MBB: Duke vs Notre Dame (1/29, 7 pm, ESPN) Pre-game and In-game Thread

[gofurman]

I agree. I think 15-3 is more likely than 11-7.

Has Been odd. Either v easy w Pitt and Wake or we seem to get UVA. Not many middlin' good teams to measure against. FSU was one and they ate our D alive. Good win at Miami. Looked good v UVA. We haven't seen UNC or Clemson or Louisville yet.

[Devilwin]

It's so hard to predict when we are talking about freshmen. Talent wise, we can win all of our remaining games. But just look back to the UVA game. So many turnovers and missed free throws doomed us against a team we could and should have beaten. I feel the key to it all remains Grayson. He snaps out of his shooting funk, we can roll to the Final Four. He doesn't, we can be in for a roller coaster ride the rest of the way. He is the team leader, and I admire his attitude, he has the heart of a tiger.
Maybe he's trying too hard? I don't know, but we need his scoring I believe for a truly successful season.

[left_hook_lacey]

Vegas has us as a 14 point favorite. Should be a cake walk. Just gotta play smart, stay healthy.

[KShip21]

Vegas has us as a 14 point favorite. Should be a cake walk. Just gotta play smart, stay healthy.

and play zone...

[DukieInBrasil]

and play zone...

I don't know about zone vs. ND, they can really shoot the 3. I'm sure it will get sprinkled in from time to time, but i think K is gonna stick by Duke's porous m2m defense and hope the guys learn it a little better in this game.
I know i've been calling for Duke to abandon m2m defense, but if the zone isn't producing turnovers (like it did vs MSU) or bad shots (like briefly vs UVA) i'm not sure that it's a better option. It's just hard to teach Fr. how to play good defense, but from all appearances Duke's Fr. are getting better at defense, slowly.

[DavidBenAkiva]

Not sure why you think our 7-man rotation will have more energy than ND’s rotation such that we’ll get them tired on D. I fully expect us to win, but ND will come to Cameron desperate.

In ACC play, we haven’t proven much yet: 4 wins against the 2 poorest teams (1 combined win) and 2-3 against the competitive teams. I’m surprised expectations remain so high; will have to play at a high level to win 12 ACC games, and with a letdown in a game or 2; could easily finish only 11-7. Every remaining conference game should be competitive.

I don't share your pessimism towards this season. What I saw against UVA was a team that absolutely dominated the interior of the most vaunted defense in college basketball. Some are saying this is the best defensive team in recent history. It is according to some advanced stats (KenPom). And Duke erased a 13 point deficit against that defense like it was nothing. A couple of things break our way - making the front-end of 1-and-1 free throw opportunities, for example - and people are talking about Duke being the best team in the country this morning. We've seen real, sustained effort on defense. Even in the first half against UVA, we were holding them to less than 1 point per possession primarily playing man-to-man defense. In order for this Duke team to be elite, our guards need to play well. That's it. One improvement from Grayson, a couple of smarter plays from Trevon and Duke is as elite as any team in the nation. That's what I see.

[Troublemaker]

Vegas has us as a 14 point favorite. Should be a cake walk. Just gotta play smart, stay healthy.

and play zone...

Not happening, KShip21... You should know by now that Duke will be a m2m-first team under Coach K, whether that's right or wrong.

And I also disagree with the notion that Duke can't win comfortably tonight playing m2m for 40 minutes.

[CDu]

and play zone...

I don't know about zone vs. ND, they can really shoot the 3. I'm sure it will get sprinkled in from time to time, but i think K is gonna stick by Duke's porous m2m defense and hope the guys learn it a little better in this game.
I know i've been calling for Duke to abandon m2m defense, but if the zone isn't producing turnovers (like it did vs MSU) or bad shots (like briefly vs UVA) i'm not sure that it's a better option. It's just hard to teach Fr. how to play good defense, but from all appearances Duke's Fr. are getting better at defense, slowly.

Actually, this Notre Dame team isn't great at shooting the 3. Especially not without Farrell. They have just two guys shooting above 33% from 3pt range (Gibbs and Mooney). In ACC play, they are shooting just 33% from 3, good for 13th in the conference. Historically Notre Dame is a great 3pt shooting team. But that was back when they had guys like Beachem and Vasturia on the wings. Djogo and Pflueger are certainly capable of hitting 3s, but they haven't done so with any consistency.

That being said, I would probably still be okay with man-to-man in this game. Despite not having great shooters, Notre Dame also lacks playmakers without Colson and Farrell (and to a lesser degree Harvey). Gibbs is a terrific playmaker, but he's literally the only guy capable of getting a good shot for himself. So this is a good, fairly low-risk chance for the team to get better at man-to-man. We KNOW that Coach K is going to try his darnedest to get this team to play man-to-man. So any opportunity to work on it is a good thing.

[BobBender]

Discuss the Notre Dame game here.

I believe ND’s Gibbs is named ‘Temple’ , not Terrance. This on the heels of UVa’s backcourt being identified as ‘Travis’ Guy and ‘Travis’ Jerome in his Saturday evening piece. I know these articles are produced on the fly, but sloppy editing is becoming the norm.

[weezie]

I'll be silently congratulating Steve Vasturia for graduating last May. That guy used to just stiletto us. I thought he'd never leave.

[MrPoon]

Here is what I want from this game (I’m sure K and everyone here have been waiting to hear!)

1) Keep improving on our D. I’d like to attack a banged up team and create some turnovers with pressure. I’m not biased to M2M vs zone, I just want us to do it well! I do like the idea of going back and forth to keep teams on their heels.

2) Paging Grayson. He is contributing in a lot of ways. The double digit rebound game a few games ago, his leadership, back up PG duties, etc. But this team, will never be a great defensive team. They need to put pressure on the opposition lots of ways. And his outside shooting and his ability to drive off of that spacing helps the interior players and creates fouls. He’s a great FT shooter and we all know recently the wrong guys right now are getting to the line. To me this team’s ceiling is final four and maybe even a step below that depending on the bracket and depending on seeding if we can’t count on GA scoring 12ish pts. A couple threes, a couple drives and few FTs. It feels like this almost needs a separate thread. We track the D, we track dunks, but GAs offensive struggles are a surprise. I get a cold stretch but this feels even more than that.

3) Duval, I’m not going to restart the exhausting Duval debate (I really like him and his improvement may be our only hope for late season wins if GA doesn’t shake off this slump). But no one will argue he can still get better with his decision making and his scoring consistency. I’ve been particularly surprised with his struggles AT the rim, that isn’t him and I think that is an adoration. This is a game where his tempo will help and I’d love to see him keep taking steps and put the Wake game behind him.

4) Get healthy. Javin, Bolden and even O’Connell with the flu bug all need to get well and build more depth. We looked a step slow with 5 to go against Virginia. Which is to be expected with such long defensive possessions. I know this board loves Javin but I think a healthy, confident Bolden makes the opposition more nervous. The poor kid can’t stay healthy and fit but his size and shot blocking is a nice 6th man sub.

[thedukelamere]

3) Duval, I’m not going to restart the exhausting Duval debate (I really like him and his improvement may be our only hope for late season wins if GA doesn’t shake off this slump). But no one will argue he can still get better with his decision making and his scoring consistency.

I'm a firm believer in (unfortunately) needing to make memorable mistakes in order to truly learn, which is why I love watching Tricky's steady growth this season. Still prone to make an ill-timed mistake here or there, but it's usually not the same type of mistake... Hopefully his muscle memory will make his spidey-senses tingle the next time he has the opportunity to:

- Shoot a 3 early in the shot clock with 2 minutes to play protecting a small lead
- Drive 1 on 4 against the #1 defensive team in the country, leaving your feet and realizing there is no hope of an outlet pass opening up
- Throw full-court pass into triple coverage when you have a defensive minded team on the ropes in the half court

I predict he's going to play a smart, efficient game tonight, finishing with a double-double (13 pts, 11 ast) and earning a handful of MOTM votes.

[uh_no]

But this team, will never be a great defensive team.

Don't look...but this team's been playing great defense the past couple weeks...and the number they put up saturday would have us at third in the country...if that's not "great" or doesn't indicate that they can become great, then your standards are way too high.

To me this team’s ceiling is final four and maybe even a step below

uh what? Did we not just go toe to toe with arguably the best team in the country with a team who more than anyone is likely to not be playing up to their potential yet? and the CEILING is the final four? No. the ceiling is a banner. period. To argue that the most talented team in the country has no chance to win the championship is crazy.

Agree with everything else...but these two comments caught me out.

[Highlander]

I've got tickets tonight! I've only attended one other game in Cameron this year, which was the Pitt game a week and a half ago, so that bodes well for our chances.

Anyone who would like me to guarantee a win vs. UNC I will happily accept your ticket

[MrPoon]

Don't look...but this team's been playing great defense the past couple weeks...and the number they put up saturday would have us at third in the country...if that's not "great" or doesn't indicate that they can become great, then your standards are way too high.


uh what? Did we not just go toe to toe with arguably the best team in the country with a team who more than anyone is likely to not be playing up to their potential yet? and the CEILING is the final four? No. the ceiling is a banner. period. To argue that the most talented team in the country has no chance to win the championship is crazy.

Agree with everything else...but these two comments caught me out.

Thanks for the follow up, you are such an astute poster and I value your comments. Our D clearly has improved but I also think we’ve improved against offenses that aren’t great. I’m sure there are statistics to support the view that they are MUCH better. I watch teams still getting open threes, late pick-ups in transition, and uncertainty in our big men on who they have when offenses move the D around, especially teams that are good at perimeter screens. We are getting better than we were against BC no doubt. And I hope I’m wrong because being pretty good, would be more than enough with this offense and especially with the unstoppable force of Bagley. (By the way, his 30 against UVA has to merit some special recognition! Does UVA retire an opponents number if he gets 30 on a Bennett coached team?!).

Re the Final Four ceiling comment, you pulled out half the statement. This team can ABSOLUTELY win the whole thing and has the most talent in the country. My point was/is not without GA scoring in a more reliable manner. He doesn’t need to be Soph GA, he’s doing more nuanced things for this team but his offense will need to be a pillar that this team can count on when things get rough, and it’s not there now, nor has it been for awhile. That is all I’m suggesting. I can’t recall who recently wrote an article to that effect, maybe CBS, but I stand by the statement. We can debate why he is not looking the same but something is off. He is leading in so many ways, I really admire the year he is having. BUT there will be key games where their backs are against the wall and we’ll need his scoring and it has not been there (like Saturday).

[Dub]

uh what? Did we not just go toe to toe with arguably the best team in the country with a team who more than anyone is likely to not be playing up to their potential yet? and the CEILING is the final four? No. the ceiling is a banner. period. To argue that the most talented team in the country has no chance to win the championship is crazy.

Agree with everything else...but these two comments caught me out.

The ceiling is without question...THE ROOF! Looking forward to a dominating performance tonight. Find me in the in-game thread with infinite optimism.

[wavedukefan70s]

40 minutes of solid focused basketball.if we are up by 3 or 35 .I just hope for the same intensity.im also going watch Grayson wrist/hand.it may just be me.but I swear he has been flexing and shaking it last few games.maybe I'm just crazy .we shall know soon enough.this could be the turning point of our season.

[dukelifer]

40 minutes of solid focused basketball.if we are up by 3 or 35 .I just hope for the same intensity.im also going watch Grayson wrist/hand.it may just be me.but I swear he has been flexing and shaking it last few games.maybe I'm just crazy .we shall know soon enough.this could be the turning point of our season.

Can’t see how he could have hurt it- it is not like he is reckless with his body.

[Kedsy]

this could be the turning point of our season.

Turning from what to what? I know we just lost a game, but we've won 5 of 6 and we're #4 in the country.

[CDu]

Turning from what to what? I know we just lost a game, but we've won 5 of 6 and we're #4 in the country.

Right, if there was to be a turning point, it would have to be the State game. Since then, our defense has played consistently well against a variety of opponents. Prior to that, the defense was playing badly.

Of course, at that point we were still a top-5 team. But we were trending in the wrong direction as of State, and since have played really well again.

I don’t think a close loss to another elite team is a turning point.