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  1. #1821
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    North of Durham
    Or the Davidson brothers?

  2. #1822
    I love how this thread inevitably devolves into a discussion of minutes, how much longer Coach K has left on the bench, who will be the next head coach, offensive and defensive identify, and then just a string of puns.

    At any rate, the AD is going to have an ample mix of top-tier candidates from which to choose when the time comes. Capel, Wojo, Collins, Hurley, Scheyer, et al are all going to have a compelling case to make. As it relates to recruiting, I have long admired how Purdue handled the retirement of Gene Keady. When the old coach announced his retirement, they re-hired Matt Painter as as Associate Head Coach and allowed him to recruit his first class so that he would be coaching some of his own kids when he took over. If I recall correctly, that was the Robbie Hummel, E'Twaun Moore, and JaJuan Johnson class that put Purdue back in the Top 25 for several years and has helped to cement Purdue as a perennial contender in the B1G.

    I would love to see an announcement in a few summers that 2022 or whatever is going to be Coach K's last year and then they identify the next coach, who leads the recruitment efforts that year while Coach K focuses on his final year as Head Coach. Duke wins its 7th or 8th National Championship under Coach K and begins the new era with a full head of steam.

  3. #1823
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Washington, D.C.

    Please

    Quote Originally Posted by lotusland View Post
    Or Chris Collins and his Dad
    Having watched Doug here in DC, please no.

  4. #1824
    Quote Originally Posted by Steven43 View Post
    But seriously, though, I think Capel owes Duke University and Coach K a much bigger debt of gratitude than they owe him.
    My guess is that Capel agrees with you on this.

  5. #1825
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by Steven43 View Post

    I seriously doubt the true reason ANY of those guys came to Duke was because they had on staff a relatively average former college basketball player who was fired from his job at Oklahoma after only a handful of seasons.
    "Relatively average" players don't score 1600 points at Duke.

    Capel was the best salesman on the assistant-coach roster.

    Yes, he was selling a great product. But he was very good at it.

    After he left, other salesmen had to up their games.

    Which they appear to have done.

    Which doesn't diminish the value that Capel brought to the program.

  6. #1826
    Quote Originally Posted by jimsumner View Post
    "Relatively average" players don't score 1600 points at Duke.

    Capel was the best salesman on the assistant-coach roster.

    Yes, he was selling a great product. But he was very good at it.

    After he left, other salesmen had to up their games.

    Which they appear to have done.

    Which doesn't diminish the value that Capel brought to the program.
    First of all, I meant relatively average for a Duke player. And the “relatively” part does allow for some wiggle room. The point was that Capel as an assistant at Duke wasn’t a selling point like, say, Memphis has with Penny Hardaway. None of these guys had ever heard of Jeff Capel as a basketball player. You seem to be parsing my words to try to score points, Jim. I think you had a pretty good idea of what I meant.

    As for Capel being very good at selling the super elite brand that is Duke University, Duke Basketballl, and Coach K, well, okay great. I’d like a crack at that job. I would work for a third of what Jeff got. Of course, I’m joking here. I just happen to think if you work hard it’s close to being a ‘can’t fail’ sort of job. And I disagree with a previous poster saying it is on the same level as being an assistant at Michigan State, or Kansas, or any of the others. No, I think Duke at this time in history is above them all and clearly so.

  7. #1827
    Quote Originally Posted by jimsumner View Post
    " Capel was the best salesman on the assistant-coach roster.

    Yes, he was selling a great product. But he was very good at it.

    After he left, other salesmen had to up their games.

    Which they appear to have done.

    Which doesn't diminish the value that Capel brought to the program.
    Agree with this assessment 100%. And it's not like any organization...some people can't grow until room opens up for them. I get the idea that Scheyer and Nate are even more important now, in recruiting and other areas. And of course Nolan and C-Well will likely be awesome!

  8. #1828
    Quote Originally Posted by HereBeforeCoachK View Post
    And it's not like any organization...some people can't grow until room opens up for them.
    Indeed. The coaches who have grown up under K are just as impressive as the players. Starting with JD in both cases.

    It is what keeps me invested in Duke MBB.

  9. #1829
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by Steven43 View Post
    First of all, I meant relatively average for a Duke player. And the “relatively” part does allow for some wiggle room. The point was that Capel as an assistant at Duke wasn’t a selling point like, say, Memphis has with Penny Hardaway. None of these guys had ever heard of Jeff Capel as a basketball player. You seem to be parsing my words to try to score points, Jim. I think you had a pretty good idea of what I meant.

    As for Capel being very good at selling the super elite brand that is Duke University, Duke Basketballl, and Coach K, well, okay great. I’d like a crack at that job. I would work for a third of what Jeff got. Of course, I’m joking here. I just happen to think if you work hard it’s close to being a ‘can’t fail’ sort of job. And I disagree with a previous poster saying it is on the same level as being an assistant at Michigan State, or Kansas, or any of the others. No, I think Duke at this time in history is above them all and clearly so.
    You said he was a relatively average basketball player. I disagree and can cite facts to back my assertion.

    Capel was an All-ACC player, an all-NCAAT-regional player, a starter for three NCAAT teams and ranks 26th on Duke's career scoring list. Just among four-year players, Capel scored more points than such notables as Dan Ewing, Thomas Hill, David Henderson, Chris Carrawell, Phil Henderson, DeMarcus Nelson and numerous other players I would describe as better than average for Duke players.

    And he wasn't just a scorer. Despite sharing the court with Grant Hill, Chris Collins and Steve Wojciechowski, Capel totaled 433 career assists. And he was a plus defender.


    An elite player? No. But I think most of us understand that there's room between elite and average. Call it very good. I think Capel occupied that sphere.

    Not sure how responding to the very specific words that you chose constitutes "parsing."

    And I think it's relevant to the subject at hand in that it suggests that you may have a bias against Capel, the origins of which elude me but which seems evident.
    Last edited by jimsumner; 12-26-2018 at 07:38 PM.

  10. #1830
    I believe that Jim's summary confirms that characterizing Jeff Capel as an "average" Duke basketball player requires a good deal more than "some wiggle room." To reinforce that point, let me add that based on the current media guide, which lists over 450 former Duke players, being the 26th on the list of all-time Duke basketball scoring leaders puts Jeff Capel in the top 6%. In addition, it merits noting that Jeff Capel still ranks 10th among Duke players in career 3-point shooting percentage. Hardly the stuff of "average" players.

    Moreover, to state as a fact that "[n]one of these guys [being recruited in the recent past] had ever heard of Jeff Capel as a basketball player" seems a bit presumptuous, considering that he is featured in what is almost certainly the second or third most famous and frequently replayed video of a Duke basketball player making a shot. Anyone who has watched a substantial number of televised college basketball games, or any of the Duke-UNC games broadcast in the last 20 years, has certainly seen Jeff Capel's beat-the-buzzer shot from near midcourt to send the 1995 UNC at Duke game into overtime. Maybe not all of the recruits who were watching knew the player's name, but it has been repeated enough by announcers in reference to that replay that I think it's fair to assume at least some, if not many, were aware who it was.

    Finally, I doubt anyone here would dispute that Jeff Capel's success in recruiting top players to Duke was attributable in large part to the prestige and appeal of the Duke program, as well as the opportunity to play for Coach K. But based on statements made by some of the recruits themselves, I don't see how -- or why -- anyone would deny that Jeff Capel's own personality and ability to connect with those young players and their family members also played a significant role in sealing the deal.

    At the very least, I believe that all Duke fans should be grateful to Jeff Capel for his contributions to our basketball program, both as a player and as an assistant coach. Let's not forget that there was a time when, as a player, he heard a response from Duke fans in Cameron that was perceived, rightly or wrongly, as disapproval -- treatment that, to my knowledge, no Duke player before or since has experienced. Nonetheless, his obvious love of and commitment to the Duke program never wavered. No one will ever convince me that his efforts as a recruiter and associate head coach were not instrumental to the Blue Devils winning that 2015 title. In my judgment, that kind of loyalty and legacy ought to count for something. Certainly, the man does not deserve to be bashed by Duke fans.

  11. #1831
    FYI - Wendell Moore led his Cox Mill team to a 92-82 win at the Beach Ball tourney in Myrtle Beach today. He was 13/22 shooting and 8/9 FT.He also had 14 boards of which 5 were offensive. Cox Mill next plays Friday.

  12. #1832
    Quote Originally Posted by jimsumner View Post
    You said he was a relatively average basketball player. I disagree and can cite facts to back my assertion.

    Capel was an All-ACC player, an all-NCAAT-regional player, a starter for three NCAAT teams and ranks 26th on Duke's career scoring list. Just among four-year players, Capel scored more points than such notables as Dan Ewing, Thomas Hill, David Henderson, Chris Carrawell, Phil Henderson, DeMarcus Nelson and numerous other players I would describe as better than average for Duke players.

    And he wasn't just a scorer. Despite sharing the court with Grant Hill, Chris Collins and Steve Wojciechowski, Capel totaled 433 career assists. And he was a plus defender.


    An elite player? No. But I think most of us understand that there's room between elite and average. Call it very good. I think Capel occupied that sphere.

    Not sure how responding to the very specific words that you chose constitutes "parsing."

    And I think it's relevant to the subject at hand in that it suggests that you may have a bias against Capel, the origins of which elude me but which seems evident.
    Jim, the point I was trying to make — my inelegant manner notwithstanding— was that Capel didn’t have the kind of on-court basketball background that would have given him instant credibility as a former elite NBA player like that of Penny Hardaway or even, say, Johnny Dawkins. And he wasn’t an elite former head coach — after being summarily fired from Oklahoma right before Duke hired him.

    So what would have made Jeff Capel stand out to these elite recruits? Because he knows how to “talk their language”, as someone earlier had opined? Seriously?? What could Capel have been saying to these guys that was demonstrably different/better than what any other Duke recruiter could just as readily have said to them? My point being that it was not about Capel; it was about Duke University and Coach K. You guys can continue to think Jeff Capel hung the moon if that’s what you want to believe. I do not concur.

    All that being said, I wish him well at Pitt, except for when they play Duke. I would be perfectly happy to see him have recruiting success — as long as it doesn’t come at Duke’s expense — and have a successful career as a coach or whatever he wants to do.

  13. #1833
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by Steven43 View Post
    Jim, the point I was trying to make — my inelegant manner notwithstanding— was that Capel didn’t have the kind of on-court basketball background that would have given him instant credibility as a former elite NBA player like that of Penny Hardaway or even, say, Johnny Dawkins. And he wasn’t an elite former head coach — after being summarily fired from Oklahoma right before Duke hired him.

    So what would have made Jeff Capel stand out to these elite recruits? Because he knows how to “talk their language”, as someone earlier had opined? Seriously?? What could Capel have been saying to these guys that was demonstrably different/better than what any other Duke recruiter could just as readily have said to them? My point being that it was not about Capel; it was about Duke University and Coach K. You guys can continue to think Jeff Capel hung the moon if that’s what you want to believe. I do not concur.

    All that being said, I wish him well at Pitt, except for when they play Duke. I would be perfectly happy to see him have recruiting success — as long as it doesn’t come at Duke’s expense — and have a successful career as a coach or whatever he wants to do.
    No one associated with Duke denies the reality that Jeff Capel was an excellent recruiter at Duke. Not the first, not the last, not the best. But pretty darn good and pretty darn important.

    Personality helped. Speaking the so-called language helped. But he has/had an absolutely prodigious work ethic. Remember that car you bought and the salesperson who followed up and followed up and followed up and convinced you that he/she really cared?

    Because deep down, they did.

    So, you made sure to buy your next car from that person.

    That was Jeff Capel at Duke. He was the guy who made sure that no priority recruit felt unappreciated or forgotten about or marginalized.

    And the relevance of his playing career eludes me. How many current high-school players remember Chris Carrawell or Nate James as players? Carrawell finished his Duke career 19 seasons ago. Vernon Carney wasn't born yet.

    So, if Capel's career doesn't impress today's teenagers, why would Carrawell's?

    Penny Hardaway is a unicorn, I suspect. A local hero returns home to return his hometown school to its former glory. Not sure it makes sense to compare Capel's situation or anyone else's to that of Hardaway.

    The irony of this sidebar is that, if you go back a few months, I was also defending the Duke coaching staff and suggesting that Duke would get its share of recruits in this class. But believing that does not minimize the contributions made by Capel and the adjustments his departure forced on the current assistants.
    Last edited by jimsumner; 12-26-2018 at 10:04 PM.

  14. #1834
    Quote Originally Posted by jimsumner View Post
    But he has/had an absolutely prodigious work ethic. Remember that car you bought and the salesperson who followed up and followed up and followed up and convinced you that he/she really cared?

    Because deep down, they did.

    So, you made sure to buy your next car from that person.

    That was Jeff Capel at Duke. He was the guy who made sure that no priority recruit felt unappreciated or forgotten about or marginalized.

    The irony of this sidebar is that, if you go back a few months, I was also defending the Duke coaching staff and suggesting that Duke would get its share of recruits in this class. But believing that does not minimize the contributions made by Capel and the adjustments his departure forced on the current assistants.
    Okay. Those are fair points. I didn’t know about Capel’s tendency to go the extra mile, as you described. If true — and you say it is, so I will believe you — he deserves credit. Thanks for letting me know.

  15. #1835
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Forest Hills, NY
    Quote Originally Posted by jimsumner View Post

    Penny Hardaway is a unicorn, I suspect. A local hero returns home to return his hometown school to its former glory.
    Exactly the Chris Mullin situation here at St. John’s.

  16. #1836
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Deeetroit City
    Quote Originally Posted by jimsumner View Post
    … Penny Hardaway is a unicorn, I suspect. A local hero returns home to return his hometown school to its former glory. ...
    Quote Originally Posted by duke74 View Post
    Exactly the Chris Mullin situation here at St. John’s.
    The term "unicorn" is meant to denote "rare," once in a generation type of thing, no?

  17. #1837
    Quote Originally Posted by BD80 View Post
    The term "unicorn" is meant to denote "rare," once in a generation type of thing, no?
    Only one unicorn in a generation? Sounds lonely. But I guess that explains why there aren’t anymore unicorns.

  18. #1838
    For me, Jeff Capel basically (helped) usher in the one and done era to Duke.

    It was no coincidence we started to pull in the top ranked recruits once Capel and K laid out a long term vision for Duke back in 2011 (fresh off a National title with an upperclassmen laden team).

  19. #1839
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    NC
    Quote Originally Posted by Dukehk View Post
    For me, Jeff Capel basically (helped) usher in the one and done era to Duke.

    It was no coincidence we started to pull in the top ranked recruits once Capel and K laid out a long term vision for Duke back in 2011 (fresh off a National title with an upperclassmen laden team).
    Well, to be fair, we had already landed two one-and-dones in a row (Irving and Rivers) before Capel returned. And we weren’t all that fresh off of that title when Capel returned, either.

  20. #1840
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Forest Hills, NY
    Quote Originally Posted by BD80 View Post
    The term "unicorn" is meant to denote "rare," once in a generation type of thing, no?
    I was actually referring to the hometown hero returning thing...

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