Tiger Woods

[Tripping William]

This is a great play off. Day and Noren going until Monday.

That’s what I was just about to say. Tiger, Schmiger. That (still-going) playoff between J-Day and Noren was awesome theater.

[dudog84]

Looks like Tiger will be flirting with the cut line again. 88 guys on the course so far, he finished at +1 and tied for 51st currently.

[JasonEvans]

Tiger has a fairly late tee time today, 3:02pm. He is currently right on the projected cut line of +1 (so is Dukie Kevin Streelman).

-Jason "as an aside, Arnold Palmer's grandson Sam Saunders got his PGA Tour card this year and is currently in 2nd place in the Genesis Open... kinda cool" Evans

[BD80]

... "as an aside, Arnold Palmer's grandson Sam Saunders got his PGA Tour card this year and is currently in 2nd place in the Genesis Open... kinda cool" ...

Harrumph ...

That kid can definitely get off of my lawn ...

Some stuff really makes you feel old. I had just kinda gotten used to seeing the kids of guys I watched play college ball being college stars.

[JasonEvans]

Tiger is 3-over through 9 holes. He will likely need to shoot 2-under or better on the back 9 to make the weekend.

In other news, he has committed to play in the Honda Classic next week, meaning he feels healthy enough to play in back-to-back weekends.

[CDu]

Tiger is 3-over through 9 holes. He will likely need to shoot 2-under or better on the back 9 to make the weekend.

In other news, he has committed to play in the Honda Classic next week, meaning he feels healthy enough to play in back-to-back weekends.

That is the biggest test in my opinion. If he is able to play competitive golf (and being right around the cut line IS still competitive golf) in back-to-back weeks, that would suggest that the physical limitations are past-tense. From there, it is a question of getting in “game reps” under the pressure of a tourney.

[BD80]

Tiger is 3-over through 9 holes. He will likely need to shoot 2-under or better on the back 9 to make the weekend.

In other news, he has committed to play in the Honda Classic next week, meaning he feels healthy enough to play in back-to-back weekends.

Blew up on back, 4 bogeys. Finished 5 over.

In other news, he'll be able to rest up for next week.

[duketaylor]

"meaning he feels healthy enough to play in back-to-back weekends." Well, he isn't playing this weekend, sadly, but it is positive he'll be playing back-to-back tourneys, so he feels well. He's prepping for Augusta, pure and simple. Please stay healthy, Eldrick. We want a healthy and solid performance in April!!

[dudog84]

This must have been what it was like to watch Willie Mays with the Mets in 1973 or Ali at the end. Makes me appreciate those who know when to go out on top even more.

[CDu]

This must have been what it was like to watch Willie Mays with the Mets in 1973 or Ali at the end. Makes me appreciate those who know when to go out on top even more.

Hardly. Good players often still miss cuts. For a guy who hasn’t played competitively for years, it is not surprising to see a missed cut. Obviously making the cut would be better, but missing a cut isn’t necessarily a sign of the end for Woods.

Also, I don’t get why folks see value in “knowing when to go out on top”. Why should athletes strive to retire on other people’s terms?

[dudog84]

Hardly. Good players often still miss cuts. For a guy who hasn’t played competitively for years, it is not surprising to see a missed cut. Obviously making the cut would be better, but missing a cut isn’t necessarily a sign of the end for Woods.

Also, I don’t get why folks see value in “knowing when to go out on top”. Why should athletes strive to retire on other people’s terms?

It's been 10 years since he won a major. As you said, he hasn't been competitive for years. He just finished +6, tied for 116th, 13 shots behind the leaders. He barely made the cut at Torrey Pines a few weeks ago, a course that he used to own.

The guy was dominant in his prime. He's not going to win again. I'll be slightly surprised if he ever makes a top 10.

He can do what he wants, but going out on top is not necessarily other people's terms. Maybe trying to compete after you've lost it is other people's terms.

[CDu]

It's been 10 years since he won a major. As you said, he hasn't been competitive for years. He just finished +6, tied for 116th, 13 shots behind the leaders. He barely made the cut at Torrey Pines a few weeks ago, a course that he used to own.

He hasn't been participating in years, which is what I was saying. He's been very competitive since his last major win. As recently as 2013, he had two top-10s in majors. He's been hurt ever since. He is 2+ seasons removed from his last top-10 finish in any event. And he's only played 1 tournament in the last 2+ years prior to this weekend.

The guy was dominant in his prime. He's not going to win again. I'll be slightly surprised if he ever makes a top 10.

He might not win again. I'd be quite surprised if he's never again a top-10 finisher. Golf just isn't the type of sport where one should make declarative statements that so-and-so won't win or finish top-10 again. Too much randomness in the sport for that, and careers are just too long.

I completely agree that he's not going to be the golfer he once was. But that's because NOBODY is likely to match what he once was. And he doesn't have to match that player to be a competitive golfer again and have chances to win tournaments.

He can do what he wants, but going out on top is not necessarily other people's terms. Maybe trying to compete after you've lost it is other people's terms.

Retiring based on what other people value is going out on other people's terms.

[dudog84]

He hasn't been participating in years, which is what I was saying. He's been very competitive since his last major win. As recently as 2013, he had two top-10s in majors. He's been hurt ever since. He is 2+ seasons removed from his last top-10 finish in any event. And he's only played 1 tournament in the last 2+ years prior to this weekend.



He might not win again. I'd be quite surprised if he's never again a top-10 finisher. Golf just isn't the type of sport where one should make declarative statements that so-and-so won't win or finish top-10 again. Too much randomness in the sport for that, and careers are just too long.

I completely agree that he's not going to be the golfer he once was. But that's because NOBODY is likely to match what he once was. And he doesn't have to match that player to be a competitive golfer again and have chances to win tournaments.




Retiring based on what other people value is going out on other people's terms.

Well, since you want to argue point by point. This one, I'm not even going to bother, because though your tone was of disagreement everything you wrote supported my comment.

This one is just a wow. "Golf just isn't the type of sport where one should make declarative statements", but "NOBODY (emphasis yours) is likely to match what he once was". It appears irony will be the only winner in this debate. So I'm out.

Again, sticking it out when you're a shell of your former self might be "what other people value". You do, I don't. It's just an opinion. You're welcome to yours, therefore I should be welcome to mine, but you can't change that fact.

[CDu]

Well, since you want to argue point by point. This one, I'm not even going to bother, because though your tone was of disagreement everything you wrote supported my comment.

This one is just a wow. "Golf just isn't the type of sport where one should make declarative statements", but "NOBODY (emphasis yours) is likely to match what he once was". It appears irony will be the only winner in this debate. So I'm out.

Umm, you do understand the difference between “will never win again” and “nobody will LIKELY ever be as dominant again”, right? One is a declaration with no uncertainty, and about a very low bar. The other is neither a statement of certainty nor a statement about something of a low bar at all.

Suffice to say we are indeed in disagreement if you feel with any sort of certainty that Woods will never win again.

Again, sticking it out when you're a shell of your former self might be "what other people value". You do, I don't. It's just an opinion. You're welcome to yours, therefore I should be welcome to mine, but you can't change that fact.

I actually don’t “value” sticking it out OR retiring. My entire point was that it is none of our business when he retires. It is his life, he should be able to retire or not of his own accord.

[dudog84]

Umm, you do understand the difference between “will never win again” and “nobody will LIKELY ever be as dominant again”, right? One is a declaration with no uncertainty, and about a very low bar. The other is neither a statement of certainty nor a statement about something of a low bar at all.

Suffice to say we are indeed in disagreement if you feel with any sort of certainty that Woods will never win again.



I actually don’t “value” sticking it out OR retiring. My entire point was that it is none of our business when he retires. It is his life, he should be able to retire or not of his own accord.

This is going nowhere. You can send me a pie in a few years when my "declarative statement", which was never anything more than an opinion, proves to be true.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Well, since you want to argue point by point. This one, I'm not even going to bother, because though your tone was of disagreement everything you wrote supported my comment.

This one is just a wow. "Golf just isn't the type of sport where one should make declarative statements", but "NOBODY (emphasis yours) is likely to match what he once was". It appears irony will be the only winner in this debate. So I'm out.

Only a Sith deals in absolutes.

[CDu]

This is going nowhere. You can send me a pie in a few years when my "declarative statement", which was never anything more than an opinion, proves to be true.

I never said Woods would definitely win again. Just that I wouldn’t confidently say he won’t. win again.

And it will be more than a few years more of not winning that we’d have to wait. He has another 8 years of PGA Tour events.

[snowdenscold]

It's been 10 years since he won a major. As you said, he hasn't been competitive for years.

He hasn't been participating in years, which is what I was saying. He's been very competitive since his last major win. As recently as 2013, he had two top-10s in majors. He's been hurt ever since. He is 2+ seasons removed from his last top-10 finish in any event. And he's only played 1 tournament in the last 2+ years prior to this weekend.

Now, unlike tennis rankings, I know very little about how golf rankings work other than it's based on a rolling 2-year window, but I'm still somewhat surprised Tiger held the #1 ranking for over a year from 2013 - May 2014. Part of me has this vague notion that he fell off a cliff and never recovered after the Thanksgiving 2008 incident, but I guess that isn't really the case. Now although that was almost 4 years ago now, it's better than 9+ years, right?

[dudog84]

Now, unlike tennis rankings, I know very little about how golf rankings work other than it's based on a rolling 2-year window, but I'm still somewhat surprised Tiger held the #1 ranking for over a year from 2013 - May 2014. Part of me has this vague notion that he fell off a cliff and never recovered after the Thanksgiving 2008 incident, but I guess that isn't really the case. Now although that was almost 4 years ago now, it's better than 9+ years, right?

Yes. Tiger has won 8 times since '09, all of those wins coming in '12 and '13. Hence the #1 ranking. But I think this latest back surgery was his 4th, and this one included fusing some vertebrae. What happens when you take away a few degrees of a golfer's rotation? Add in some knee surgeries as well. Age is rarely an athlete's friend after 30, maybe 35.

Tiger will be almost 42 and a half when the Masters rolls around. I couldn't find anything listing more than the 10 oldest golfers to win a major, but #10 was 43 years and 4 months. Importantly (to me), the most recent of those top 10 was in 1990. Note that date. Because that was just a few years before Tiger showed up and golf earnings exploded. Winners now regularly make over $1.2 million for a win. There's at least 10 tournaments a year that pay over $1.6 million. That's more by far than Jack Nicklaus made in his best YEAR. In 1986, he made $144,000 for winning the Masters.

Money has made the competition much tougher and deeper. I don't see how he can beat all these guys. Yeah, he might catch lightning in a bottle, but I just don't see it.

[left_hook_lacey]

Tiger finished tied for 21st today, but only four shots off the lead. He shot even par, leader is at -4.