. I am sure that they struck a raw nerve with some N.C. State fans, but they, for their part, were capable of recognizing that the underlying conduct was wrongful so there was no great outcry. But not Maryland fans. No, with their combination of exceptionalism and self regard, they took umbrage to the fact that anyone would even question the integrity of one of their players or their team, fairly or otherwise. The Washington Post decided to make, not the sexual assault, mind you, but the Cameron Crazies’ reaction to it a national issue with a column entitled “Majoring in Smart___.” (dewankerized version) ...

Speaking of the Avuncular Letter, I dislike the “you suck” welcome for the reasons stated in the letter. My understanding is that the “Hi, {player name}” chant during the introductions started at the home game following the Herman Veal incident and the Avuncular letter, which happened to be against UNC. During that game the Crazies were pretending to be reformed characters, wearing tin foil halos and holding up signs saying things such as, “A hearty welcome to Coach Smith and his boys!” and also, ironically given subsequent events, “Welcome fellow scholars!” The chant caught on because it was unique and funny at a time when most fan bases simply booed the opposing players as they were announced. That was the way it was when I was there from 1985-1991. (No, I was not especially dim. I stayed on for a masters and a J.D. in Smart___.) The “you suck” part was spontaneously added during a Carolina game a year or so after I left. It was funny, if at all, ONCE. I am sorry that it became a tradition especially given the origins of the “Hi {player name}” chant. It also make us look like, heaven help us, Terrapin fans.

I just don't think this is that complicated.

1. Sexual assault = never funny.

2. Petty larceny of pizza = always funny.

3. Larceny of stereo equipment by Chris Washburn = pretty much always funny.

"Hi, x" = mildly amusing.

"Hi, x, you suck" = not funny, purile and wholly unoriginal. Why the Crazies would ever copy Maryland fans is beyond me.

And, let me join the chorus that says more important than the specifics of a given clever or coordinated cheer are that the fans remain loud.

[DukieInKansas]

I loved the "key chain jangle" for State's point guard, Clyde ("the Glide") Austin.

And the follow up article in the Durham Morning Herald that only Duke students would have car keys to rattle. I did have a car key - but the car was in Texas where my Dad drove it. My dorm key, room key, and mailbox key sounded the same with or without a car key.

[dudog84]

Thought this was some pretty interesting history, most that I didn't know about. There was actually a pre-Avuncular Letter in '79. It's from the latest issue of Duke Magazine. Why don't we have more politicians like Terry Sanford anymore?

http://dukemagazine.duke.edu/article...-saves-the-day

[dudog84]

At least we can't blame today's loss on the Crazies...can we?