Alex O'connell/Grayson Allen

[dukeinla]

Has anyone noticed the similarity to the career arcs of Alex and Grayson? They both committed early as high school seniors and were not the highest recruited members of their class. When Grayson was a freshman he rarely played and when he did play he played with enthusiasm and panache. Late in the season he had a breakout game (I believe it was against Wake) but still was not the star of the team (until his great play against Wisconsin in the NCAA tournament). Alex's play so far has also been with enthusiasm and panache and is making the most of his minutes. Let's hope he continues to improve and plays a big role going forward this season

[BandAlum83]

Has anyone noticed the similarity to the career arcs of Alex and Grayson? They both committed early as high school seniors and were not the highest recruited members of their class. When Grayson was a freshman he rarely played and when he did play he played with enthusiasm and panache. Late in the season he had a breakout game (I believe it was against Wake) but still was not the star of the team (until his great play against Wisconsin in the NCAA tournament). Alex's play so far has also been with enthusiasm and panache and is making the most of his minutes. Let's hope he continues to improve and plays a big role going forward this season

I have been thinking similarly, but will wait for a few more months to publicly admit it or predict an energetic boost for 16 points in the Title game to help us win it!

[Billy Dat]

Considering that we are 5 games into Alex's career, I'm not sure we can call it an arc.

I hope that they are alike in that he comes off the bench to lead us to victory during this season's national championship.

I hope they are different in that he doesn't become the most hated player in the game for tripping people.

[proelitedota]

Alex's game remind me more of Luke Kennard's, more finesse than power.

[jimsumner]

It should be noted that Allen and Kennard were both much more highly-regarded than O'Connell coming out of high school.

I don't see O'Connell being first-team All-ACC and second-team All-America as a sophomore, as were Allen and Kennard.

And he'll be contending with Reddish and Barrett for PT next season.

He should be a solid four-year contributor and could well be a starter somewhere down the road.

[gam7]

Considering that we are 5 games into Alex's career, I'm not sure we can call it an arc.

Kyrie agrees with you. He thinks Alex's career arc is flat.

[Skitzle]

There was one thing I CLEARLY remember about Allen.

His freshman year after rasheed got booted, he kept getting 8-10 min a game, and each outing was better than the last. JasonEvans noted this on the pod as well. Then... well he got the shining moment award. We're only 5 games in but... if O'Connell keeps improving every game, i'll match the arcs.

[DukieInBrasil]

Alex's game remind me more of Luke Kennard's, more finesse than power.

not to my eyes. although Alex handles the ball pretty well and seems a pretty heady passer, he seems to be always right on the edge of out of control and then ends up making a valuable play. He seems more explosive athletically than Kennard, and it's a bit early to say anything about his shooting. Kennard had an amazing array of shots, angles, and moves to use angles to get shots, of which i have seen next to nothing from Alex to suggest that he has that sort of craft in his game. Alex is shooting the ball pretty well so far, and Kennard also has surprisingly good hops for a guy who plays such an old-man game, but i don't think their games are particularly similar. I would say Alex's game is somewhere between the reckless abandon that Grayson played with as a Fr. and Luke's restrained finesse game, with Alex leaning a bit more towards Grayson.
Those 2 dudes are pretty lofty comparisons, iyam, and if Alex comes close to their production as a So. (both Grayson and Luke averaged ~20ppg as So.) i will be thrilled.

[jimsumner]

Well, Jordan Goldwire is the next Frank Mason. So, he should be able to feed O'Connell/Allen-Kennard.

After Vrankovic/Zoubek controls the boards.

And don't forget DeLaurier. I can't remember which over-the-top-comparison we're currently making for Javin, but he does look a little like Durant, so we might as well go with that.

[MrPoon]

All I know is even the mention of another GA freshman year makes Wake fans super nervous,
I can hear the chants, “Alex is beating Wake”!

[ikiru36]

not to my eyes. although Alex handles the ball pretty well and seems a pretty heady passer, he seems to be always right on the edge of out of control and then ends up making a valuable play. He seems more explosive athletically than Kennard, and it's a bit early to say anything about his shooting. Kennard had an amazing array of shots, angles, and moves to use angles to get shots, of which i have seen next to nothing from Alex to suggest that he has that sort of craft in his game. Alex is shooting the ball pretty well so far, and Kennard also has surprisingly good hops for a guy who plays such an old-man game, but i don't think their games are particularly similar. I would say Alex's game is somewhere between the reckless abandon that Grayson played with as a Fr. and Luke's restrained finesse game, with Alex leaning a bit more towards Grayson.
Those 2 dudes are pretty lofty comparisons, iyam, and if Alex comes close to their production as a So. (both Grayson and Luke averaged ~20ppg as So.) i will be thrilled.

I have had the Grayson thought, though the player he has reminded me most of is more Mike Dunleavy. Some of it is the lankiness, and I think they both had late growth spurts making them look a bit gangly as Freshmen. But both had fairly mature offensive games clearly as guards, while truly sized more as small forwards. Of course, Dunleavy was (much) more highly touted as one of the big 3 in a top notch 7 member Freshman class, and he was a heavily used 6th man. But Alex has really impressed me, such that on a less deep Duke team I feel like he'd be justifying himself as a pretty electric 6th man. The other player I'll throw out there who was not quite as wiry or tall, but still similar build and game is Billy McCaffrey. And other facets of his game, besides shooting, seem beyond what a good freshman McCaffrey brought to the team.

Keep it up Alex, Go Blue Devils and ever GTHCGTH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[curtis325]

Alex's game remind me more of Luke Kennard's, more finesse than power.

Alex need to work on his hair-fidgeting then maybe he can challenge Kennard.

[jimsumner]

I have had the Grayson thought, though the player he has reminded me most of is more Mike Dunleavy. Some of it is the lankiness, and I think they both had late growth spurts making them look a bit gangly as Freshmen. But both had fairly mature offensive games clearly as guards, while truly sized more as small forwards. Of course, Dunleavy was (much) more highly touted as one of the big 3 in a top notch 7 member Freshman class, and he was a heavily used 6th man. But Alex has really impressed me, such that on a less deep Duke team I feel like he'd be justifying himself as a pretty electric 6th man. The other player I'll throw out there who was not quite as wiry or tall, but still similar build and game is Billy McCaffrey. And other facets of his game, besides shooting, seem beyond what a good freshman McCaffrey brought to the team.

Keep it up Alex, Go Blue Devils and ever GTHCGTH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Dunleavy was actually the fourth-ranked Duke recruit in his class, behind Jason Williams, Carlos Boozer and Casey Sanders. But he was still a top-30 recruit.

It's hard to come up with a recent Duke player ranked about where O'Connell was ranked who became more than a complementary player. Perhaps Miles and Marshall Plumlee but both are seven-footers and the human-gene pool produces a lot more 6-6 men than 7-0 men.

Besides, once Justin Robinson has that late growth spurt and turns into his father, there won't be any room for O'Connell.

But back in the old days (before the RSCII), guys like David Henderson, John Smith, Brian Davis, Thomas Hill and Robert Brickey would have been ranked about where O'Connell is or lower. But that before one-and-dones, so the career arc was different. So, who knows?

[SilkyJ]

It's hard to come up with a recent Duke player ranked about where O'Connell was ranked who became more than a complementary player. Perhaps Miles and Marshall Plumlee but both are seven-footers and the human-gene pool produces a lot more 6-6 men than 7-0 men.

Agree with Jim, but to my eye it looks like Alex may have been improperly rated. Pretty rare to see a freshman rated #70, who is definitely underweight and not ready for the physicality of the college game, earn the type of PT he has. Now part of that is that A) its early, and B) he's the only SG we can bring off the bench. Comparing him to Grayson/Kennard (as the OP in the thread did) is a ridiculous reach, but it seems like he may have more game than the recruiting services gave him credit for.

My guess is he becomes a starter over the course of his career. My guess is that he plays at least 15mpg next year, if not more, coming off the bench and assumes a more serious role as his body develops.

[mgtr]

Interesting thread. My first thought on O'Connell after the Elon game was that he was like Luke Kennard. Then, maybe a week or so ago in another thread, somebody made the comparison to Mike Dunleavy. Bingo, I believe that is a much better comparison. I hope Alex has the same ceiling as Dunleavy -- that would by fabulous!

[DukieInBrasil]

Agree with Jim, but to my eye it looks like Alex may have been improperly rated. Pretty rare to see a freshman rated #70, who is definitely underweight and not ready for the physicality of the college game, earn the type of PT he has. Now part of that is that A) its early, and B) he's the only SG we can bring off the bench. Comparing him to Grayson/Kennard (as the OP in the thread did) is a ridiculous reach, but it seems like he may have more game than the recruiting services gave him credit for.

My guess is he becomes a starter over the course of his career. My guess is that he plays at least 15mpg next year, if not more, coming off the bench and assumes a more serious role as his body develops.

Duke also has Jordan Tucker on the bench. He may be more of a SF, but he has a reputation as a good shooter. He hasn't gotten much run in exhibitions or in the real games yet, so it's hard to say if he's a good comparison.

[FerryFor50]

Interesting thread. My first thought on O'Connell after the Elon game was that he was like Luke Kennard. Then, maybe a week or so ago in another thread, somebody made the comparison to Mike Dunleavy. Bingo, I believe that is a much better comparison. I hope Alex has the same ceiling as Dunleavy -- that would by fabulous!

Well, Dunleavy was 6'9". And slower. And a better shooter (albeit, O'Connell has had a small sample size). Honestly, I don't think O'Connell ever gets to Dunleavy's status.

Kennard is a pretty decent comp, as they both seem to be natural scorers. But Alex seems faster than Luke was.

[Ultrarunner]

Well, Dunleavy was 6'9". And slower. And a better shooter (albeit, O'Connell has had a small sample size). Honestly, I don't think O'Connell ever gets to Dunleavy's status.

Kennard is a pretty decent comp, as they both seem to be natural scorers. But Alex seems faster than Luke was.

On the defensive end, especially, but that might be attributed to effort.

[slower]

Comparing him to Grayson/Kennard (as the OP in the thread did) is a ridiculous reach.

Um...yep.

[cato]

Hey guys!

Do you remember when Luke passed Lebron for the Ohio state scoring title? Do you remember when G took charge of a title game with a flurry of three point shots/daggers, dunks and steals? Do you remember when Mike D hit three straight threes against Arizona?

Just curious.