Progress Towards Graduation - Should We Care?

[CDu]

Dunleavy, Jwill and Boozer were part of the first recruiting class that enrolled in courses the same summer as their high school graduation. This allowed them, if they continued to take courses during subsequent summers, to complete 4 years worth of courses in 3 years. Jwill enrolled at Duke the summer of 1999 and graduated in 2002. I assume Dunleavy, who was a very good student, followed a similar path.

Nope. Dunleavy finished up in 2005.

[CrazyNotCrazie]

Dunleavy, Jwill and Boozer were part of the first recruiting class that enrolled in courses the same summer as their high school graduation. This allowed them, if they continued to take courses during subsequent summers, to complete 4 years worth of courses in 3 years. Jwill enrolled at Duke the summer of 1999 and graduated in 2002. I assume Dunleavy, who was a very good student, followed a similar path.

If I recall, JWill's plan from day one was to graduate in three years. Dunleavy didn't come in planning to leave early and I believe had to be talked into it when it became clear that he would be drafted very early. For many of the players, taking the classes before freshman year is more to allow them to a) acclimate to college and b) take a lighter load during the year than to help them graduate early.

I thought Grayson set things up to graduate in 3 so I'm not sure if he is now in grad school or just taking a light load.

[SupaDave]

If I recall, JWill's plan from day one was to graduate in three years. Dunleavy didn't come in planning to leave early and I believe had to be talked into it when it became clear that he would be drafted very early. For many of the players, taking the classes before freshman year is more to allow them to a) acclimate to college and b) take a lighter load during the year than to help them graduate early.

I thought Grayson set things up to graduate in 3 so I'm not sure if he is now in grad school or just taking a light load.

Grayson is a grad student indeed.

And yep - K developed the 3 year plan long ago. Not many have needed it (players like Hood and Grayson are the recent exception) - but it still laid the blueprint for getting proper course loads to players who may only be in town for one year.

[Bluedog]

Yes, although I believe Kyrie has two years' worth of credits, or close to it. He entered Duke with a semester's worth of AP credits (can't source this but know it was widely reported at the time--"good basketball player is actually smart" stories, like the extensive coverage of recruits like Wendell Carter and Mo Bamba considering Harvard), and he came back to Duke for the first semester after the draft because of the basketball strike. So he could manage it eventually.

Duke (Trinity) caps the number of AP credits a student can count towards the required 34 credits at a whopping TWO for those that graduate in 8 semesters. Otherwise, a huge percentage of Duke students would graduate early as many come with a ton of AP credits. (They do allow for slightly more those looking to graduate faster...) So, Kyrie may have had AP coursework, but it can only take the place of 2 classes.

On the larger issue, I somewhat care, but realize it's simply based on the circumstances and don't begrudge them. It's also such a tiny percentage of the athlete population that you can't cater a system to those few exceptions. The vast vast vast majority of student athletes in college (and at Duke) will not go pro in one year and that's the case even in basketball. But certainly it ain't like it used to be for Duke basketball as the landscape for highly touted recruits has simply changed.

[cascadedevil]

Excellent points by many. Interesting to see how other members of the Duke family feel about this. The posts have helped me clarify my own thoughts about this, and it appears that not many agree with me (which may be that I am still holding on to the 1980s too much).

- For the past 30 years Duke basketball has been tightly connected to the overall image and marketing of the school.
- Part of that image was fed by Dick Vitale comments about the SAT scores of the Cameron Crazies, and comments by Jay Bilas that his GPA was higher than his scoring average. A focus on academics was always part of what made Duke Basketball "special". The idea being that the players were not just entertainers for the students, but also young people who were interested in the intellectual engagement offered by the school (Christian Laettner's comments about the UNLV - Duke image presentation in the media not withstanding).
- I do not begrudge any athlete for going pro as quickly as they can, just as I do not hold it against any computer science major who can leave to start a billion dollar company.
- However, I do have reservations about what it does to the "specialness" of Duke when we recruit players who increasingly are not interested in ever getting a degree. Coach K can make them attend some classes for the year. Maybe they even want to do that. But is that really what the academic experience at Duke is intended for? Are we really now just focusing on "compliance" instead of the spirit of what Duke has been about.
- The possibility of Duke degrees have been incredibly important to many of the elite basketball recruits we have had (Elton Brand, Jason Williams, Shane Battier, Mike Dunleavy, Gerald Henderson, Kyrie Irving, Jahill Okafor), even those who may not be actively pursuing that option now.
- However, it feels like something has changed in the past few years. It now seems that increasingly our elite recruits do not talk about the desire to get a degree, but instead just to "enjoy" the 1 year they will stay in Durham. That is a big change. I love watching these elite players on the court, and they uniformly seem like fantastic young people to me. They may actually want to get degrees and just do not talk about it. But that change is impacting Duke's image. It may be a change most Duke fans are ok with, but it is one I wish we could reverse. I still want Duke to be that special place where true student athletes compete at the highest levels against programs who do not hold themselves to the same standards. It makes the winning so much sweeter.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Excellent points by many. Interesting to see how other members of the Duke family feel about this. The posts have helped me clarify my own thoughts about this, and it appears that not many agree with me (which may be that I am still holding on to the 1980s too much).

- For the past 30 years Duke basketball has been tightly connected to the overall image and marketing of the school.
- Part of that image was fed by Dick Vitale comments about the SAT scores of the Cameron Crazies, and comments by Jay Bilas that his GPA was higher than his scoring average. A focus on academics was always part of what made Duke Basketball "special". The idea being that the players were not just entertainers for the students, but also young people who were interested in the intellectual engagement offered by the school (Christian Laettner's comments about the UNLV - Duke image presentation in the media not withstanding).
- I do not begrudge any athlete for going pro as quickly as they can, just as I do not hold it against any computer science major who can leave to start a billion dollar company.
- However, I do have reservations about what it does to the "specialness" of Duke when we recruit players who increasingly are not interested in ever getting a degree. Coach K can make them attend some classes for the year. Maybe they even want to do that. But is that really what the academic experience at Duke is intended for? Are we really now just focusing on "compliance" instead of the spirit of what Duke has been about.
- The possibility of Duke degrees have been incredibly important to many of the elite basketball recruits we have had (Elton Brand, Jason Williams, Shane Battier, Mike Dunleavy, Gerald Henderson, Kyrie Irving, Jahill Okafor), even those who may not be actively pursuing that option now.
- However, it feels like something has changed in the past few years. It now seems that increasingly our elite recruits do not talk about the desire to get a degree, but instead just to "enjoy" the 1 year they will stay in Durham. That is a big change. I love watching these elite players on the court, and they uniformly seem like fantastic young people to me. They may actually want to get degrees and just do not talk about it. But that change is impacting Duke's image. It may be a change most Duke fans are ok with, but it is one I wish we could reverse. I still want Duke to be that special place where true student athletes compete at the highest levels against programs who do not hold themselves to the same standards. It makes the winning so much sweeter.

I do not disagree with anything you have said with the exception of the last point. I don't think it's fair to say that Duval, Bagley, and Trent haven't expressed interest in the academics because they haven't publicly said so (and, for the record, Carter has. The dude was deciding between Duke and Harvard). I don't think anything has changed in the last few years with regards to our recruits other than we get more of them.

But I will say this: academics at Duke aren't as big of a pulling factor for OADs compared to the 4-year recruits. Why Duke is getting OADs, IMO, has little to do with academics and more to do with facilities, NBA effectiveness, and our incredible coaching staff. Where this will hurt Duke basketball is when that incredible coaching staff retires.

I have come to accept that Duke is a stepping stone for the NBA for a ton of OADs. I don't mind it as long as the players go to class and carry themselves well. The reason is that Duke is able to get more money, potentially better non-athlete academic students (who want a university that excels at academics and sports), and more exposure. I love that.

[Kfanarmy]

I would love this. I think it's a great idea. But it also signals that basketball student athletes are here because it's a stepping stone to the NBA. Also, creating a class just for athletes sounds awfully UNC-ish...

You have a point, but done well, I think it could be a better alternative than most frosh required basic math classes...for all of the student population.