MBB: Duke 89, Wake Forest 71 Post-Game Thread

[WVDUKEFAN]

6 assists, 1 TO ... really?

Sometimes you have to look beyond the stat lines. The statisticians were generous to him. Don't get me wrong. I think the young man is getting better. He just tried to make spectacular plays when he should have made a basketball play.

[uh_no]

Marvin Bagley III is the best and most talented freshman to ever play for Duke and quite possibly anyone else as well. I've never seen a big man who can do so many things and do them as well. Tim Duncan comes to mind, but Marvin is far more talented. We ain't seen nothing yet.

perhaps you've heard of trae young? Bagley may not even be the most talented in his own class, let alone ever.

Bagley is spectacular, no doubt, but what young is doing is otherworldly. To put a geek-twist on it, the gap between #1 trae and #2 bagley in kenpoms POTY stat is greater than the gap between 2 and 10...by a healthy margin.

[MrPoon]

I’m not analytical enough to watch this game and tell if we are getting better or Wake had a poor game... possibly both. Maybe we are better at D w/o K! Joking. How bad was our really game shooting? Hate the early games.

First GA, his shot isn’t there, which is socking to me because he is so good. But after the MSU game, this may be my favorite game of his, assists, D, communication, and rebounding. What more do you want from a senior leader in a shooting funk?

Bagley, words are starting to run short. I listen to the Game Theory podcast and last week they debated Bagley in the NBA. Maybe worth a separate thread but it was an interesting debate. His guest had Bagley 7th in the draft (I started yelling obscenities at him by the end of the podcast) but they both had questions about his interior D. Can he bulk up enough and why, at his size, doesn’t he block more shots? The host ultimately had him 2 or 3 depending on which team is drafting and if they need a PG. Both thought Ayton had a chance of being hall of fame great and worth the risk. But Bagley was the most guaranteed, risk free all-star in this class. He gets a mid range jumper and DEAR LORD!

Duval. I still love his game and its good to see the three starting to get more reliable (low bar). You can tell the staff is looking to get him more involved because he seems to be expanding where he shoots from. I like the way his head is up and looking when the D isn’t sent. He isn’t always successful but he puts a ton of pressure on a slow to recover D by driving it into the paint. This may be controversial but I think Duval has the highest ceiling of any player on this team. He is still so raw. GA will break out of his funk, Trent is starting to find his roll, Bagley is insane and so is Carter but Duval can get soooo much better. It won’t all happen this year but if enough does, it may be the difference. (The aforementioned podcast asked if Duval, without a jump shot is an NBA player at all, but still had him around 26).

Oh and two quickies, can some of us donate a few lbs to AOC? Because with a little weight I think the kid is going to have a fun career. And yes, I’m down for one of those Bag T’s, those were awesome.

Got to break this funk against Miami!

[aimo]

Just wondering what the commentators were saying about the horrific officiating. That one guy called the foul on Carter under the basket in the first half that was clearly all ball. Then he was the same one with the "inadvertent" whistle?!? Inadvertent means he blew it accidentally. He blew the whistle on purpose, then couldn't think of what to call. THEN, they gave the ball to Wake even though Bagley was clearly holding the ball when the whistle blew. Coach K would have blown a gasket had he been there. That guy needs to find another career.

Trent was amazing with his threes, especially considering he was puking his guts out on the bench in the first half.

[construe]

...can some of us donate a few lbs to AOC? Because with a little weight I think the kid is going to have a fun career.

Probably an old chestnut, but I laughed out loud when the play-by-play called him the "Slim Reaper" after he hit a few 3s...

[MrPoon]

Probably an old chestnut, but I laughed out loud when the play-by-play called him the "Slim Reaper" after he hit a few 3s...

I too laughed out loud (an actual LOL!), my youngest even came in to ask what I was laughing at. Don’t know if that was of Mike’s making or not but that was brilliant.

[nmduke2001]

I too laughed out loud (an actual LOL!), my youngest even came in to ask what I was laughing at. Don’t know if that was of Mike’s making or not but that was brilliant.

People have been calling Kevin Durant that for some time. He does not like it.

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/k...aper-nickname/

[construe]

Yeah, I figured it was too obv to not have been used before. But since I'm not generally an NBA watcher, I hadn't heard it.

But like MrPoon, my kids also wanted to know what the heck I was laughing about. After I told them, they kept asking when the Slim Reaper was getting back in the game.

[uh_no]

He blew the whistle on purpose, then couldn't think of what to call.

I'm not sure what you're trying to prove with this statement. It was the definition of an inadvertent whistle.

Section 20. Inadvertent Whistle
Art. 1. An inadvertent whistle occurs any time an official blows the whistle by
mistake and does not have a call to make.

He made the "tipped" sign while blowing it, and realized he shouldn't have blown it at all.

THEN, they gave the ball to Wake even though Bagley was clearly holding the ball when the whistle blew.

This was absolutely the wrong call. alternating possession only applies after when no team was in clear control, which carter was.

[porkpa]

perhaps you've heard of trae young? Bagley may not even be the most talented in his own class, let alone ever.

Bagley is spectacular, no doubt, but what young is doing is otherworldly. To put a geek-twist on it, the gap between #1 trae and #2 bagley in kenpoms POTY stat is greater than the gap between 2 and 10...by a healthy margin.

You obviously missed the word "possibly"

[MartyClark]

perhaps you've heard of trae young? Bagley may not even be the most talented in his own class, let alone ever.

Bagley is spectacular, no doubt, but what young is doing is otherworldly. To put a geek-twist on it, the gap between #1 trae and #2 bagley in kenpoms POTY stat is greater than the gap between 2 and 10...by a healthy margin.

I don't follow or understand kenpoms metrics. Bagley is unbelievably good. So is Trae Young. I think any attempt to quantify or rate their greatness through stats tell part. but not all, of the story.

Go Duke. Go Marvin.

[Acymetric]

Marvin Bagley III is the best and most talented freshman to ever play for Duke and quite possibly anyone else as well. I've never seen a big man who can do so many things and do them as well. Tim Duncan comes to mind, but Marvin is far more talented. We ain't seen nothing yet.

Offensively that is probably true, but while Bagley isn't a bad defender he is no Tim Duncan.

[AtlDuke72]

O’Connell scores 13 points in 15 minutes. Not a word about him ! I am guessing that Duke playing zone keeps him in the floor longer. The kid is really good!

[AtlDuke72]

Offensively that is probably true, but while Bagley isn't a bad defender he is no Tim Duncan.

He is much better offensively than Duncan ever hoped to be.

[ncexnyc]

Offensively that is probably true, but while Bagley isn't a bad defender he is no Tim Duncan.

What are you comparing? Is it MBIII the freshman vs TD the freshman or MBIII the freshman vs TD the senior?

[Neals384]

6 assists, 1 TO ... really?

You sure you aren't confusing Duval for Grayson regarding throwing it away on the break? Allen made a few poor decisions today in would-be fast break situations.

Not trying to jump on the Duval beat-down, but he actually had three turnovers - there were two scoring errors on turnovers that should have been scored to Duval. The first one was on the Duval pass that sent Allen into the cameraman at 16:46 of the second half. That was credited to Bagley, who had nothing to do with it - he grabbed a rebound and passed to Duval, who threw it too far.


The second one was at 13:38 of the second half. Rebound by Carter, outlet to Duval, 3/4 court pass over Bagley's head into the cheap seats. That one was credited to Allen, who never touched the ball.


The only turnover assigned to Duval was on his offensive foul later in the second half.


By the way I heard the regular scorekeeper was sick and Duval's cousin filled in for him.

[CDu]

Neals is correct. Duval did throw two fast break passes out of bounds that somehow didn’t get credited to him. Still, not an awful game from him. But 6-1 assist-turnover ratio today is misleading for sure.

[kAzE]

Excellent team win here. Bagley is the best Duke freshman ever. No question about that anymore.

A couple of observations now that we've seen Jeff Capel as the substitute head coach for a few games now: Capel seems to play a deeper rotation than Coach K. It's happened every game K missed last year, and it was the case again tonight. (I'm crediting the bench's extensive minutes in the Pitt game to how bad Pitt is. This was a much more competitive opponent) Guys got off the bench early, played longer, and contributed. It was nice to see. O'Connell had the best game of the subs, but it was interesting to see J-Rob as the first guy off the bench. Still no Javin or Marques, sadly. Jack White had a couple strong rebounds against Wake's undersized front court. Looks like he put on some muscle this year, which is a good combo with his natural toughness.

Coach Capel also used much more zone than we've played since ACC games started, and it worked to hold Wake to less than a point per possession. It remains to be seen how good defensively we can be with the traditional M2M scheme, which is obviously a work in progress, but it's nice to know that we can go to the zone and play some adequate defense. If the M2M doesn't improve within the next month, there's a case to be made that we're just a better fit for zone this year.

I really haven't see enough hype about Grayson's game today. Some posts saying he played "solid," but I thought he was great. This is what you hope your star players can do if their shot isn't going down: contribute in other areas, and that is exactly what he did. He had at least 2 incredible passes this game. The lob from behind halfcourt to Bagley for the alley-oop was absurd. He put that thing in the exact right spot for Bagley to slam it down in stride. He also had a 1 handed cross court pass to Gary for a 3 that was lightning quick and on the money, right into Gary's shooting motion. He will find a way out of this shooting slump, but if he keeps playing like this, we will probably keep winning, regardless.

[lotusland]

Neals is correct. Duval did throw two fast break passes out of bounds that somehow didn’t get credited to him. Still, not an awful game from him. But 6-1 assist-turnover ratio today is misleading for sure.

Also in the second half shortly after the foul TO that was credited, Duval drove into a crowded lane out of control and got packed. Defender then caught the ball himself. So as good as another TO. It was a shaky stretch for Duval. He did hit Grayson with a Long pass that was perfectly placed for a three that rimmed out. Then he found Allen again for a three that Grayson drained but it didn’t count because Duval got called for a moving screen. Not a bad game over all but he was playing a little too out of control for a bit.

[lotusland]

As Capel mentioned Grayson had a great all around game...I would just like to see him have a shooting night like Trent did today. He will I'm sure, just rooting for him.

Trent had several wide open shots from three. Grayson has been guarded much closer on the 3 point line than Gary lately. That may change if Trent stays hot.