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  1. #1
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    Star Wars: The Last Jedi SPOILER THREAD!!

    Warning, the posts the follow will contain spoilers and discussion of stuff that happens in The Last Jedi.

    DO NOT READ IF YOU DON'T WANT TO BE SPOILED!

    I'M SERIOUS.

    STOP READING NOW...

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    -Jason "I'm going to start the spoilers in the next post, just to be safe" Evans
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  2. #2
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    I liked the movie, really I did... but this post is going to contain a pretty good bit of criticism.

    So, I hated, hated, hated the side plot with Rose, Finn, and Benicio Del Toro. If you ask me it served no point at all and really drug out the length of the film. Nothing that happened on the side plot mattered for the resolution of the movie. I think the biggest flaw in this film was that Rian felt he had to spend time telling Finn and Poe's story when all we wanted was more more more more Luke, Kylo, Snoke, and Rey.

    Think about this -- the original films really had 3 main characters -- Luke, Han, and Leia. We spent every moment with them and they were together almost all of the time. Other characters only existed to interact with those 3. This movie has Rey, Luke, Leia, Kylo, Finn, and Poe as equal main characters and they are never really together at all except at the very very very end of the movie.

    The moment when Poe meets Rey at the end of the movie... are we supposed to get some romantic sparks there?

    So, now to some critical questions:

    1. Why did Luke disappear into mist at the end? Had his concentration making an image of himself on a far off planet weakened him to the point of self-destruction or something? Huh?

    2. What was Yoda's point? Did Yoda convince Luke to help the resistance? Why did Yoda show up?

    3. So, when Laura Dern hyperdrove into Snoke's ship, it killed a bunch of stormtroopers and knocked everyone out, except for Rose... really?

    4. How did Rey get off Snoke's ship? How did she get onto the Falcon? Did I miss a scene?

    5. I loved how cool Snoke's guards were, but it would have been nice to see them kick butt a bit before they went into action against two stud force users. We should have believed there was actually some peril for Rey and Kylo in that scene, but there was no sense of that (though it was a really cool lightsaber fight).

    6. Maz Katana talking while fighting for her life was lame beyond all belief. That scene was so bad, it really pulled me out of being enveloped by the movie.

    7. Leia flying through space and not instantly freezing to death was insane and bad. There are rules regarding the Force and the universe but it feels like Rian was making them up as he went along in this movie. I thought this was the second movie in a row where it felt like Leia had only a passing impact on the story. She was almost an afterthought.

    8. There wasn't a single thing that happened on the gambling planet that was even remotely interesting. There was some kind of class warfare kinda message being imparted to us there, I think, but it was heavy-handed and did not work at all.

    Now, some good stuff...

    1. Poe's "I can't hear you" conversation with General Hux was one of the best moments in cinematic history. I was dying with laughter.

    2. I adored the connection between Kylo and Rey and how it drew them into a relationship of sorts. Like I said at the outset, I would have watched the two of them do that forever and been happy.

    3. Kylo killing Snoke was masterful. Snoke can sense exactly what Kylo is doing, but does not realize Kylo is doing it to him, not Rey. I adored that scene.

    4. Of course, the best moment in the movie was Luke wiping dust off his shoulder. Sooooo awesome! It is worth noting that Kylo then faces Luke and says there will be no more Jedi after this fight to which Luke says Kylo is wrong, implying Rey is now a Jedi. Are we supposed to think that Luke has trained Rey enough for her to be a Jedi? I'm not sure I buy that. Of course, I'm not sure there is a specific definition of what a Jedi is, so I guess she can be one even without a lot of training.

    So much more... taking a break for now.
    Why are you wasting time here when you could be wasting it by listening to the latest episode of the DBR Podcast?

  3. #3
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    By the way, if you are not averse to being spoiled and have a question you want to ask me, feel free to post is here.
    Why are you wasting time here when you could be wasting it by listening to the latest episode of the DBR Podcast?

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by brevity View Post
    So here's what we know after 7 movies, 8 if you include Rogue One, and you can draw your own prediction. It operates on the fairly large assumption that this new trilogy will be connected to the prequel trilogy (which I don't think has happened yet).

    1. Cloning technology is possible, and successful. The Clone Wars are canon -- Obi-Wan mentions it in A New Hope, as does Senator Bail Organa in Rogue One -- though what that means is confined to Episode II, Episode III, and both animated series.

    2. Having the Force appears to be a function of genetics. Whether you want to remain vague and mystical (original trilogy) or biologically specific (prequel trilogy) is up to you.

    3. Darth Vader's melted helmet -- presumably the one from Endor when Luke cremated his father in Return of the Jedi -- was recovered and eventually ended up in the possession of Kylo Ren.

    4. The lightsaber that Luke lost just outside Cloud City in The Empire Strikes Back was recovered and eventually ended up in the possession of Maz Kanata. No mention is made of the human hand once attached to it.

    5. By the end of Episode III, Emperor Palpatine seemed to believe that a near-dead, incinerated, less-than-fully-limbed Anakin Skywalker was worth preserving.

    6. Snoke is probably much older than Rey.
    I find it amusing that not a single one of these observations was even moderately addressed in the new movie... other than Luke's lightsaber which is discarded in a truly hysterical moment at the start of the movie (Rey picks it up and uses it, but it isn't some important plot point).

    Also, it would seem that Rey's unimportant and unimpressive parentage would run against the theory in item #2 about genetics and the Force. I'm not entirely convinced that Kylo's assessment of Rey's parents is true. I feel like there should be something more significant there for her to be as powerful as she is.

    -Jason "worth noting that with Luke's demise (and Carrie Fisher's death), it would seem the Skywalker family Force now rests entirely in the hands of Kylo Ren" Evans
    Last edited by JasonEvans; 12-14-2017 at 08:04 AM.
    Why are you wasting time here when you could be wasting it by listening to the latest episode of the DBR Podcast?

  5. #5
    On your fourth point under good, you can be a Jedi without being a Knight or Master. Younglings and Padawan are members of the Jedi Order, and thus could be considered Jedi.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by bjornolf View Post
    On your fourth point under good, you can be a Jedi without being a Knight or Master. Younglings and Padawan are members of the Jedi Order, and thus could be considered Jedi.
    With the original Jedi texts destroyed (which Yoda laughs about) and Luke gone, I'm not sure there can be any Jedi masters ever again... though I suppose some other texts may still exist. Of course, we have seen so much of Obi Won and Yoda appearing after their deaths, I don't know why they couldn't team up with Luke to continue to teach Rey from beyond the grave.

    -Jason "I guess Kylo could teach Rey... ha!" Evans
    Why are you wasting time here when you could be wasting it by listening to the latest episode of the DBR Podcast?

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post
    4. How did Rey get off Snoke's ship? How did she get onto the Falcon? Did I miss a scene?
    Yes, although it was just kind of slipped in there and would have been easy to miss. Kylo mentions to General Hux when he comes in that she escaped in Snoke's ship. How she ends up on the Falcon is somewhat unclear.

    I enjoyed the movie but was generally dissatisfied, it feels like the story didn't move forward at all. Cut out all the fluff and what is left could have been the first 30 or 40 minutes of a really good movie.

  8. #8
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    Just got back from the theatre.

    Jason, you pegged a lot of it for me, especially your number 7 bad.

    The great parts were great, and there were a lot of bad parts.
    Really, really uneven.

    Super disappointed that we got 30 seconds of Luke in 7, and while the acting was good, his arc completing in 8 was wholly unsatisfying.

    I expect 9 will be a Kylo Ren and Rey showdown.

    Really wish there had been more of the red guard action.

    Phasma and Snoke as characters were really a waste.
    Snoke was supposed to have some awesome backstory- what happened to that?

    A mix of Empire tribute, some distracting 4th wall breaking humour/inside Star Wars universe jokes.

    I love, love, love Star Wars and it hurts me to type that I hope new original Star Wars movies beyond the conclusion of the Skywalker saga wil be exactly that- original.

    I think I have seen every Star Wars movie in the theatre at least three times.
    I’m wrestling with when I will see this one again.

    I let the pre-movie hype get to me. I was expecting a ten, and its likely a solid seven.

    Maybe more thoughts later.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post
    With the original Jedi texts destroyed (which Yoda laughs about) and Luke gone, I'm not sure there can be any Jedi masters ever again... though I suppose some other texts may still exist. Of course, we have seen so much of Obi Won and Yoda appearing after their deaths, I don't know why they couldn't team up with Luke to continue to teach Rey from beyond the grave.

    -Jason "I guess Kylo could teach Rey... ha!" Evans
    Has anyone even explained the Dark Side to Rey? She seems to somehow be very aware of the dangers without anyone having talked to her about it.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post
    With the original Jedi texts destroyed (which Yoda laughs about) and Luke gone, I'm not sure there can be any Jedi masters ever again... though I suppose some other texts may still exist. Of course, we have seen so much of Obi Won and Yoda appearing after their deaths, I don't know why they couldn't team up with Luke to continue to teach Rey from beyond the grave.

    -Jason "I guess Kylo could teach Rey... ha!" Evans
    I thought I saw the Jedi texts in a drawer on the Millenium Falcon at the end. Did anyone else see that?

    I agree with your assessment. I thought the slapstick humor in the beginning was overdone, and the side story wasn’t enjoyable. But the Force/Rey/Kylo/Luke stuff was awesome. I would’ve enjoyed more of that.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by trey View Post
    I thought I saw the Jedi texts in a drawer on the Millenium Falcon at the end. Did anyone else see that?

    I agree with your assessment. I thought the slapstick humor in the beginning was overdone, and the side story wasn’t enjoyable. But the Force/Rey/Kylo/Luke stuff was awesome. I would’ve enjoyed more of that.
    Just got out of the movie. I’m pretty sure I saw the same thing you did but I couldn’t be sure. Curious to know whether Kylo was just playing on Rey’s fears about her parents or if he’s telling the truth

  12. #12
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    Random thoughts having gotten home about 20 minutes ago as I try to get my WAY too excited 10 year old to sleep:

    (1) While there might have been a little too much humor, there was some really funny stuff. Luke, Yoda, Poe. Kylo kicking Hux around. Made the movie fun, but maybe too fun.

    (2) I get that Jason didn’t like the Finn/Rose Canto Bight interlude, but I think that was important in Finn’s continued development into a hero and a leader — something that will pay off (by necessity — there are what 50 people left in the Resitance by the end of the movie) in Episode IX. And yes, there were supposed to be some romantic sparks with Finn and Rey. They are there in Force Awakens too.

    (3) The scene that is the end of Snoke and the battle with the Throne Guard was REALLY cool. All of it. One of the best scenes in the whole franchise, I think. Also enjoyed Holdo weaponizing the ship by using light speed to launch it into Snoke’s ship. That was really cool. Rose survived the explosion? Sure. So did Phasma and some Stormtroopers. Who knows how long she was out. I think you were overthinking that Jason.

    (4) I love that two years ago we were all trying to figure out who Snoke was and it ends up not mattering at all. I also like that Rey’s lineage doesn’t matter. Assuming Kylo was telling the truth.

    (5) Leia’s survival was weird, but Force powers have been expanded in both of these movies. Mind reading? Holding a blaster bolt in space? Snoke’s powers seemed on a different level than Palpatine. And the ability to project and connect across space. I didn’t love Leia surviving — especially knowing Carrie Fisher had passed — and thought it was cheesy, but it didn’t ruin the movie.

    (6) Yes, Jason, I think Luke did exhaust his life force by doing what he did. Or maybe he just realized he’d served his purpose and came to peace with the world. It’s not an end for a Jedi — and I suspect Mark Hamill will be busy with a Episode IX. Notice that Force Yoda wasn’t just a ghost? His staff at least made contact with Luke. Seems like Force Luke could effect the physical world too.

    (7) It wasn’t perfect, but it was plenty good. It was visually spectacular at pints, fun as heck at others, and it wasn’t just a carbon copy of Empire. Episode IX was always probably going to be Kylo vs. Rey, but with the Resistance so depleated, rhere’s lots of room for new stories and characters. Force Awakens was great, but it was just A New Hope retold. This had a few echoes of Empire, but was much more it’s own story. Leads to an exciting conclusion, even if we know how it ends ...
    Last edited by Chicago 1995; 12-15-2017 at 12:20 AM. Reason: I despise Autocorrect

  13. #13
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    Going to see it a second time this morning, so my thoughts may change a little after that.

    Overall, I really enjoyed it. My major quibbles:

    1. No Snoke backstory. Maybe we get some in the next film with a closer look at Kylo, but that is by no means a given. Would be nice to know who Snoke is, where he came from, how he managed to get to Ben Solo.

    2. Rey's lineage. In this case, I assume Kylo is telling the truth. I'm a little disappointed that she doesn't have ties to anyone, but mainly disappointed in the way she found out. I thought it deserved better.

    3. Just a tad too much humor. I thought it was well done, but maybe just a little too much. I could have done without the Luke shoulder brush at the end. That seemed out of place.

    As of now, those are my only three concerns with the film. I think I enjoyed the Force Awakens more, but part of that may be that we were introduced to new characters after a long layoff.

    My favorite scenes from Last Jedi:

    Luke explaining the force to Rey. I thought this was executed perfectly. Not just the standard "it's the energy blah blah" line we typically get.

    The opening scene with Poe taking out the Dradnought cannons.

    The scene where Rey tells Luke that the galaxy might need a legend, but she just needs a teacher.

    The Kylo and Rey fight scene after Kylo kills Snoke was perfection. Rey believes she has turned Kylo to the light side, but he wants none of it. He wants to start new.


    Can't wait to see it again in a few hours.

  14. #14
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    Can I just say I am thrilled most folks seem to be agreeing with me about the weak middle portion of the film. When I made my comments, there was almost universal praise for the movie in the critic world and I was sorta afraid my own expectations had led me to be less than completely awed by it. Again, there is much to love in this flick, but also some real sticking points that hurt the movie.
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  15. #15
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    Definitely gets better on the second viewing.

    Rey and Kylo fighting against Snoke's guards together is just pefect.

    Probably my fourth favorite film in the franchise. Sandwiched between The Force Awakens and Return.

    Still did not care for Rose at all the second time around. Feel like her character should have just died after she stopped Finn.

  16. #16
    I called it weeks ago! Porgs are Chewie's snacks!

    Quote Originally Posted by Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15 View Post
    Joke is on everyone. "This is not going to go the way you think" refers to the porgs.

    All I can say is, people think that little guy is Chewie's right hand man, but in actuality, he is more like Chewie's "beef jerky sitting on the dashboard."

  17. #17
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    Sigh...

    I think (once again) JE could have written my review for me. I agree with just about everything he wrote. Overall I liked the movie. It was an enjoyable 2 plus hours. But I didn't love it. It wasn't in the same league as The Avengers. Or Guardians of the Galaxy. All three original Star Wars movies were better. Some of this will echo what others have said...but I'll put down what I liked and didn't.

    Liked: Rey and Kilo against Snoke. It was great. And after Kilo killed Snoke, I honestly didn't know what would happen. I thought maybe he does turn good. Maybe she turns bad. The tension was great.

    Light speed jump through the ships. Very well done.

    Luke v Kilo. Every second of that. And the fact that it was just a projection.

    Benicio Del Toro. I liked his character. Wish there had been more of him.

    The humor. This is what DC seems to not understand. People like to laugh out loud - even during intense dramas.

    Rey and Kilo's interactions. Yeah, it borrowed a bit from Voldemort and Harry Potter. But still was good and well done.

    Luke having lost faith in The Force. Fully believable. As was his method of teaching her.

    What I didn't like

    The humor. OK, that's a contradiction. But just a few times they made the joke go too far. The opening with "I'm holding for Hux" was fantastic...but they pulled it out one joke too long. Same with the little fuzzy creatures and Chewbacca.

    Laura Dern. Meh.

    The trip to the casino planet and then the plan to disengage the tracker. As JE summed up perfectly - there was no point to this, at all, other than extending the movie. The woman with the big eyes - what was that scene? Seriously? And who was the guy with the thing on his jacket? And how should she know he had it on? And what were those horse things? And what was the point of the casino planet? Bad, bad, bad, bad, bad.

    Rey's lineage, or lack thereof. If, truly, her parents are nobody of consequence...well, that sucks (at least for me). She should be Kilo's sister, or Obi Won's daughter. Especially if she's going to be the strongest Jedi ever. It just doesn't make sense that the lightsaber was calling for her. Or that the force was. And right after Kilo said that her parents were nobody, I thought "OK, he's lying to her. It will be someone important. It's a setup." But...the very end of the movie gave me doubts. The little peasant boy walks outside, and uses the force to grab the broom. That made me think that maybe it's just chance (genetics?). I hope not.

    Snoke's non existent back story. So disappointing. I mean it was cool how they killed him...but still.

    Finn versus the silver helmet lady. Such a cliched fight. From the "let's not kill them right away, because if we delay then something will happen that will keep us from being able to kill them" line to the "fall off a ledge, only to not really die, and come back up in a clever way and kill the other person" ploy. Lazy writing in my opinion.

    Leia coming back to life and flying through space. Noooooooooo!!!!!!! It was so bad on so many levels. First off, as we all know, Carrie Fisher is gone. They needed to kill of Leia's character. Now they will have to make something up for the last movie (or CGI her into some scenes). And the way she "died" in VIII was actually pretty cool. Kilo not being able to kill her, then someone else doing it. And they could have made the rest of the movie without her. This was easily the worst part of the movie for me.

    So now we have a rebellion with about 30 people, and maybe 6 pilots left. Against the First Order. Not sure how they will tie things up, but I'm sure they will. Again, I hope that there's some kind of personal connection between Rey and Kilo, because that would make it more difficult for her to kill him, which she will have to do. And by the way, we need a back story on Yoda. And on Darth Vadar killing all the Jedi's.

  18. #18
    Only Leia's space float bothered me of the things listed above, but it did bring me out of an otherwise immersive movie to chortle at the absurdity, so that was a bummer.

    I had no problem with Rey's lineage or the plots that went nowhere. I read a post on Reddit saying that this movie basically inverted the paradigms of the previous ones. Kylo says flat out "kill the past, move forward." Well, we had rebel plans that nearly worked and ended up fruitless. We had a defeated Luke, who was responsible for the rise of the Dark Side. We had sacrifices that amounted to nothing. We learned that Rey's parents are, well, nobodys.

    For a series that here-to-fore has been all about redemption of family members, Kylo and Rey invert this storyline.

    I am okay with all that. We also had great fights, some fun explosions, more character development of our new people.

    Oh, I also thought the hologram/advice/fight scene of the Bug Eyed character from Ep VII was an absurd way to shoehorn in another sorta-familiar character.

    I felt Luke got the final chapter he deserved.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Udaman View Post
    So now we have a rebellion with about 30 people, and maybe 6 pilots left. Against the First Order. Not sure how they will tie things up, but I'm sure they will. Again, I hope that there's some kind of personal connection between Rey and Kilo, because that would make it more difficult for her to kill him, which she will have to do. And by the way, we need a back story on Yoda. And on Darth Vadar killing all the Jedi's.
    I'm betting that some more allies identify themselves due to the distress signal sent out from Crait. They said it was received, but no one responded. Surely someone will respond. At least, that seems the most logical to me.

    As for Leia floating in space...I didn't care for it, but it didn't bother me too much either. It's a science fiction series about people controlling energy, shooting lightning out of their hands, wielding laser swords, etc. It doesn't seem all that out of place. Especially when you consider in the OT Han and Leia just jump outside on an asteroid with a little CPAP mask.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by luburch View Post
    I'm betting that some more allies identify themselves due to the distress signal sent out from Crait. They said it was received, but no one responded. Surely someone will respond. At least, that seems the most logical to me.

    As for Leia floating in space...I didn't care for it, but it didn't bother me too much either. It's a science fiction series about people controlling energy, shooting lightning out of their hands, wielding laser swords, etc. It doesn't seem all that out of place. Especially when you consider in the OT Han and Leia just jump outside on an asteroid with a little CPAP mask.
    To be fair, they were actually inside a giant space slug...although that probably makes your point stronger.

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