Big Cats

[Devilwin]

I once worked for a while at the Zoo in Asheboro, while it was in its infancy. One of my charges there was a Siberian (Amur) tigress named Tigger. Although she was eventually sent to Detroit for breeding, I will never forget the interest in big cats she inspired. There was not yet an Asian section to the zoo, so no tigers reside there yet. There are, however, leopards, lions and pumas (which, although the size of leopards, are considered "small" cats, since they cannot roar).
Big cats are the ultimate predators, with speed, power and stealth second to no other group of animals.
The Siberian and Bengal tigers are the largest big cats, with some males from both subspecies reaching over 600 pounds.
African lions come in third, with males sometimes reaching over 500 pounds.
The Asiatic lion and Indo Chinese tiger both top out around 420 pounds.
The Malayan, Sumatran, and South China tigers top out just over 300 pounds.
The jaguar can, in exceptional cases, reach 250 pounds.
Snow leopards and leopards can reach 170 pounds.

Historically, the Siberian tiger was once clearly the largest cat, with some individuals confirmed at over 700 pounds. But most of these larger tigers were taken by hunters, and the gene pool that created these super large Siberians was removed. Today's largest Siberian tigers are no larger than Bengal tigers.
One giant Siberian tiger was measured at 12 feet 2 inches long, between pegs, and weighed 765 pounds.
But the biggest tiger ever killed was a cattle killing Bengal, shot in 1967, which weighed an astonishing 857 pounds!
The African lion can also reach enormous proportions, with a 690 pound cat killed in 1869 near Hectorspruitt.
The leopard, like tigers, have a wide range of sizes between subspecies, but the record was an Indian leopard shot that weighed 239 pounds, and was 7 feet 4 inches long.
I am sometimes asked my opinion on a tiger vs lion fight. It depends on the individual cats involved. Tigers have killed lions, and lions have killed tigers. Nearly all of these encounters have been in captive conditions.
So lets take a look at our two combatants. Take a six year old male African lion from Uganda, and a six year old Bengal tiger from the India Nepal border.
Both great cats are in the prime of their lives. The tiger is somewhat heavier, the lion a bit taller at the shoulder. The lion is a brawler, rushing forward to maul with one paw while balancing on the other three legs. The tiger is more like a clever boxer, rising to balance on the hind legs while mauling with the front legs. The lion constantly goes on the attack, while the more deliberate tiger circles and watches for an opportunity. The tiger attacks the lion's neck, but gets only hair from the lion's mane. The lion eventually begins to tire from his exertions, and the tiger cripples it with a deep bite to the spine (tiger's canines are longer), then grabs the lion's throat, killing it.
This is just my opinion, but this scenario has been played out in real battles between the two. In ancient Rome, for example, tigers were often pitted against lions, and the tigers usually won.
But tigers don't always win. Clyde Beatty said he had a huge male lion that defeated several of his tigers. But most experts agree the tiger is the superior fighter.
Lions hunt in groups called prides, and tigers usually hunt alone. Lions sometimes kill Cape Buffalo, which can weigh 1400 pounds, but usually this is accomplished by several lionesses and at least one male to bring down the buffalo. Tigers sometimes kill the large Indian bison, the gaur, by themselves, and gaur can be 1700 pounds or more.
Lions sometimes prey on African elephants, usually sub adults, by attacking in a group, slashing the unfortunate animal til it falls. Tigers, on the other hand, have killed Asian elephants by themselves, although this has been recorded just five times.
Both of the world's super cats are spectacular animals, and if they disappeared, the world would be a much sadder place without their beauty and majesty..

[rasputin]

I once worked for a while at the Zoo in Asheboro, while it was in its infancy. One of my charges there was a Siberian (Amur) tigress named Tigger. Although she was eventually sent to Detroit for breeding, I will never forget the interest in big cats she inspired. There was not yet an Asian section to the zoo, so no tigers reside there yet. There are, however, leopards, lions and pumas (which, although the size of leopards, are considered "small" cats, since they cannot roar).
Big cats are the ultimate predators, with speed, power and stealth second to no other group of animals.
The Siberian and Bengal tigers are the largest big cats, with some males from both subspecies reaching over 600 pounds.
African lions come in third, with males sometimes reaching over 500 pounds.
The Asiatic lion and Indo Chinese tiger both top out around 420 pounds.
The Malayan, Sumatran, and South China tigers top out just over 300 pounds.
The jaguar can, in exceptional cases, reach 250 pounds.
Snow leopards and leopards can reach 170 pounds.

Historically, the Siberian tiger was once clearly the largest cat, with some individuals confirmed at over 700 pounds. But most of these larger tigers were taken by hunters, and the gene pool that created these super large Siberians was removed. Today's largest Siberian tigers are no larger than Bengal tigers.
One giant Siberian tiger was measured at 12 feet 2 inches long, between pegs, and weighed 765 pounds.
But the biggest tiger ever killed was a cattle killing Bengal, shot in 1967, which weighed an astonishing 857 pounds!
The African lion can also reach enormous proportions, with a 690 pound cat killed in 1869 near Hectorspruitt.
The leopard, like tigers, have a wide range of sizes between subspecies, but the record was an Indian leopard shot that weighed 239 pounds, and was 7 feet 4 inches long.
I am sometimes asked my opinion on a tiger vs lion fight. It depends on the individual cats involved. Tigers have killed lions, and lions have killed tigers. Nearly all of these encounters have been in captive conditions.
So lets take a look at our two combatants. Take a six year old male African lion from Uganda, and a six year old Bengal tiger from the India Nepal border.
Both great cats are in the prime of their lives. The tiger is somewhat heavier, the lion a bit taller at the shoulder. The lion is a brawler, rushing forward to maul with one paw while balancing on the other three legs. The tiger is more like a clever boxer, rising to balance on the hind legs while mauling with the front legs. The lion constantly goes on the attack, while the more deliberate tiger circles and watches for an opportunity. The tiger attacks the lion's neck, but gets only hair from the lion's mane. The lion eventually begins to tire from his exertions, and the tiger cripples it with a deep bite to the spine (tiger's canines are longer), then grabs the lion's throat, killing it.
This is just my opinion, but this scenario has been played out in real battles between the two. In ancient Rome, for example, tigers were often pitted against lions, and the tigers usually won.
But tigers don't always win. Clyde Beatty said he had a huge male lion that defeated several of his tigers. But most experts agree the tiger is the superior fighter.
Lions hunt in groups called prides, and tigers usually hunt alone. Lions sometimes kill Cape Buffalo, which can weigh 1400 pounds, but usually this is accomplished by several lionesses and at least one male to bring down the buffalo. Tigers sometimes kill the large Indian bison, the gaur, by themselves, and gaur can be 1700 pounds or more.
Lions sometimes prey on African elephants, usually sub adults, by attacking in a group, slashing the unfortunate animal til it falls. Tigers, on the other hand, have killed Asian elephants by themselves, although this has been recorded just five times.
Both of the world's super cats are spectacular animals, and if they disappeared, the world would be a much sadder place without their beauty and majesty..

In our house we have Igor, a 22-pounder who (when he's not asleep on the bed) thinks he is a saber-toothed tiger.

[OldPhiKap]

I once worked for a while at the Zoo in Asheboro . . . .

You seriously may win the award for Most Interesting Man on DBR. This is a great post.

I think two things make the “who is the best” discussion difficult. First, heads-up, age likely has a lot to do with it. Second, some are pack hunters while some are more self-sufficient for lack of a better term.

[-jk]

You seriously may win the award for Most Interesting Man on DBR. This is a great post.

I think two things make the “who is the best” discussion difficult. First, heads-up, age likely has a lot to do with it. Second, some are pack hunters while some are more self-sufficient for lack of a better term.

Where would a large pack of wolves fit? (And, no, not the ones down the road; the ones we've mostly eliminated...)

-jk

[Devilwin]

Where would a large pack of wolves fit? (And, no, not the ones down the road; the ones we've mostly eliminated...)

-jk

Tigers have been killed by large packs of dholes, the red wild dog of Asia. But usually the dogs suffer enormous casualties, in one case in the forests of Madras, a large male tiger was attacked by nearly 30 dholes. Dholes average 40-50 pounds, and are vicious hunters. In this case, the tiger escaped after killing 17 dholes. Russian hunters say wolf packs move out of areas frequented by tigers. A large healthy tiger could easily fend off a pack up to ten strong. Tigers can crush a buffalo's skull with one swipe, so any wolf that came within range of those quick, sledgehammer blows would be killed. A tiger dragged a dead buffalo 300 yards up a steep hill, after 13 men failed to move it a foot!

[BD80]

The Tigers up here in Detroit have proven to be relatively harmless over the last few years.

The local Lions can be dangerous, but are as likely to hurt themselves as an opponent.

The Jaguars have been sneaky dangerous this year.

The Bengals are vicious but more growl than bite.

[Devilwin]

You seriously may win the award for Most Interesting Man on DBR. This is a great post.

I think two things make the “who is the best” discussion difficult. First, heads-up, age likely has a lot to do with it. Second, some are pack hunters while some are more self-sufficient for lack of a better term.

Thanks, lol. Yes, it would have to be animals of similar age and condition.
As for the numbers game, male lions usually rule prides in a coalition, up to four or more, usually related. While it is true lions must fight to retain their pride, male tigers also fight to keep their territory, and they must go it alone. Tigers are more heavily muscled than lions, with longer canine teeth, and are more agile fighters. Lions just cannot stand on their hind legs and fight like a tiger can. Tigers go into a fight to kill, while lions just want to bludgeon you and play with you. Tigers sometimes will in captivity seem to submit to a lion. This is not a case of fear, but evolved intelligence. Tigers are lone hunters, and an injured hunter could starve. Lions go into the fray with the backing of the coalition. But forced to fight, tigers go into battle with one thought in mind.To kill his enemy.
Many experts rank the Bengal tigers of northern India and Nepal as the most ferocious fighters of all the big cats. A study there in 2004 weighed and measured 14 prime male tigers, and 4 of them were over 600 pounds..

[fuse]

Sporked the original poster, wanted to offer public thanks.

Great thread on an interesting topic.

Growing up, in addition to be fascinated by dinosaurs, the sabre toothed tiger was pretty scary.

The video that was going around a few months ago of lions hugging their “foster mom” human when reunited years later was striking on a lot of levels.

[moonpie23]

i'm pretty sure we'd all be in trouble if house cats were 100 lbs....our 14 lb american tabby will catch and kill a fly that gets in within 30secs (speed and accuracy) and jumped a raccoon that weighed at least that much and had it "dead to rights" within 10 seconds of the confrontation...

you make think that you're playing with the cat, but trust me, the only one playing is the cat....



here's a shot of mufassa from Animal Kingdom here at disney taken today...simba.jpg

[wilson]

Cool thread. I'm enjoying all the facts (Devilwin, what an interesting life you've led), and wanted to share a few of my favorite lion shots from a safari trip several years ago.
Ngorongoro Crater:
106. Ngorongoro sauntering male lion.jpg
Serengeti National Park:
42. Serengeti lion walking up kopje.jpg
Lioness Breakfast:
55. Serengeti lioness sentry 3.jpg
"Ready for my closeup":
80. Serengeti lion face.jpg

[CameronBornAndBred]

When I was a kid, our babysitter was a volunteer at the big cat rescue place in Pittsboro, and she took my sister and I there. They had tiger cubs at the time, and we got to go in the cage with them. As I was playing with one cub, another one jumped me from behind, raking down both of my calves with his claws.
I was so bummed out months later when those scars finally faded and disappeared. I mean, seriously, who gets to show off scars from a tiger attack?

[Devilwin]

The place there is now called Carnivore Preservation Trust. I've been there, really cool place.

[swood1000]

Tigers have been killed by large packs of dholes, the red wild dog of Asia. But usually the dogs suffer enormous casualties, in one case in the forests of Madras, a large male tiger was attacked by nearly 30 dholes. Dholes average 40-50 pounds, and are vicious hunters. In this case, the tiger escaped after killing 17 dholes. Russian hunters say wolf packs move out of areas frequented by tigers. A large healthy tiger could easily fend off a pack up to ten strong. Tigers can crush a buffalo's skull with one swipe, so any wolf that came within range of those quick, sledgehammer blows would be killed. A tiger dragged a dead buffalo 300 yards up a steep hill, after 13 men failed to move it a foot!

On the other hand, it appears that lions have their paws full against a pack of hyenas.

[Devilwin]

Glad y'all liked this subject. Hyenas will mob lionesses and drive them from a kill, but when the big males show up, the hyenas decamp..or die!

[Doria]

The Tigers up here in Detroit have proven to be relatively harmless over the last few years.

The local Lions can be dangerous, but are as likely to hurt themselves as an opponent.

The Jaguars have been sneaky dangerous this year.

The Bengals are vicious but more growl than bite.

While your point if hilariously accurate, and surprisingly/depressingly accurate with regards to the Lions, the Tigers may be relatively harmless, but the spectators have been known to throw toasters and other smallish objects (they wisely cancelled free commemorative bat day...). I took my mom to a game, and was slightly embarrassed when the aforementioned toaster incident occurred. I mean, who takes a toaster to a ball game?!

[JNort]

I once worked for a while at the Zoo in Asheboro, while it was in its infancy. One of my charges there was a Siberian (Amur) tigress named Tigger. Although she was eventually sent to Detroit for breeding, I will never forget the interest in big cats she inspired. There was not yet an Asian section to the zoo, so no tigers reside there yet. There are, however, leopards, lions and pumas (which, although the size of leopards, are considered "small" cats, since they cannot roar).
Big cats are the ultimate predators, with speed, power and stealth second to no other group of animals.
The Siberian and Bengal tigers are the largest big cats, with some males from both subspecies reaching over 600 pounds.
African lions come in third, with males sometimes reaching over 500 pounds.
The Asiatic lion and Indo Chinese tiger both top out around 420 pounds.
The Malayan, Sumatran, and South China tigers top out just over 300 pounds.
The jaguar can, in exceptional cases, reach 250 pounds.
Snow leopards and leopards can reach 170 pounds.

Historically, the Siberian tiger was once clearly the largest cat, with some individuals confirmed at over 700 pounds. But most of these larger tigers were taken by hunters, and the gene pool that created these super large Siberians was removed. Today's largest Siberian tigers are no larger than Bengal tigers.
One giant Siberian tiger was measured at 12 feet 2 inches long, between pegs, and weighed 765 pounds.
But the biggest tiger ever killed was a cattle killing Bengal, shot in 1967, which weighed an astonishing 857 pounds!
The African lion can also reach enormous proportions, with a 690 pound cat killed in 1869 near Hectorspruitt.
The leopard, like tigers, have a wide range of sizes between subspecies, but the record was an Indian leopard shot that weighed 239 pounds, and was 7 feet 4 inches long.
I am sometimes asked my opinion on a tiger vs lion fight. It depends on the individual cats involved. Tigers have killed lions, and lions have killed tigers. Nearly all of these encounters have been in captive conditions.
So lets take a look at our two combatants. Take a six year old male African lion from Uganda, and a six year old Bengal tiger from the India Nepal border.
Both great cats are in the prime of their lives. The tiger is somewhat heavier, the lion a bit taller at the shoulder. The lion is a brawler, rushing forward to maul with one paw while balancing on the other three legs. The tiger is more like a clever boxer, rising to balance on the hind legs while mauling with the front legs. The lion constantly goes on the attack, while the more deliberate tiger circles and watches for an opportunity. The tiger attacks the lion's neck, but gets only hair from the lion's mane. The lion eventually begins to tire from his exertions, and the tiger cripples it with a deep bite to the spine (tiger's canines are longer), then grabs the lion's throat, killing it.
This is just my opinion, but this scenario has been played out in real battles between the two. In ancient Rome, for example, tigers were often pitted against lions, and the tigers usually won.
But tigers don't always win. Clyde Beatty said he had a huge male lion that defeated several of his tigers. But most experts agree the tiger is the superior fighter.
Lions hunt in groups called prides, and tigers usually hunt alone. Lions sometimes kill Cape Buffalo, which can weigh 1400 pounds, but usually this is accomplished by several lionesses and at least one male to bring down the buffalo. Tigers sometimes kill the large Indian bison, the gaur, by themselves, and gaur can be 1700 pounds or more.
Lions sometimes prey on African elephants, usually sub adults, by attacking in a group, slashing the unfortunate animal til it falls. Tigers, on the other hand, have killed Asian elephants by themselves, although this has been recorded just five times.
Both of the world's super cats are spectacular animals, and if they disappeared, the world would be a much sadder place without their beauty and majesty..

So how did you get to even having a job at the zoo like that?

[BD80]

So how did you get to even having a job at the zoo like that?

By outrunning the other applicant ...

[Devilwin]

They were taking applications for keepers at the Interim Zoo. I applied, and during the interview impressed them with my knowledge of wildlife. The animals were coming in slowly, and my first charges were two servals and two caracals, which are bobcat sized lynx like cats from Africa. Then Tigger came, at four months she was already a handful. Then we got two leopards, a male from Africa and a black Indian female.
The hours at the Interim Zoo declined as the new main exhibits came on line (Africa, North America) so rather than starve I moved on to Fedex.
It was really sad, because they wanted people with degrees, and I didn't have the formal college they wanted. I could have stayed on doing menial tasks, but I wanted to work directly with my cats.
I really missed Tigger. She was included in the Amur tiger breeding program, last I heard she had grown into a magnificent 400 pound tigress, and had several litters of cubs.

[Devilwin]

Cool thread. I'm enjoying all the facts (Devilwin, what an interesting life you've led), and wanted to share a few of my favorite lion shots from a safari trip several years ago.
Ngorongoro Crater:
106. Ngorongoro sauntering male lion.jpg
Serengeti National Park:
42. Serengeti lion walking up kopje.jpg
Lioness Breakfast:
55. Serengeti lioness sentry 3.jpg
"Ready for my closeup":
80. Serengeti lion face.jpg

Great pics. Nice trip, I am jealous!