Interesting perspective from ex-UNC athlete

[arnie]

Hope I’m allowed to post this

http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/college/acc/article194229694.html

[dudog84]

Thanks for sharing that. My only problem is her statement that she attended "one of the top public universities in the nation".

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Hope I’m allowed to post this

http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/college/acc/article194229694.html

This will generate some discussion.

/goes to get his popcorn

[uh_no]

Hope I’m allowed to post this

http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/college/acc/article194229694.html

so...she's willing to pay back her scholarship then? It seems she's taking advantage of the system as much as all the people she criticizes for being fans.

I understand taking advantage of a system that is poorly set up...I don't pay more taxes than I have to out of altruism...but she doesn't actually answer the question of whether she would forego her own advantage (and by extension all those non-revenue athletes that benefit) in order to change the system.

From a utilitarian perspective, is the system doing more good overall by helping people like her?

I don't know. I don't think she really shares anything new here.

[Bob Green]

From a utilitarian perspective, is the system doing more good overall by helping people like her?

Yes it is. While the system is flawed, I'd say helping all the non revenue student athletes is one of the system's strong points.

[CDu]

so...she's willing to pay back her scholarship then? It seems she's taking advantage of the system as much as all the people she criticizes for being fans.

I understand taking advantage of a system that is poorly set up...I don't pay more taxes than I have to out of altruism...but she doesn't actually answer the question of whether she would forego her own advantage (and by extension all those non-revenue athletes that benefit) in order to change the system.

From a utilitarian perspective, is the system doing more good overall by helping people like her?

I don't know. I don't think she really shares anything new here.

I am not sure I understand the need to bash her here. She fully admits that she benefited from the system. In fact, she states emphatically that the system is designed to benefit her at the expense of others. That she is saying it and not someone in the “we were wronged” position makes it a more relevant message in my opinion.

And she is right in many ways: athletes in revenue sports aren’t afforded the same academic opportunities as nonrevenue athletes.

I don’t see the need to ask her to give back her scholarship. Frankly, that seems likeetes in a petty response to this article. I think she is simply voicing the problrm from a perspective not commonly seen. And I think there is value there.

While I am not in favor of paying players, I would be in favor of reforming the system such that athletes in revenue sports get an opportunity for a real education. Maybe it is an offer to pay for those kids whom they recruit to get a real education from that school after their eligibility is complete or something similar, I think reform is due. And I hope this article helps further that cause.

[Wander]

Despite my eye-rolling at this board bringing up the UNC cheating scandal in every unrelated thread possible (the NFL playoff thread, really?), it's a bit hard to talk about the specific issue of racial inequality that the writer focuses on without considering that her view may be what it is because UNC is especially bad among universities in that area with the African American Studies department scandal.

There are some good points here (like the difference in time commitment between sports), but she brushes aside other things (like the benefits to revenue athletes) too easily.

[CDu]

Yes it is. While the system is flawed, I'd say helping all the non revenue student athletes is one of the system's strong points.

Interestingly, the author (a nonrevenue sport athlete) feels the opposite: that the system is disproportionately benefiting nonrevenue sport athletes, who are the ones who need the benefit least.

[Bob Green]

Interestingly, the author (a nonrevenue sport athlete) feels the opposite: that the system is disproportionately benefiting nonrevenue sport athletes, who are the ones who need the benefit least.

I disagree with the author. Plenty of non revenue athletes need their scholarship to attain an education just like some revenue athletes would be just fine without a scholarship. One can't paint with too broad a brush.

[JNort]

Wow after reading that I have lost even more hope for our future if people can actually buy into what she said. What a moron. Yeah I agree with her on athletes being exploited at the college level (imo they should be paid) but she incorrectly ties it to race.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Wow after reading that I have lost even more hope for our future if people can actually buy into what she said. What a moron. Yeah I agree with her on athletes being exploited at the college level (imo they should be paid) but she incorrectly ties it to race.

If a system is disproportionately exploiting a minority, isn't it fair to examine whether there is a connection to race? I know correlation =/= causation, but in my mind it warrants some investigation.

[Faison1]

I agree with some points, and disagree with others...what's new?

The biggest issue I see going forward is how far we let this cash grab go...I mean, $25 mil for Jimbo Fisher at Texas A&M??? That's outrageous, and frankly a little pathetic. What does a D1 athlete make of that? A public institution shelling out that kind of money is ridiculous.

Until we control what administrators make at Universities, we are going to continue to have a lot of disagreements over misguided values.

And, having two kids staring at a college bill of over $500k between both of them, I can say this is a very personal matter.

[arnie]

Wow after reading that I have lost even more hope for our future if people can actually buy into what she said. What a moron. Yeah I agree with her on athletes being exploited at the college level (imo they should be paid) but she incorrectly ties it to race.

Remember that this is her perspective: a perspective gained from attending the “flagship university” south of Durham.

[Stray Gator]

Remember that this is her perspective: a perspective gained from attending the “flagship university” south of Durham.

I still think that "fraudship" is a more appropriate label.

[DavidBenAkiva]

so...she's willing to pay back her scholarship then? It seems she's taking advantage of the system as much as all the people she criticizes for being fans.

I understand taking advantage of a system that is poorly set up...I don't pay more taxes than I have to out of altruism...but she doesn't actually answer the question of whether she would forego her own advantage (and by extension all those non-revenue athletes that benefit) in order to change the system.

From a utilitarian perspective, is the system doing more good overall by helping people like her?

I don't know. I don't think she really shares anything new here.

You are attributing personal responsibility to systemic problems. I don't agree with that approach at all. Let's say that you were on that infamous United plane where the doctor was dragged off. As a passenger, would it be your personal responsibility to ensure that he wasn't physically assaulted? It would be preposterous to suggest that.

This was a tough article to read and one that we should take to heart as well. Duke's class of 2020 is 12% Black and less than 50% White, so far more diverse than UNC (and most public universities, for that matter). It's students tend to come from very wealthy families. But Duke also has a sterling graduation rate among its revenue sports and general student body. As fans, I think it is important for us to see that we are supporting an institution that prioritizes a future for the students that are generating revenue for the coaches, the non-revenue athletes, and university. It doesn't mean that Duke is perfect by any stretch of the imagination. But the Blue Devils certainly appear to value the student-athletes more than other schools.

[PackMan97]

Remember that this is her perspective: a perspective gained from attending the “flagship university” south of Durham.

https://youtu.be/NML9JEhXa6c

This is a problem, particularly at UNC which has a very low black enrollment. I think it molds the view the author has of the issues. When looking at her experience and the experience at UNC that minority revenue athletes have had it is easy to see how she feels this way.

[CDu]

I disagree with the author. Plenty of non revenue athletes need their scholarship to attain an education just like some revenue athletes would be just fine without a scholarship. One can't paint with too broad a brush.

While it is true that there do exist non-revenue sport athletes in need of a scholarship, I would venture that the number and relative percentage of athletes who need a scholarship is much lower in the non-revenue sports than it is in the revenue sports.

But more importantly, it is the benefits that the author is referring to, less so the scholarship. There are fewer scholarships available to non-revenue athletes than to revenue-sport athletes, and in many sports there are no scholarships at all. But the benefits for non-revenue sports are far greater than they otherwise would be on the backs of the revenue-sport athletes. And those revenue athletes are worked much harder and (as a result of their time commitments to the sport) much less at benefit from the educational opportunities of the school.

When you factor in that the revenue sport athletes are disproportionately lower-income, minority students - relative even to the non-revenue sport athletes - and you get the situation that the author describes: predominantly minority and lower-income athletes carrying way more of the burden and getting less of the benefits, while predominantly non minority athletes having less burden and getting the full benefit of the academic experience.

[kmspeaks]

I never spent more than 20 hours per week in practice and competition

Unless she's talking about the way the NCAA counts hours and not actual time spent then I have an incredibly hard time believing this. I played DII softball at two small schools in conferences with much smaller geographic footprints than any DI conference and I doubt we were ever under 20 hours a week. A typical one may look like this:
Monday - off but there was usually a "voluntary" workout and a training room appointment for those dealing with nagging injuries. I'll be generous and call this a 0 hour day
Tuesday - morning lifting before classes, practice in the afternoon. 4 hours
Wednesday - game day, we always played a double header. If it's a home game 6 hours. Away then depending on travel probably 10-12.
Thursday - repeat Tuesday. 4 hours
Friday - just practice, no weights. 3 hours
Saturday - game day. 6 hours if home, 10-12 if away
Sunday - game day. 6 hours if home, 10-12 if away

Those poor "exploited" football players had a similar time commitment for a day of practice or game day, but they only had one game a week.

In my opinion the vast majority of NCAA athletes are getting a good deal, and the small number who could be playing professionally are prohibited from doing so by the NFL/NBA not the NCAA, as long as their school does actually provide an education The fact that uNC intentionally withheld that education doesn't make the whole collegiate sports system broken, racist, or exploitative.

[uh_no]

Unless she's talking about the way the NCAA counts hours and not actual time spent then I have an incredibly hard time believing this.

For track, you're often wear-limited. Do too much and you get injured. That often limits the total time that can be spent training.

Most sports don't have that limit...so her experience probably really is exceptional.

[uh_no]

You are attributing personal responsibility to systemic problems.

No, I'm attributing it to the fact that money is a real asset, and you can't create it from thin air. Her scholarship, especially at that school, is paid on the backs of the exploited revenue sports players.

You want to pay them? sure, so long as your scholarship is willing to take a cut to do it?
Oh, so you want the coach to take a pay cut? Well, the coach will leave and maybe you'll bottle lightning and find a great coach on the cheap, but chances are the team will perform worse and revenue will decrease. Further, there are usually one 1 or 2 coaches making huge bucks, a full slate of scholarships is sometihng like 3-400. Cutting coaches salaries would be a few thousand bucks a year for each athlete..nice? sure. but hardly enough to make a dent in the inherent exploitation.
Maybe you just want the revenue players to have more of a shot at academics? Well, her school has proven they are unable to provide that while still fielding competitive teams. Revenue decrease.

So yes, it would be nice for her to get her free ride, and for the other athletes to be less exploited, but the two are inexorably linked. Don't believe me? Why are non-revenue sports so often on the chopping block at schools without big-time football and basketball programs?

http://america.aljazeera.com/feature...s-running.html

Here's an article specifically about mens track, which i'm aware of because I follow it...but i hardly doubt the situation isn't similar for other sports. And it's not going to get any better any time soon with ticket sales down across the country and ESPN revenues drying up with cable.

You can't prop up non-revenue sports while not taking advantage revenue sports and their athletes. And proposing less advantage be taken of revenue athletes while not examining the negative impacts to herself and people like her is a cop-out. Not providing an actual solution makes this, IMO, simply complaining. Not that pointing out issues isn't bad, but the fact that she doesn't suggest any novel (or even any at all) approaches to fix the problem (combined with the race card) makes me disregard this as noise.

I'm not denying that there aren't race issues in sports...but I feel she's off the mark here. Those fans buying tickets are the same ones enabling her to have an education...and I'd bet the UNC fanbase tracks the overall demographics of this area of the state pretty darn closely anyway.