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  1. #1801
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    North of Durham
    Quote Originally Posted by bundabergdevil View Post
    Originally, the ESG activism was confined to values-based investments whether that was a catholic pension fund screening out guns, porn and liquor or another ethical/value system.

    The big boys are starting to develop their own investment vehicles because the market for such products is growing and there is defensible research that suggests companies with strong ESG management practices outperform their peers without them. So, itís just another investment thesis.

    But, the bigger conversation is about expanding the scope of what constitutes material information for investors. The long-term, passively managed money increasingly believes ESG info is material and that companies out of step with certain social and environmental changes are at risk.

    Four or five years ago I started staffing calls with IR because Blackrock, State Street, CalPers and others were bringing ESG analysts to the reviews and asking questions. Up to that point, I had only interacted with the SRIs. I can tell you that IR was shocked the first time State Street told them that they would be voting against managementís recommendation on one of these proposals.

    Iím still surprised by the DuPont vote. That is overwhelming and history making.
    A lot of places seem to be staffing up ESG roles. A former colleague just moved into a role where she is full time ESG. I'm still not sure what all of this means. A lot of it is very obvious, but some of it, especially on the G side, is unclear. I spend a lot of time reading rating agency reports and they are increasingly mentioning this, though again, the amount of detail they go into varies a lot. Right now it seems like what they and a lot of the big funds are doing is just checking a box. I am supportive of responsible investing but I'm not sure if I would give up return for it.

  2. #1802
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Outside Philly
    Quote Originally Posted by CrazyNotCrazie View Post
    A lot of places seem to be staffing up ESG roles. A former colleague just moved into a role where she is full time ESG. I'm still not sure what all of this means. A lot of it is very obvious, but some of it, especially on the G side, is unclear. I spend a lot of time reading rating agency reports and they are increasingly mentioning this, though again, the amount of detail they go into varies a lot. Right now it seems like what they and a lot of the big funds are doing is just checking a box. I am supportive of responsible investing but I'm not sure if I would give up return for it.
    I would distinguish responsible investing, which brings a values-based screen, from integrating ESG into investment decisions because we think it might provide insight into financial performance or non-traditional risk. There is a lot of coverage of ESG funds apparently outperforming the market. Lots of business research into this. I have my opinion on why this might be --- and what investors have said to me about why they were beginning to cover ESG with their portfolio companies makes sense.

    That aside, ESG and corporate sustainability is still pretty new and there is no standardization, there are frameworks out the wazzoo, and very different geographical approaches. You might be interested in our SEC's recent commentary or other research into the space.

    Have you been into your firm's Bloomberg ESG portal? It's pretty interesting stuff. The data is NOT good because there aren't any regulations that mandate certain disclosures and assurance processes but its getting better and I would wager within the decade much of what public companies have to disclose on the ESG front will be required by law in the US (it already is in Europe).

  3. #1803
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Outside Philly
    Quote Originally Posted by bundabergdevil View Post
    I would distinguish responsible investing, which brings a values-based screen, from integrating ESG into investment decisions because we think it might provide insight into financial performance or non-traditional risk. There is a lot of coverage of ESG funds apparently outperforming the market. Lots of business research into this. I have my opinion on why this might be --- and what investors have said to me about why they were beginning to cover ESG with their portfolio companies makes sense.

    That aside, ESG and corporate sustainability is still pretty new and there is no standardization, there are frameworks out the wazzoo, and very different geographical approaches. You might be interested in our SEC's recent commentary or other research into the space.

    Have you been into your firm's Bloomberg ESG portal? It's pretty interesting stuff. The data is NOT good because there aren't any regulations that mandate certain disclosures and assurance processes but its getting better and I would wager within the decade much of what public companies have to disclose on the ESG front will be required by law in the US (it already is in Europe).

    Editing to add: I used ďapparentlyĒ on purpose. Itís very difficult to definitively represent over-performance or under-performance because theyíre point in time assessments, among other reasons. The point I wanted to make is that thereís plenty of reason to believe that applying an ESG lens doesnít sacrifice return and may even give you some.

  4. #1804
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Boca Grande Florida
    So Iíve decided to add Cardano to my crypto portfolio, and this video finally convinced me to pull the trigger. The recent deal with Ethiopia makes sense to me, and after getting all the info I could find on Charles Hopkinson, he comes across as an extremely smart billionaire with heart and a mission that I can support.

    Many people think that Cardano is a competitor to Ethereum, which I have a strong position in, but I have decided that itís more likely that they can co-exist and that their different approach to growth will work for both, so Iím now in on both, and it still feels like itís early enough to see some solid gains as it all becomes more mainstream. We shall see.
    Wheat/"/"/"
    "An angry man catches no fish"-Zen proverb.

  5. #1805
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Outside Philly
    Quote Originally Posted by Wheat/"/"/" View Post
    So Iíve decided to add Cardano to my crypto portfolio, and this video finally convinced me to pull the trigger. The recent deal with Ethiopia makes sense to me, and after getting all the info I could find on Charles Hopkinson, he comes across as an extremely smart billionaire with heart and a mission that I can support.

    Many people think that Cardano is a competitor to Ethereum, which I have a strong position in, but I have decided that itís more likely that they can co-exist and that their different approach to growth will work for both, so Iím now in on both, and it still feels like itís early enough to see some solid gains as it all becomes more mainstream. We shall see.

    Ethereum has been on a tear. You think itíll look like Bitcoin in a few years?

    I just started paying attention to all this after my step niece, who is a 25 y/o restaurant worker, started talking about it. She had been getting paid in Bitcoin in a side gig more than a year ago and has done very well with the explosion. Not Bitcoin billionaire well but I gather sheís made hundreds of thousands on almost nothing. She and her friends started talking about NFTs before I started hearing about them on mainstream media, too.

    Iím open to the general idea of a completely new currency paradigm but I, like lots of folks, still have a hard time wrapping my head around specifics, particularly with all the meme and pirate cryptos out there.

    Been very interesting to try and learn about and appreciate the resources youíve been sharing. Let us know when you upgrade to a boat with a helipad!

  6. #1806
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Albemarle, North Carolina
    Quote Originally Posted by Wheat/"/"/" View Post
    So I’ve decided to add Cardano to my crypto portfolio, and this video finally convinced me to pull the trigger. The recent deal with Ethiopia makes sense to me, and after getting all the info I could find on Charles Hopkinson, he comes across as an extremely smart billionaire with heart and a mission that I can support.

    Many people think that Cardano is a competitor to Ethereum, which I have a strong position in, but I have decided that it’s more likely that they can co-exist and that their different approach to growth will work for both, so I’m now in on both, and it still feels like it’s early enough to see some solid gains as it all becomes more mainstream. We shall see.
    My sister has been trying to get me on cardano, guess I might have to pull the trigger. I recently sold ~70% of my doge coin (before the dip) and dumped it into more Etherium as well.

    What platform do you use to buy cardano?
    "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge" -Stephen Hawking

  7. #1807
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Boca Grande Florida
    Quote Originally Posted by JNort View Post
    My sister has been trying to get me on cardano, guess I might have to pull the trigger. I recently sold ~70% of my doge coin (before the dip) and dumped it into more Etherium as well.

    What platform do you use to buy cardano?
    I use Coinbase for Cardano.

    Currently Bitcoin has a market cap of around a trillion dollars and Ethereum has a market cap of around 450 billion. These are sobering numbers for people to consider who havenít been following the growth of these crypto assets and their economic effect.

    To find some perspective, Wal-mart has a market cap of around 425 billion, and the largest bank in the US, JP Morgan, has a market cap of around 490 billion. Amazonís market cap is around 1.6 trillion.

    Pretty good company for BTC and ETH.

    Many people think Bitcoin will rival gold as a store of value someday. Goldís market cap is around 11 trillion dollars, so thatís a long way to go to rival gold as a safe haven for your money. I doubt Iíll see it happen in my lifetime, but it wouldnít surprise me to wake up one day and see them both on par with each other.

    I donít see Bitcoin as anything other than a place to store value, just like gold, but easier to move around. I trust the decentralized blockchain technology that secures Bitcoin, even tho I donít totally understand how it works. Then again I donít understand how my Visa card works. Bitcoin has yet to be hacked in 12 years and a trillion dollars in value. Never say never but it appears pretty safe to me. I canít see it as a currency, its a place to park your money to maintain value.

    Ethereum is a whole other animal to me. Iím still trying to wrap my head around all the value possibilities that this platform can create.
    ETH has a huge advantage now of being first mover to attempt to create the base layer for crypto growth, and that growth appears to me to be infinite.

    Think of Ethereum as equivalent to the internet.

    The base layer for the internet was built of code and protocols and was never monetized by anyone. The monetization didnít happen on the base layer, it came from layer 2, the applications built on the platform we know as the internet.
    There were applications/businesses built like Google, Amazon and every other web site out there that found a way to sell something or create value. All built on the internet platform, basically for the free.

    Ethereum is building a base layer similar to the internet with blockchain technology for decentralized applications/business, and is monetizing it.

    All applications running on the Ethereum platform have to use the ETH coin and pay fees to gain access to the platform. The service that Ethereum is providing by creating and maintaining the platform is not free. The base network is monetized and thatís why I want to own a small piece of it.

    If Ethereum is a ďnewĒ internet...isnít the market the world?
    Assuming Ethereum continues to lead and can get the scalability issues figured out...and nobody else comes up with a better platform somehow to overtake their big lead, the skies the limit.

    This is just how I see things as a non technical guy who has been seriously studying up on all this for the past three months. I may be totally wrong with my perception of it all and just think I have a small grasp of whatís going on.

    I would love it if a crypto nerd that really understands it all would stop by this thread and educate me on any misunderstandings that I may have.
    Wheat/"/"/"
    "An angry man catches no fish"-Zen proverb.

  8. #1808
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Outside Philly
    Musk must be short now.

  9. #1809
    Simple explanation for todays crypto drop - I bought some for the first time yesterday. My bad for not warning everyone.

  10. #1810
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Boca Grande Florida
    Quote Originally Posted by Skydog View Post
    Simple explanation for todays crypto drop - I bought some for the first time yesterday. My bad for not warning everyone.
    Hang in there, youíll get used to the volatility.

    I bought more Bitcoin today on the dip and am still a big believer in Bitcoin.

    Iím going to stick to my 3-5 year plan, for better or worse, staying disciplined and steady during the volatile dips that is typical of this market.
    Wheat/"/"/"
    "An angry man catches no fish"-Zen proverb.

  11. #1811
    I also am a believer lol. Tough day but i saw Vitalik donated 1 billion to India's covid relief which was heartening. I just can't believe how young he is.

  12. #1812
    Quote Originally Posted by thedukeman View Post
    I also am a believer lol. Tough day but i saw Vitalik donated 1 billion to India's covid relief which was heartening. I just can't believe how young he is.
    1/2 billion in ethereum and 1 bil in a meme coin that promptly tanked.

  13. #1813
    Quote Originally Posted by Skydog View Post
    1/2 billion in ethereum and 1 bil in a meme coin that promptly tanked.
    Ethereum is still up from LAST WEEK. Just sayin'. It's a volatile asset clearly...But it's priced higer now still (even after the "tanking") than it was on May 7.

  14. #1814
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Boca Grande Florida
    Here is a good FAQ page on Ethereum.

    Ignore the daily volatility and keep in mind big network upgrades are coming within the next few months, and that is expected to be big news when it happens to support growth.

    If you believe in the potential of what the Ethereum network can do, where it can go, the current ETH price is still entry level is my take.

    ( Iím not a financial advisor, more of a gambler
    Wheat/"/"/"
    "An angry man catches no fish"-Zen proverb.

  15. #1815
    Quote Originally Posted by bundabergdevil View Post
    I just started paying attention to all this after my step niece, who is a 25 y/o restaurant worker, started talking about it. She had been getting paid in Bitcoin in a side gig more than a year ago and has done very well with the explosion. Not Bitcoin billionaire well but I gather sheís made hundreds of thousands on almost nothing.
    I find it interesting and maybe revealing that, when describing how well your step-niece did with Bitcoin, you (presumably) use U.S. dollars as the measure. Perhaps the tipping point will be when the widely-accepted yardstick of stored value changes its units (it has in the ransomware world, but I think that has more to do with anonymity).

    This definitely strikes me as speculation, not investment.

  16. #1816
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Durham, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by cspan37421 View Post
    This definitely strikes me as speculation, not investment.
    The whole crypto currency phenomenon reminds me of what Warren Buffet said when some of his investors were pressing him to buy into some of the early internet bubble stocks. He said that he didn't understand how they would make money, so he wasn't going to invest. I don't understand the value of these investments. For example, unless the transaction is illegal, why would I prefer to buy with bitcoin instead of my credit card? If the seller rips me off, what will bitcoin do for me?

  17. #1817
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Boca Grande Florida
    Quote Originally Posted by howardlander View Post
    ...I don't understand the value of these investments. For example, unless the transaction is illegal, why would I prefer to buy with bitcoin instead of my credit card? If the seller rips me off, what will bitcoin do for me?
    Your concerns with a seller ripping you off is why there are such high fees with your credit card. The protections a bank credit card provides are expensive. I don’t think credit cards will ever go away, because of the point you just made. You want some protections and you’re willing to pay for them. Me too.

    With Bitcoin, people have to take responsibility for their own banking, but there are no fees. (With the exception of small transaction fees). There are taxes, of course.

    When thinking about Bitcoin, we have to consider that we are lucky. We have access to banks. A great many people around the world don’t have any access to banks, but they do have smart phones that can be used as wallets.

    Bitcoin is like carrying around and ounce of gold. But, instead of that little old pouch of golddust, like in an old western movie, people carry it around in phones. And it’s value is the same world wide, easily broken down and exchanged to the smallest decimal point.
    Wheat/"/"/"
    "An angry man catches no fish"-Zen proverb.

  18. #1818
    Quote Originally Posted by Skydog View Post
    1/2 billion in ethereum and 1 bil in a meme coin that promptly tanked.
    Well they're both back up now

  19. #1819
    Quote Originally Posted by Wheat/"/"/" View Post
    Your concerns with a seller ripping you off is why there are such high fees with your credit card. The protections a bank credit card provides are expensive. I donít think credit cards will ever go away, because of the point you just made. You want some protections and youíre willing to pay for them. Me too.

    With Bitcoin, people have to take responsibility for their own banking, but there are no fees. (With the exception of small transaction fees). There are taxes, of course.

    When thinking about Bitcoin, we have to consider that we are lucky. We have access to banks. A great many people around the world donít have any access to banks, but they do have smart phones that can be used as wallets.

    Bitcoin is like carrying around and ounce of gold. But, instead of that little old pouch of golddust, like in an old western movie, people carry it around in phones. And itís value is the same world wide, easily broken down and exchanged to the smallest decimal point.
    Transaction costs for Bitcoin are higher than credit card fees. Itís not free and depending on network congestion can run pretty high and is unpredictable. Plus people can ďgrease a palmĒ and pay more to get the transaction done quicker. Miners got to make their money. Ethereum is looking to cap fees but miners are not happy about it.

  20. #1820
    Quote Originally Posted by howardlander View Post
    The whole crypto currency phenomenon reminds me of what Warren Buffet said when some of his investors were pressing him to buy into some of the early internet bubble stocks. He said that he didn't understand how they would make money, so he wasn't going to invest. I don't understand the value of these investments. For example, unless the transaction is illegal, why would I prefer to buy with bitcoin instead of my credit card? If the seller rips me off, what will bitcoin do for me?
    I'm very far from an expert but my thoughts: crypto isn't stable enough to be commonly used as a regular currency to be used for purchases and sales. Better to think of crypto as being in somewhere in between investing in a stock and investing in beanie babies, fine art or baseball card collections. Crypto is like baseball cards in that it has no intrinsic value, but it's like a stock in that it is has an agreed upon value at any point in time and so is easily purchased, sold and traded online. Like a baseball card or fine art most of cryptocurrency's value comes from society (or more accurately, a segment of society) agreeing on a value, and part of the driver of that value is perceived scarcity. Because unlike fiat currency (dollar bills for example) there is a firm limit on how much bitcoin will be made.

    (Above is a layperson's elementary understanding of something he recently got into. It's value is as tangible as a Dogecoin!)

    PS - A crypto purchase doesn't have protections like a credit card purchase does. And it doesn't have gov't insurance protections even if stored in crypto exchange. Coinbase (the new publicly traded exchange) claims to have private insurance for crypto deposits. But it's not that simple. Bottom line - there is definite risk in the crypto world, with estimates of that risk varying widely. And possible rewards. Ask the new crypto millionaires! Especially the ones who can find their passwords!
    Last edited by Skydog; Yesterday at 10:08 PM.

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