Grayson's Unique Jumper

[Spanarkel]

We're all hoping for Grayson to find his jumper(while he continues to contribute mightily to the team in many other facets of the game), but I think that he truly has a very unique shooting form:

JUST AS HE RELEASES THE BALL(on his long jumpers), his eyes go from being fixed on the rim to following the flight of the ball.

This is shown in the following two photos from GoDuke from the recent Pitt game(nos. 2 and 4):http://www.goduke.com/PhotoAlbum.dbm...DB_OEM_ID=4200

Photo no. 26/30 from GoDuke's coverage of the last night's Miami game clearly show his eyes fixed on the rim just prior to launching his shot: http://www.goduke.com/PhotoAlbum.dbm...DB_OEM_ID=4200

It looks as if he has been shooting this way for quite some time(very similar form from the 2/9/17 unc game, again on GoDuke), and I know shooters can have idiosyncrasies in the shot that "work for them" and don't need to be changed.

Other posters have recently commented on his lift on his jumper and his turning this upper body slightly to one side, factors that may be having more influence than where his eyes are looking, but it is certainly a unique feature of his jumper not practiced by many other shooters whose form I've studied(JJ et al).

[rsvman]

Has he been doing this throughout his career?

I don't think it is at all a good idea to look at the ball. I can't think of any excellent shooters who do so.

[mkirsh]

Has he been doing this throughout his career?

I don't think it is at all a good idea to look at the ball. I can't think of any excellent shooters who do so.

After the release it shouldn't matter, and I can think of reasons where looking at the ball is better than staring at the rim: 1) self diagnosis if arc or rotation of the shot isn't right, and 2) if the ball is going to miss, better chance to try to grab your own long rebound.

[CDu]

After the release it shouldn't matter, and I can think of reasons where looking at the ball is better than staring at the rim: 1) self diagnosis if arc or rotation of the shot isn't right, and 2) if the ball is going to miss, better chance to try to grab your own long rebound.

The question is whether or not he is waiting until fully after the release to track said arc. Those pics look like he is watching the ball AWFULLY close to the release point. It is hard to imagine his reflexes being that quick.

That being said, Allen is shooting 38.8% this season and 38.6% for his career. And he has had several shots JUST rim out recently in his slump. So I think the kvetching over his form (both in this thread and by others in other threads) is probably misplaced. If four of those 3s fell in the last 5 games, we are talking about a 42% shooter for the year and 34% over that 5-game stretch.

This isn’t the first mini-slump Allen has had this year either. He went 4-23 in the 4 games immediately following the MSU barrage. He then bounced back with a 12-21 stretch the next 4 games.

[DU82]

The question is whether or not he is waiting until fully after the release to track said arc. Those pics look like he is watching the ball AWFULLY close to the release point. It is hard to imagine his reflexes being that quick.

I looked at the basket when I shot the ball. Didn't help.

[Duke76]

I looked at the basket when I shot the ball. Didn't help.

as I have stated in another thread..."paging Chip Engelland"

[gep]

Not only do I think i saw Grayson follow the path of the ball... but in at least a few cases, I thought I saw him switching glances between the path of the ball and the rim... like what golfers do after they hit their drives, switching between the golf ball and the golf course. At least that's what Grayson reminded me of...

[KandG]

Has he been doing this throughout his career?

I don't think it is at all a good idea to look at the ball. I can't think of any excellent shooters who do so.

Not sure where this is coming from: many of the very best shooters look at the ball, though across the basketball spectrum it's largely individual preference. Check this excerpt from an article featuring Golden State Warriors' assistant and Steph Curry shooting partner Bruce Fraser:

How To Shoot Like Steph

"As he shoots, Curry points his feet slightly to the left, as many right-handed shooters do, and will pivot in mid-air to align them if needed. Once the shot is up, he is a “ball watcher," keeping his eyes on the flight of his shot, rather than the rim. Kerr, Miller and Nash were also ball watchers, and Fraser believes nearly all the best shooters are."

Here's a very short video from 5 years ago where Luol Deng and Andre Iguodala are miked up during the NBA All-Star game talking about this very subject (look at the ball or rim?), and Reggie Miller and Steve Kerr follow up with comments. Fascinating for people who like to study shooting.

For what it's worth, I don't think Grayson's recent shooting issues have anything to do with his basic form, and I do consider him an excellent shooter.

[Duke76]

Not sure where this is coming from: many of the very best shooters look at the ball, though across the basketball spectrum it's largely individual preference. Check this excerpt from an article featuring Golden State Warriors' assistant and Steph Curry shooting partner Bruce Fraser:

How To Shoot Like Steph

"As he shoots, Curry points his feet slightly to the left, as many right-handed shooters do, and will pivot in mid-air to align them if needed. Once the shot is up, he is a “ball watcher," keeping his eyes on the flight of his shot, rather than the rim. Kerr, Miller and Nash were also ball watchers, and Fraser believes nearly all the best shooters are."

Here's a very short video from 5 years ago where Luol Deng and Andre Iguodala are miked up during the NBA All-Star game talking about this very subject (look at the ball or rim?), and Reggie Miller and Steve Kerr follow up with comments. Fascinating for people who like to study shooting.

For what it's worth, I don't think Grayson's recent shooting issues have anything to do with his basic form, and I do consider him an excellent shooter.

I think his elbow is not tuck correctly or as tight as it should be...film time!!

[left_hook_lacey]

After the release it shouldn't matter, and I can think of reasons where looking at the ball is better than staring at the rim: 1) self diagnosis if arc or rotation of the shot isn't right, and 2) if the ball is going to miss, better chance to try to grab your own long rebound.

This.

Shooting is like hitting a drive in golf. You don't look for the ball until after you've made contact and are finishing the follow-through. At that point, it doesn't matter anymore and it can help you chase down your own rebound if you've been assigned to crash the boards. Nobody can predict which way a shot will bounce as well as the person that shot it.

I think Grayson's shot looks fine. Well, it looks like it always has, which has worked for him so far. Shooters go through slumps. It happens. The only thing we have to worry about is if he loses the confidence to shoot. Then, you have a real problem.

[DukeFanSince1990]

Not sure where this is coming from: many of the very best shooters look at the ball, though across the basketball spectrum it's largely individual preference. Check this excerpt from an article featuring Golden State Warriors' assistant and Steph Curry shooting partner Bruce Fraser:

How To Shoot Like Steph

"As he shoots, Curry points his feet slightly to the left, as many right-handed shooters do, and will pivot in mid-air to align them if needed. Once the shot is up, he is a “ball watcher," keeping his eyes on the flight of his shot, rather than the rim. Kerr, Miller and Nash were also ball watchers, and Fraser believes nearly all the best shooters are."

Here's a very short video from 5 years ago where Luol Deng and Andre Iguodala are miked up during the NBA All-Star game talking about this very subject (look at the ball or rim?), and Reggie Miller and Steve Kerr follow up with comments. Fascinating for people who like to study shooting.

For what it's worth, I don't think Grayson's recent shooting issues have anything to do with his basic form, and I do consider him an excellent shooter.

For what its worth, I knew Miller watched the ball after the release and when I started to do so in high school (because of Miller), I became the best 3 point shooter on my high school team. It lets you know if you are putting the right arc and spin on it.

[rsvman]

Not sure where this is coming from: many of the very best shooters look at the ball, though across the basketball spectrum it's largely individual preference. Check this excerpt from an article featuring Golden State Warriors' assistant and Steph Curry shooting partner Bruce Fraser:

How To Shoot Like Steph

"As he shoots, Curry points his feet slightly to the left, as many right-handed shooters do, and will pivot in mid-air to align them if needed. Once the shot is up, he is a “ball watcher," keeping his eyes on the flight of his shot, rather than the rim. Kerr, Miller and Nash were also ball watchers, and Fraser believes nearly all the best shooters are."

Here's a very short video from 5 years ago where Luol Deng and Andre Iguodala are miked up during the NBA All-Star game talking about this very subject (look at the ball or rim?), and Reggie Miller and Steve Kerr follow up with comments. Fascinating for people who like to study shooting.

For what it's worth, I don't think Grayson's recent shooting issues have anything to do with his basic form, and I do consider him an excellent shooter.

I stand corrected.

[devilsince1977]

Shooting is a perishable skill. You need to shoot everyday to maintain the extraordinary skill Grayson was showing the first few games. He had been practicing in the same gym, with the same balls, at similar times for weeks. Then the travel started, the holidays came around, and his routine was interrupted. I think he will get back to his normal 40%+ soon, but I doubt he starts hitting at 55% like he was early. He is also being defended by the best perimeter defender on each team Duke plays. They are usually just as athletic and in most cases a little larger than him. Plus there is the "Grayson" effect, ("look at me, I shut down Grayson Allen. The biggest name in college hoops"). I would like to see Duval setting some off ball screens for Grayson when Tre's man is doubling the post. That will leave no one to rotate onto Grayson. It is a simple offensive tactic to make teams pay for doubling off a poor shooter. Grayson setting some off ball screens will also help free him up as much as him running off screens.

[Spanarkel]

Not sure where this is coming from: many of the very best shooters look at the ball, though across the basketball spectrum it's largely individual preference. Check this excerpt from an article featuring Golden State Warriors' assistant and Steph Curry shooting partner Bruce Fraser:

How To Shoot Like Steph

"As he shoots, Curry points his feet slightly to the left, as many right-handed shooters do, and will pivot in mid-air to align them if needed. Once the shot is up, he is a “ball watcher," keeping his eyes on the flight of his shot, rather than the rim. Kerr, Miller and Nash were also ball watchers, and Fraser believes nearly all the best shooters are."

Here's a very short video from 5 years ago where Luol Deng and Andre Iguodala are miked up during the NBA All-Star game talking about this very subject (look at the ball or rim?), and Reggie Miller and Steve Kerr follow up with comments. Fascinating for people who like to study shooting.

For what it's worth, I don't think Grayson's recent shooting issues have anything to do with his basic form, and I do consider him an excellent shooter.

I looked at hundreds of in-game photos and videos of Steph shooting, and I can't find one of him DURING A GAME where he is tracking his shot and not looking at the rim. I did find numerous photos of Kerr and Reggie Miller tracking the ball. As I indicated in the initial comments, a lot of great shooters have idiosyncrasies in their form that don't need to be altered due to long-term success. I wasn't at all suggesting that Grayson consider altering his form.