Professional Advice

[left_hook_lacey]

I work in the pharmaceutical manufacturing industry. I left my old company about 6 months ago for a slightly better position at one of our customer's sites. To get this job, I asked for a letter of recommendation from a former manager of mine, who is now a senior manager at the new company I was applying for. He went out of his way to make sure I got the job.

Fast forward 6 months, and my old company is trying to hire me back in a capacity much more advanced than when I left. I've turned them down twice, but they are now making offers I can't ignore.

So is it uncouth for me to leave my new job so soon after my former manager wrote me a glowing recommendation letter and spoke to the hiring manager personally? Would it offend you if someone did this to you?

I'm worried about burning bridges and the optics of leaving so soon. The pharma manufacturing world is a tight-knit community, with many of the employees bouncing around the various plants in the area.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

I work in the pharmaceutical manufacturing industry. I left my old company about 6 months ago for a slightly better position at one of our customer's sites. To get this job, I asked for a letter of recommendation from a former manager of mine, who is now a senior manager at the new company I was applying for. He went out of his way to make sure I got the job.

Fast forward 6 months, and my old company is trying to hire me back in a capacity much more advanced than when I left. I've turned them down twice, but they are now making offers I can't ignore.

So is it uncouth for me to leave my new job so soon after my former manager wrote me a glowing recommendation letter and spoke to the hiring manager personally? Would it offend you if someone did this to you?

I'm worried about burning bridges and the optics of leaving so soon. The pharma manufacturing world is a tight-knit community, with many of the employees bouncing around the various plants in the area.

First of all, congrats on having very good options! I see three options:

1) Most industries seem to have an unwritten rule thag anything less than a year or eighteen months at a job without a supercompelling reason looks poor. If it is a one-time leap, I don't think anyone would look at it twice, but again, I don't know the particulars of your industry. In other words, stay put for anothet six to twelve months, then look at options.

2) Screw it, take the job. The optics of returning to a previous employer are obviously different than going to a new job, and your number one obligation is to yourself and your financial obligations. You can build a good narrative around why you went back to this company, and people who know you will understand.

3) Leverage your old company's interest in you for a better situation at your new job. This is the trickiest plan, but long term might be most lucrative. Go to your current employer and say "I sure like it here, but I have an obligation to listen to what my alternatives are. Can you make it more attractive for me to stay?". High risk, high reward.

Good luck! You seem to be in a great situation.

[left_hook_lacey]

First of all, congrats on having very good options! I see three options:

1) Most industries seem to have an unwritten rule thag anything less than a year or eighteen months at a job without a supercompelling reason looks poor. If it is a one-time leap, I don't think anyone would look at it twice, but again, I don't know the particulars of your industry. In other words, stay put for anothet six to twelve months, then look at options.

2) Screw it, take the job. The optics of returning to a previous employer are obviously different than going to a new job, and your number one obligation is to yourself and your financial obligations. You can build a good narrative around why you went back to this company, and people who know you will understand.

3) Leverage your old company's interest in you for a better situation at your new job. This is the trickiest plan, but long term might be most lucrative. Go to your current employer and say "I sure like it here, but I have an obligation to listen to what my alternatives are. Can you make it more attractive for me to stay?". High risk, high reward.

Good luck! You seem to be in a great situation.

Thank you so much. This is exactly the type of advice I was looking for. You've even given me a few phrases to use that until now, I was struggling to put into words how to discuss my position with the former company and the current one.

One more thing while I have you and since you seem to have a nose for this. I have an interview with the former job later this month. How do I navigate the whole "why are you leaving your current job" questions without sounding arrogant or rude? My first response in my head is "Dude, you called me!", or "I'm not leaving my current job unless this job is as good as you said it would be!"

I know that's not the way to say it, but I'm not good and tip toeing around the obvious. Interviews are so full of BS.

[swood1000]

I work in the pharmaceutical manufacturing industry. I left my old company about 6 months ago for a slightly better position at one of our customer's sites. To get this job, I asked for a letter of recommendation from a former manager of mine, who is now a senior manager at the new company I was applying for. He went out of his way to make sure I got the job.

Fast forward 6 months, and my old company is trying to hire me back in a capacity much more advanced than when I left. I've turned them down twice, but they are now making offers I can't ignore.

So is it uncouth for me to leave my new job so soon after my former manager wrote me a glowing recommendation letter and spoke to the hiring manager personally? Would it offend you if someone did this to you?

I'm worried about burning bridges and the optics of leaving so soon. The pharma manufacturing world is a tight-knit community, with many of the employees bouncing around the various plants in the area.

Have you considered giving your current employer the opportunity to meet that offer? If they did would you want to stay? Such interest from an employer who knows you well would be impressive. It might start a conversation about how fast they see you progressing up the ladder.

At some point, if there has been no implied or explicit promise to stay, no reasonable person could expect you to turn down such an offer. If you were offered $10 million per year for example.

How possible is it that after six months the old employer would find your performance in the new position less than they bargained for and tell you that you could have your old job back or be terminated? Would you want a contract of a guaranteed length and would that be available?

My assumption is that the more junior an employee is the more effort in takes to train him, so that six months might be when some employees really start to be productive. Were you productive from day one in your current job?

[swood1000]

How do I navigate the whole "why are you leaving your current job" questions without sounding arrogant or rude? My first response in my head is "Dude, you called me!", or "I'm not leaving my current job unless this job is as good as you said it would be!"

That seems to be the type of question you get when you apply to a job opening out of the blue. Wouldn't your interview be with the same people whom you have already turned down twice? Isn't the position much more attractive and doesn't it pay much more than your current position? It seems unlikely that they would ask you that. Furthermore, if they want you that much then they're less likely to ask you unpleasant questions but they might try to divine how long you're likely to stay or whether by leaving you are breaking a promise you made to your current employer.

[left_hook_lacey]

Have you considered giving your current employer the opportunity to meet that offer? If they did would you want to stay? Such interest from an employer who knows you well would be impressive. It might start a conversation about how fast they see you progressing up the ladder.

At some point, if there has been no implied or explicit promise to stay, no reasonable person could expect you to turn down such an offer. If you were offered $10 million per year for example.

How possible is it that after six months the old employer would find your performance in the new position less than they bargained for and tell you that you could have your old job back or be terminated? Would you want a contract of a guaranteed length and would that be available?

My assumption is that the more junior an employee is the more effort in takes to train him, so that six months might be when some employees really start to be productive. Were you productive from day one in your current job?

A.) I have considered it. One of the main reasons, other than the benefits, that I accepted this position is for the exposure to some higher-level technologies they have here that are industry leading and can solidify a resume in this industry.
B.) I think they would have to beat the offer for me to stay because my commute is almost double here. I miss the extra time I had before and after work that I spend driving now.
C.) Not very likely that they would find my performance undesirable. It takes quite a bit of time to understand what they do, and the managers in this department know that when I left, I was one of the best, and had been labeled "rising star" in my last performance review. I know more about what they do, than they do. Not trying to sound arrogant at all, but of all things, this would be the least of my worries.
D.) I don't think they do guaranteed contracts at my level, unless I was coming in as a private contractor. They don't really do that very often.
E.) No, I wasn't productive in my first two months here. Not because I wasn't performing, it's just the way the training is set up. We're not allowed to even come close to a clean room or anything that comes in contact with the drugs until many classes are taken and exams passed. The first few months are like being in school really. I'm just now being allowed to assist on projects that have direct drug contact.

[left_hook_lacey]

That seems to be the type of question you get when you apply to a job opening out of the blue. Wouldn't your interview be with the same people whom you have already turned down twice? Isn't the position much more attractive and doesn't it pay much more than your current position? It seems unlikely that they would ask you that. Furthermore, if they want you that much then they're less likely to ask you unpleasant questions but they might try to divine how long you're likely to stay or whether by leaving you are breaking a promise you made to your current employer.

Yeah, I guess I should've specified. The director of operations, and the engineering manager are the ones that have been in contact with me wanting me to come back. They are 2 of 5 interviews that day and only have a partial voice in the final decision. I was more referring to the HR reps and regional managers I have to interview with. They have the final say on the hiring and benefits package. They will likely not have any clue that I was recruited to come back, and will likely be reading questions from a script like a robot, in my experience.

[PackMan97]

How do I navigate the whole "why are you leaving your current job" questions without sounding arrogant or rude? My first response in my head is "Dude, you called me!", or "I'm not leaving my current job unless this job is as good as you said it would be!"

In your best Marlin Brando voice, "You are going to make me an offer I can't refuse". If it's a big step up, just go with that and then talk about what you've done to prepare for the responsibility the new position brings.

I've always asked this question in an interview to see if the person is toxic. You'd be surprised at the number of folks that would go off about their old boss, or coworkers, or office space and just give a big long list of things they hated about their old job. That's pretty much an instant "No" for anyone I'm hiring. What I want to see is not excitement or desire to leave the old job, but excitement and desire for the opportunity I am offering.

[left_hook_lacey]

In your best Marlin Brando voice, "You are going to make me an offer I can't refuse". If it's a big step up, just go with that and then talk about what you've done to prepare for the responsibility the new position brings.

I've always asked this question in an interview to see if the person is toxic. You'd be surprised at the number of folks that would go off about their old boss, or coworkers, or office space and just give a big long list of things they hated about their old job. That's pretty much an instant "No" for anyone I'm hiring. What I want to see is not excitement or desire to leave the old job, but excitement and desire for the opportunity I am offering.

Thanks PackMan.

[Channing]

Just to keep in mind, is there any risk that you have had access to confidential info at the current company where they may think you are taking trade secrets back to the old company?

[swood1000]

What percentage of your current salary is the offered salary?

[left_hook_lacey]

What percentage of your current salary is the offered salary?

Would be a 15% increase over what I'm making now. Benefits pretty much the same.

[Jeffrey]

Would be a 15% increase over what I'm making now. Benefits pretty much the same.

How old are you?

[cato]

Be careful about how/if you tell your current employer about an opportunity with your former employer. In my line of work, it is very hard to find certain employees. I have seen an example of one of those employees using another offer to negotiate a promotion and raise. The employer felt trapped, and basically had to meet the request/demand. But the instant the deal was done, the employer started quietly looking for a replacement that would not be so quick to leap for another opportunity.

[Jeffrey]

Be careful about how/if you tell your current employer about an opportunity with your former employer. In my line of work, it is very hard to find certain employees. I have seen an example of one of those employees using another offer to negotiate a promotion and raise. The employer felt trapped, and basically had to meet the request/demand. But the instant the deal was done, the employer started quietly looking for a replacement that would not be so quick to leap for another opportunity.

Great advice and insight! IMO, the employer made the prudent decision.

IMO, this is where the world is heading. Employees and employers are going to become less and less loyal to each other. It's ultimately bad for both. Employees better do some great retirement planning.

[swood1000]

Is the rank being offered 15% over your current rank?

You said your former manager wrote a glowing recommendation. Did they decline to match your current salary because they couldn’t pay that for your former position and then suddenly the current position came open?

How much of a benefit will the higher level technologies you have been exposed to be to your old company? Did you sign a non-disclosure agreement? Will that become an issue? Did you sign a non-compete agreement that they could argue is in play?

[Jeffrey]

FWIW, my crystal ball...

Robots and AI are going to replace 30% of all U.S. jobs within the next 20 years. For the most part, those will be the lowest paying positions. Hopefully, a universal income will cover the many unemployed.

Higher and practical education is mandatory. IMO, almost all U.S. high school dropouts will not be able to find work 20 years from now. Making yourself irreplaceable becomes even more critical. People with great knowledge, ideas, creativity, innovation, and management skills will be extremely well rewarded! If I were under 40, I would not make current pay my highest priority. Gain the knowledge & skills and the pay will follow.

[Turk]

I work in the pharmaceutical manufacturing industry. I left my old company about 6 months ago for a slightly better position at one of our customer's sites. To get this job, I asked for a letter of recommendation from a former manager of mine, who is now a senior manager at the new company I was applying for. He went out of his way to make sure I got the job.

The only thing I would care about damaging in the new company would be my personal relationship with the senior manager who went to bat for me. If I decided to take the offer, I would seek out the manager for a 1-on-1 and tell him the story and express my gratitude and as much of the details of the "godfather" offer as would be appropriate.

As for reasons for leaving, I always go with the standard breakup "it's not you, it's me" line. No reason to take anything other than the high road. I would also suggest that leaving after 6 months isn't that big a deal - you really haven't had time to form new relationships. You're not gonna make them lonesome when you go... YMMV.

[left_hook_lacey]

Is the rank being offered 15% over your current rank?

You said your former manager wrote a glowing recommendation. Did they decline to match your current salary because they couldn’t pay that for your former position and then suddenly the current position came open?

How much of a benefit will the higher level technologies you have been exposed to be to your old company? Did you sign a non-disclosure agreement? Will that become an issue? Did you sign a non-compete agreement that they could argue is in play?

I think I confused you, unintentionally.

I had a manager at my previous job, he left for greener pastures before I did. It just so happens, a few months later, I ended up leaving for the same company that he did. We are both here now at said new company. He is a senior manager here, and wrote me the recommendation to get me in the door, which is why I was having reservations about leaving. I didn't know how it would hurt our relationship given such a short stay here for me.

Now, my former employer is offering me to go back there in a higher-level position than before I left.

The higher level technology would be of little value at the form employer from a performance stand point, other than the fact that my current employer is a customer of the old employer. My former employer loves to have people on staff that can speak to those technologies during FDA audits, or customer(which would be the company I work for now) audits.

There is no non-compete agreement or non-disclosure agreement.

[BigWayne]

If you like working where you are now and are willing to keep doing the commute, I would go talk to the senior manager that recommended you before you go back for the job interview at the old company, assuming you feel this is a person you can trust. They may be aware of ways to improve your position in your current company that are not publicly known.

If you really want to go back to the old employer, then just try to negotiate the best deal you can get out of them. Go into that negotiation with the position that you are not unhappy where you are now, but are willing to come back if their offer is attractive enough.

The one thing I would not do is try to be too sneaky about anything. Given that the one company is a customer of the other, there are probably lots of communication paths between the two.