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  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffrey View Post
    No doubt, it's not just Wells Fargo.

    However, in the case of Wells Fargo, society could make certain Wells Fargo never harms another society member by merely closing all their Wells Fargo accounts. IMO, society is part of the problem!
    AMEN! This has annoyed me to no end that retail customers still do business with these slimeballs.

  2. #82
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    North of Durham
    Quote Originally Posted by PackMan97 View Post
    AMEN! This has annoyed me to no end that retail customers still do business with these slimeballs.
    I think this is a bit extreme. What happened at Wells Fargo was definitely wrong. But it only happened to a subset of overall customers - most people were not impacted. I can guarantee you that Wells Fargo is not the only one doing this - it was probably the most widespread, but I'm sure it also happens elsewhere.

    Retail banking accounts are getting increasingly "sticky" - once you have one, it is a real pain to shift it. This is why banks spend so much time, effort and money trying to attract your business. Do you really want to spend the time to shift all of your direct deposits, auto bill pays, etc.? So unless they were personally harmed, people are not going to shift their accounts. I have not recently seen the stats on new accounts opened in the year since this became public - I am guessing they are down significantly.

  3. #83
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Vermont
    Quote Originally Posted by CrazyNotCrazie View Post
    I think this is a bit extreme. What happened at Wells Fargo was definitely wrong. But it only happened to a subset of overall customers - most people were not impacted. I can guarantee you that Wells Fargo is not the only one doing this - it was probably the most widespread, but I'm sure it also happens elsewhere.

    Retail banking accounts are getting increasingly "sticky" - once you have one, it is a real pain to shift it. This is why banks spend so much time, effort and money trying to attract your business. Do you really want to spend the time to shift all of your direct deposits, auto bill pays, etc.? So unless they were personally harmed, people are not going to shift their accounts. I have not recently seen the stats on new accounts opened in the year since this became public - I am guessing they are down significantly.
    I do think Wells Fargo went a whole lot farther than a lot of other miscreant banks...a good friend (who looks at this board) owns a nice business, and amazingly Wells Fargo (his business's bank) extracted thousands of dollars from an
    account for an unwanted, unnecessary service before the scheme became apparent. Pretty appalling way to deal with a long time business client. The subset of people they screwed was a pretty large subset.

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by CrazyNotCrazie View Post
    I think this is a bit extreme. What happened at Wells Fargo was definitely wrong. But it only happened to a subset of overall customers - most people were not impacted. I can guarantee you that Wells Fargo is not the only one doing this - it was probably the most widespread, but I'm sure it also happens elsewhere.

    Retail banking accounts are getting increasingly "sticky" - once you have one, it is a real pain to shift it. This is why banks spend so much time, effort and money trying to attract your business. Do you really want to spend the time to shift all of your direct deposits, auto bill pays, etc.? So unless they were personally harmed, people are not going to shift their accounts. I have not recently seen the stats on new accounts opened in the year since this became public - I am guessing they are down significantly.
    This is sounding too close to what a UNC apologist would say defending the actions of their athletic department. (No offense to you).

  5. #85
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Ashburn, VA
    Quote Originally Posted by CrazyNotCrazie View Post
    I think this is a bit extreme. What happened at Wells Fargo was definitely wrong. But it only happened to a subset of overall customers - most people were not impacted. I can guarantee you that Wells Fargo is not the only one doing this - it was probably the most widespread, but I'm sure it also happens elsewhere.

    Retail banking accounts are getting increasingly "sticky" - once you have one, it is a real pain to shift it. This is why banks spend so much time, effort and money trying to attract your business. Do you really want to spend the time to shift all of your direct deposits, auto bill pays, etc.? So unless they were personally harmed, people are not going to shift their accounts. I have not recently seen the stats on new accounts opened in the year since this became public - I am guessing they are down significantly.
    Yup, I'm still with WF, not because I particularly like them more than others, but because it would be an enormous burden at this point to try to switch. And I've told them such.

    I only use them for a checking account, but everything flows through there. The number of accounts (or similar) I have that are linked up via ACH is quite large. Plus, I've had my account and routing numbers memorized for 15 years now, which comes in handy.
    A text without a context is a pretext.

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by CrazyNotCrazie View Post
    I can guarantee you that Wells Fargo is not the only one doing this - it was probably the most widespread, but I'm sure it also happens elsewhere.
    Probably the most widespread? What other U.S. financial institution has created millions of fake bank and credit card accounts? At what other U.S. financial institution are you "sure it also happens"?

    "Wells Fargo (WFC) now says it has found a total of up to 3.5 million potentially fake bank and credit card accounts, up from its earlier tally of approximately 2.1 million. In other words, there are two-thirds more fake accounts than previously realized."

    http://money.cnn.com/2017/08/31/inve...nts/index.html

  7. #87
    Whoops...

    http://money.cnn.com/2017/07/28/inve...hp-toplead-dom

    "New York City Comptroller Scott Stringer, who helped lead an unsuccessful campaign to unseat Wells Fargo directors, said the latest revelation shows that the board needs to be overhauled.
    "This is a full-blown scandal -- again. It's unbelievable, outrageous, sad, and yet quintessential Wells Fargo," Stringer said in a statement. Stringer manages the city's pension funds, which held about 11.5 million Wells Fargo shares as of April."

  8. #88
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Inman, SC & Fort Myers, FL
    There have been mentions of freezing your credit accounts. I have had this in place for some years now, and find it effective. It would be a pain if you plan to get many loans or open many credit accounts. As an old guy, I don't really need to borrow money, so it works for me. Every few years I test the system by applying for credit -- all such attempts have been turned down by the credit reporting agencies. So, I am happy.
    This message was composed entirely from recycled letters of the alphabet using only renewable, caffeinated energy sources.
    No trees, wabbits, chimps or whales died in the process.

  9. #89
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    North of Durham
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffrey View Post
    Whoops...

    http://money.cnn.com/2017/07/28/inve...hp-toplead-dom

    "New York City Comptroller Scott Stringer, who helped lead an unsuccessful campaign to unseat Wells Fargo directors, said the latest revelation shows that the board needs to be overhauled.
    "This is a full-blown scandal -- again. It's unbelievable, outrageous, sad, and yet quintessential Wells Fargo," Stringer said in a statement. Stringer manages the city's pension funds, which held about 11.5 million Wells Fargo shares as of April."
    Are you shorting WF stock? Big, bad banks make a very easy target for politicians to target. Again, I am not denying that Wells did something bad - they clearly did. And their offenses are likely more egregious than any other banks to date. And I could easily argue that this is symptomatic of banks becoming too big. I have spent most of my career working at mega-banks where the behavior of someone on the far side of the earth creates negative headlines and hurts my line of business - it is very frustrating. But they definitely are not alone.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/0...n_7842072.html

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/busin...=.a14d596ed3ab

  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by CrazyNotCrazie View Post
    Are you shorting WF stock?
    No, I'm definitely not shorting WFC. I actually almost bought a sizable long position today. You're right, few Americans will bother to close their Wells Fargo accounts. I frequently wager against Americans making prudent financial decisions.

    However, IMO, Wells is definitely the current bottom of the barrel. Opening approximately 3,500,000 fake accounts far exceeds their competition! That's why, IMO, shorting now is a bad call and going long is a definite consideration. How much more bad news can there be and, even if there is, who cares anymore? IMO, Americans are comfortably numb and too lazy to cause Wells serious harm.

  11. #91
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Greenville, SC
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffrey View Post
    No, I'm definitely not shorting WFC. I actually almost bought a sizable long position today. You're right, few Americans will bother to close their Wells Fargo accounts. I frequently wager against Americans making prudent financial decisions.

    However, IMO, Wells is definitely the current bottom of the barrel. Opening approximately 3,500,000 fake accounts far exceeds their competition! That's why, IMO, shorting now is a bad call and going long is a definite consideration. How much more bad news can there be and, even if there is, who cares anymore? IMO, Americans are comfortably numb and too lazy to cause Wells serious harm.
    Not that I'm considering closing a WF account, but if WF is the bottom of the barrel is there a bank with branches in the Carolinas might be considered near the top of the barrel?

  12. #92
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by camion View Post
    Not that I'm considering closing a WF account, but if WF is the bottom of the barrel is there a bank with branches in the Carolinas might be considered near the top of the barrel?
    State Employees' Credit Union, if you are eligible. We switched from WF when my better half took a position in IT at SECU, and the only way to get direct deposit was to have an account with them. We've saved a lot of money on nickle and dime fees and find the whole experience much better.

    We helped our son get an account at Wells Fargo when he attended Wake Forest, as that was the only ATM on campus, and we knew he'd chew up lots of ATM fees with a non-Wells Fargo account. After a while, we determined he needed his own credit card and tried to get him a card with a $400 limit. He was turned down because OUR credit as co-signers was suspect; they wouldn't answer any questions about why, which left us stunned because both our credit and our son's is really good. At the time, we were about two years into an HVAC financing through them. Needing only $6500 to pay for the unit, they gave us a $10,000 line of credit. Given that we weren't using $4000 of that (and had no way of using it, it wasn't like it was a credit card), couldn't they use that to secure the $400 card? Could we pre-pay the $400? Nope. It was an incredibly unpleasant experience. We asked SECU, and they had no problem giving our son $1000 limit without question, and were extremely pleasant and helpful. (Fortunately, our son is a really good money manager and the extra limit wasn't a temptation for him.)

    As soon as he moved off campus and had access to other ATMs, we got rid of the Wells Fargo account. Another difficult and unpleasant experience. To be fair, I will say that when I had to close my mom's Wells Fargo accounts after her death, the particular branch where she banked was extremely helpful and pleasant. She still did a lot of banking in person and had been at that branch for 41 years.

  13. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by camion View Post
    Not that I'm considering closing a WF account, but if WF is the bottom of the barrel is there a bank with branches in the Carolinas might be considered near the top of the barrel?

    We're BBT up in VA but, of course, it's an NC based bank. They stink too, but they might not stink as bad as WF. How's that for praise?
    Nothing incites bodily violence quicker than a Duke fan turning in your direction and saying 'scoreboard.'

  14. #94
    Possibly the worst thing in this whole issue has been Equifax's response. This article mirrors my experience:

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.778577aef8d0

    It's been well over a week and I still have not received my identity theft protection enrollment link via email. This is after jumping through a half dozen hoops immediately when the news broke.

    Their call center is worthless, and the agents openly admit they have no idea about the process, how it works, when the links will be sent, if any have been sent, if there is a way to resend them, etc. etc. It is amazingly pathetic.

  15. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by devil84 View Post
    State Employees' Credit Union, if you are eligible. We switched from WF when my better half took a position in IT at SECU, and the only way to get direct deposit was to have an account with them. We've saved a lot of money on nickle and dime fees and find the whole experience much better.

    We helped our son get an account at Wells Fargo when he attended Wake Forest, as that was the only ATM on campus, and we knew he'd chew up lots of ATM fees with a non-Wells Fargo account. After a while, we determined he needed his own credit card and tried to get him a card with a $400 limit. He was turned down because OUR credit as co-signers was suspect; they wouldn't answer any questions about why, which left us stunned because both our credit and our son's is really good. At the time, we were about two years into an HVAC financing through them. Needing only $6500 to pay for the unit, they gave us a $10,000 line of credit. Given that we weren't using $4000 of that (and had no way of using it, it wasn't like it was a credit card), couldn't they use that to secure the $400 card? Could we pre-pay the $400? Nope. It was an incredibly unpleasant experience. We asked SECU, and they had no problem giving our son $1000 limit without question, and were extremely pleasant and helpful. (Fortunately, our son is a really good money manager and the extra limit wasn't a temptation for him.)

    As soon as he moved off campus and had access to other ATMs, we got rid of the Wells Fargo account. Another difficult and unpleasant experience. To be fair, I will say that when I had to close my mom's Wells Fargo accounts after her death, the particular branch where she banked was extremely helpful and pleasant. She still did a lot of banking in person and had been at that branch for 41 years.
    Been with NCSECU for many years. Use it for bill pay. I haven't been in a branch in over ten years. I do it all via Internet and an occasional USPS item. Their bill pay system is flawless and they have a large electronic pay network.

    I also use USAA and, locally, maintain a TD Bank account for check cashing And ATM access. I do most banking over the net now.

  16. #96
    I use WF for my business and personal accounts. Yes, corporate wide they have done some sketch ball things. But the people in my local branch are great, their customer service with Merchant Services is fantastic, and they address my concerns very quickly.

    I have tried smaller banks in the past with lots of frustration. This was ten plus years ago, but their online services we're very limited. Also, twice I had a small bank get gobbled up by a big one.

    WF is the devil I know, so to speak. I don't defend their practices at all, but my experiences have been very positive.

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by devil84 View Post
    State Employees' Credit Union, if you are eligible.
    BINGO! A financial institution's morals, ethics, and integrity are driven by the CEO and Board of Directors. SECU's long-time CEO (recently retired), Jim Blaine, is one of the true good guys! Jim was always focused on doing the right thing and never focused on his personal financial gain.

  18. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by camion View Post
    Not that I'm considering closing a WF account, but if WF is the bottom of the barrel is there a bank with branches in the Carolinas might be considered near the top of the barrel?
    As mentioned already, NCSECU is top notch.

    We did our construction loan on our new house for them and they were super easy to work with and one of the few folks that allowed for a construction loan to convert to a mortgage without needing an additional refi. We also do most of our banking with them and while their web interface reminds me of something from the late 90's...it works fantastic and we've never had an issue with it. They have branches everywhere (since state employees are across the state...public schools!). In addition their ATM network is CASHPOINTS which are also all over the place. Of course, membership is an issue.

    Coastal Federal is also very good with not quite as restrictive membership rules.

  19. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by PackMan97 View Post
    Coastal Federal is also very good with not quite as restrictive membership rules.
    IMO, Coastal is substantially better than Wells, and SECU is better than Coastal.

    Coastal's fees are substantial. Coastal's fee ratio (fees/assets) is 1.44% and SECU's is 0.66%. Compare those to the peer average of 1.38%.

    Trying to compare those to Wells is apples and oranges. I could not state it as simply.

  20. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by Reisen View Post
    Possibly the worst thing in this whole issue has been Equifax's response. This article mirrors my experience:

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.778577aef8d0

    It's been well over a week and I still have not received my identity theft protection enrollment link via email. This is after jumping through a half dozen hoops immediately when the news broke.

    Their call center is worthless, and the agents openly admit they have no idea about the process, how it works, when the links will be sent, if any have been sent, if there is a way to resend them, etc. etc. It is amazingly pathetic.
    Be careful what you wish for....

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/...ite/688188001/

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