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  1. #61
    Finally saw it and I thought it was bad. Everyone has already hit on my complaints for it so I don’t have much to add. I would give it a solid C+ and I’ll never rewatch it again like I have done with the three originals and rogue one.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Native View Post
    I mean, when you really think about it, why couldn't this have been VII? VII was purely exposition in the grand scheme of things. You could cover most of the important stuff from VII that set up TLJ in an opening crawl:
    Ah, this reminds me of a minor complaint I had forgotten about...the opening crawl was pretty uninspiring.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by LasVegas View Post
    Finally saw it and I thought it was bad. Everyone has already hit on my complaints for it so I don’t have much to add. I would give it a solid C+ and I’ll never rewatch it again like I have done with the three originals and rogue one.
    It's interesting the polarity this film is having on those who have seen it. I have no idea how you could watch it and truly think it was bad. I'm not a fanboy but my sister is and we both really liked it. Again, I'm not saying it was perfect and there were a couple things I had a problem with but the movie as a whole I thought was really good.

  4. #64
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    56% or whatever the fan score is on RT is clearly not indicative of the quality of the film.

    If I had to guess why the rating is that low - I would say that for the last two years people spent time reading theories and building the film in their mind. Then it got rave reviews from critics. People expected a masterpiece and those theories to be validated. Instead, Rian went a completely different direction. TLJ simply made some of the questions asked in TFA unimportant. People are angry about it and are in turn picking apart the film. Was it perfect? Nope. Is it better than a 56%? Absolutely. It's not close.

  5. #65
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    I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty, or give me death!
    Okay, just saw it.

    I liked it, but admittedly it takes a lot for me to dislike a movie, especially one I am so invested in. I need to see it again, but someone please tell me the meaning of the gold dice. I totally missed it. I did leave to go to the rest room, so maybe I missed something.

    I can see why many are frustrated. After TFA, we have been wanting to:

    Know who Rey's parents are
    Know who Snoke is
    See Luke Skywalker kick major butt
    See Leah do anything important

    Instead we get:

    Rey is trailer trash
    Snoke is an irrelevant d-bag
    A brooding downtrodden Luke
    Leah finally uses the force to SURVIVE IN OUTER SPACE AND FLY BACK TO HER SHIP!

    The casino plot would have been worth it if it were the plan that worked.

    I am disappointed, but I still liked it. It evaded my expectations, but I do not own this story and when I suspend belief to get into a movie, I assume what is happening is real and there just happens to be lots of cameras around.

    Bring on 9. I am glad Abrams is doing it. He will provide a clean wrap up.
    Johnson can take a break and then take it wherever during the next trilogy.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by luburch View Post
    56% or whatever the fan score is on RT is clearly not indicative of the quality of the film.

    If I had to guess why the rating is that low - I would say that for the last two years people spent time reading theories and building the film in their mind. Then it got rave reviews from critics. People expected a masterpiece and those theories to be validated. Instead, Rian went a completely different direction. TLJ simply made some of the questions asked in TFA unimportant. People are angry about it and are in turn picking apart the film. Was it perfect? Nope. Is it better than a 56%? Absolutely. It's not close.
    Here's an interesting article about the disconnect between the 56% user score shown on RT and all the other metrics that seem to show it as a very good movie.

    Typically, user scores aren’t that far from their critical ratings. Simply put these are all unscientific means of measuring audience reactions. Anyone can log into these sites several times (anecdotally we played around with this last night) and weigh down the audience grades against a movie. The consensus from non-Disney sources this morning is that “trolling” occurred here in regards to the online reaction to Last Jedi. In addition, there’s no way to filter on these sites whether or not the users have actually seen Last Jedi or not.
    It is sorta funny to me... when I first saw it and had a few reservations about it (which I posted at the start of this thread) I though folks would rail against me for having anything negative to say about this film. Now, I feel like bashing it is the "trendy" thing to do and I reflexively want to defend it from too much criticism. I think we all agree it is a very good movie, it just lets us down in a couple ways that keep it from being truly great. There is no sin in that. The number of truly great films every year is generally really, really small... and sci-fi soap operas are really rarely among them.

    -Jason "Reddevil's list of 4 questions from VII that are unsatisfactorily answered in IIX is dead on target!! A trilogy with different writer/directors can be very awkward" Evans
    Why are you wasting time here when you could be wasting it by listening to the latest episode of the DBR Podcast?

  7. #67
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    Talking

    Agree with most of JE assessment. The whole casino planet thing, in retrospect, seems so pointless. That being said, the ending where the kid reaches for his broom and it floats to him was great, and it wouldn't have made sense without the casino planet.

    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post
    7. Leia flying through space and not instantly freezing to death was insane and bad. There are rules regarding the Force and the universe but it feels like Rian was making them up as he went along in this movie. I thought this was the second movie in a row where it felt like Leia had only a passing impact on the story. She was almost an afterthought.
    Just to address your (and several other people's disbelief at this) you actually can survive for a short while in space. It's not the instant freeze/explode/death that so many movies portray. The being blasted to the outside would likely have killed her but if she survived that, she could realistically survive for the short while she needed to reach out and pull herself back in.

    That being said, if she were just unconscious for the time offscreen and she didn't instantly reach out to bring herself in, then yeah.

    All that being said, this is a world with the force and magic light swords
    Duke '03
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  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by DukeDevil View Post
    Agree with most of JE assessment. The whole casino planet thing, in retrospect, seems so pointless. That being said, the ending where the kid reaches for his broom and it floats to him was great, and it wouldn't have made sense without the casino planet.



    Just to address your (and several other people's disbelief at this) you actually can survive for a short while in space. It's not the instant freeze/explode/death that so many movies portray. The being blasted to the outside would likely have killed her but if she survived that, she could realistically survive for the short while she needed to reach out and pull herself back in.

    That being said, if she were just unconscious for the time offscreen and she didn't instantly reach out to bring herself in, then yeah.

    All that being said, this is a world with the force and magic light swords
    Right. I find it strange that folks will believe that someone strong with the force can lift an aircraft with their mind, or can create fake, talking images of themselves that appear on another planet, but don’t buy that someone strong with the force could survive a few seconds in space and propel themselves through space. Seems like a strange place to draw the line in what is credible.

  9. #69
    According to NASA and Scientific American, humans can survive about 2 minutes in space without a suit, but would lose consciousness in about 15-20 seconds.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by CDu View Post
    Right. I find it strange that folks will believe that someone strong with the force can lift an aircraft with their mind, or can create fake, talking images of themselves that appear on another planet, but don’t buy that someone strong with the force could survive a few seconds in space and propel themselves through space. Seems like a strange place to draw the line in what is credible.
    In my opinion part of it was the over the top way it was executed. No suspension of disbelief issues for me regarding the concept, but it was done in a corny/tacky way (a recurring theme for the movie).

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Acymetric View Post
    In my opinion part of it was the over the top way it was executed. No suspension of disbelief issues for me regarding the concept, but it was done in a corny/tacky way (a recurring theme for the movie).
    And, it was also done in one of the Guardians of the Galaxy movies in the last few years.

    The blow form the explosion would have killed anyone regardless.

  12. #72
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    For people familiar with the old school SATs:

    The Last Jedi:Star Wars::Gods & Guns:Lynyrd Skynyrd.

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by fuse View Post
    Rose/Finn romance is forced. As much as I like Finn, death taking out the mini death star gun would have been as shocking as Vader/Luke in ESB.
    That moment was one of my least favorite of the film. Absent taking out the battering ram, everyone was going to die. They had every reason to think they would be immediately stormed as soon as the blast door was taken out, and they were sure there was no way out. As the late Bill Paxton would have said, game over man, game over. Of course you sacrifice yourself to take that gun out. It made no sense for Poe to call them off, and it certainly made no sense for Rose to stop Finn. Even if she had a crush on him, there was nothing up to that point to suggest she was so overwhelmingly in love with him that she'd flat out risk her life and crash her speeder into his to try and save him (and it's pretty sketchy logic to try and save someone by t-boning them. They both could easily have been killed in the crash). And again, all she's likely accomplished is dooming everyone, including both herself and Finn, anyway.
    Demented and sad, but social, right?

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue in the Face View Post
    That moment was one of my least favorite of the film. Absent taking out the battering ram, everyone was going to die. They had every reason to think they would be immediately stormed as soon as the blast door was taken out, and they were sure there was no way out. As the late Bill Paxton would have said, game over man, game over. Of course you sacrifice yourself to take that gun out. It made no sense for Poe to call them off, and it certainly made no sense for Rose to stop Finn. Even if she had a crush on him, there was nothing up to that point to suggest she was so overwhelmingly in love with him that she'd flat out risk her life and crash her speeder into his to try and save him (and it's pretty sketchy logic to try and save someone by t-boning them. They both could easily have been killed in the crash). And again, all she's likely accomplished is dooming everyone, including both herself and Finn, anyway.
    Those things did not even have airbags.

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by Blue in the Face View Post
    That moment was one of my least favorite of the film. Absent taking out the battering ram, everyone was going to die. They had every reason to think they would be immediately stormed as soon as the blast door was taken out, and they were sure there was no way out. As the late Bill Paxton would have said, game over man, game over. Of course you sacrifice yourself to take that gun out. It made no sense for Poe to call them off, and it certainly made no sense for Rose to stop Finn. Even if she had a crush on him, there was nothing up to that point to suggest she was so overwhelmingly in love with him that she'd flat out risk her life and crash her speeder into his to try and save him (and it's pretty sketchy logic to try and save someone by t-boning them. They both could easily have been killed in the crash). And again, all she's likely accomplished is dooming everyone, including both herself and Finn, anyway.
    Eh... What was the end game? I mean, you take out the battering ram, and then you have a standoff where you arr wildly outgunned and stand to starve to death. I mean, better odds than getting the door knocked down, but still not a great plan.

    I saw it as parallel to Poe's impulsive actions early in the film.

  16. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15 View Post
    Eh... What was the end game? I mean, you take out the battering ram, and then you have a standoff where you arr wildly outgunned and stand to starve to death. I mean, better odds than getting the door knocked down, but still not a great plan.

    I saw it as parallel to Poe's impulsive actions early in the film.
    I think that scene was designed to show Poe and Finn's development.

    Poe developing from someone who was win at all costs. Finn developing someone who was only interested in the resistance if it served his interests.

  17. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15 View Post
    Eh... What was the end game? I mean, you take out the battering ram, and then you have a standoff where you arr wildly outgunned and stand to starve to death. I mean, better odds than getting the door knocked down, but still not a great plan.

    I saw it as parallel to Poe's impulsive actions early in the film.
    No, not great, but they went to the base in the first place. They knew their best case was being pinned inside - safe for the time being, but unable to do much unless they found some allies willing to come help. And it's not like Finn rode out on his own to take out the battering ram. They made that decision for a reason. And then reversed it because one or two more guys might die in the effort? That really doesn't make much sense.
    Demented and sad, but social, right?

  18. #78
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    I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty, or give me death!
    One last complaint (for now) - Phasma was wasted. What was the point of introducing her? Maybe she is not dead. Abrams created her, so he can bring her back for a better showing.

    After some reflection, I have come around on the topic of Rey. She does not need to be a descendant of anyone known. Having Force sensitivity or powers is not something inherited necessarily. Any commoner like Rey, or the boy with the broom could potentially have it. After all, Anakin was but a slave boy. It plays into the class disparity theme.

    Now as for SW9, there are very few members of the resistance as we know it, but perhaps the word got out and people are mobilizing. There has to be a real threat to the First Order. I would LOVE, LOVE, LOVE for the wookiees to come into the fold. Some may find it cheesy, but this is Star Wars, and there is always room for a little cheddar. The marketing and much humor could be funneled through this possibility.

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by Reddevil View Post
    One last complaint (for now) - Phasma was wasted. What was the point of introducing her? Maybe she is not dead. Abrams created her, so he can bring her back for a better showing.
    Well, go back to the original trilogy and look at how many scenes/lines/importance characters like Boba Fett had. Phasma is perfectly in line with that.

    The Snoke/Rey decisions were perfect to keep this trilogy from just being a repeat of the Original (like Episode 7 was). The only thing I'm a little sad about is the idea that the Skywalker/Solo names are forever gone from future non-prequel Star Wars movies, although I guess that is not 100% certain yet.

  20. #80
    My Star Wars fan coworker disliked the movie, and I got him to distill it down for me... He is disappointed about how his favorite characters from childhood (Han, Luke, Leia) were dismissed rather inelegantly. I understand this perspective, but I disagree.

    Han was rather wasted in Ep VII, largely because it felt like Harrison had no interest in being anywhere near the set. Contrast with Mark Hamill, who seemed to really get the most out of his last chance to play the role that made him a household name. Luke (to me) went out in a blaze of glory, going down in an act of redemption and exhaustion, saving the rebels one more time.

    Of course, it is yet to be seen how they deal with Leia - killing her off screen would be rather ignominious, CGI would be horrific, recasting unimaginable - but I felt Luke's final chapter was properly epic.

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