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  1. #1981
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    Quote Originally Posted by bullettoothtony View Post
    Just read an article on the rivals basketball recruiting website.

    Interview with Stewart, he said he pretty much knew where he wanted to go and it's a matter of figuring out when/how to announce.
    If you listen very quietly, you won't hear the gerbil. Fun...

  2. #1982
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    Deeetroit City
    Quote Originally Posted by Kedsy View Post
    Yes, that probably would have been a more easy way to say what I said. I did mention I'd used a lot of words.


    (though if we do end up with, e.g., Stewart and Carey plus seniors Bolden and DeLaurier, which is not out of the question, it's hard to imagine K not trying to give all four of those guys at least 10 to 15 minutes)
    A words and a minutes post combined!

  3. #1983
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
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    Winston Salem, NC
    For those that know a lot more than I do, question, is Wendell Moore a poor mans Grant Hill(being a point forward). Even so, he's still going to be a freshmen and we know about those freshmen mistakes on the court. Just wondering after reading all the posts regarding Duke's point guard for next season. GoDuke!

  4. #1984
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
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    Winston Salem, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by scottdude8 View Post
    FWIW NBADraft.net currently has Tre as a very late first-rounder, but also the third true point guard off the board. I would imagine the biggest knock on him from a scouting perspective, given the direction of the modern NBA, is his below-average three point shooting. Considering we're all speculating here (since there's really nothing else we can do, haha) I would imagine that were Tre to come back to school, focus on his shooting, and turn himself into a 30-35% three point threat, he would inch up into lottery status in the 2020 draft given his pedigree and the obvious intangibles he possesses.

    All that said, I agree with the sentiments that many have articulated here: namely, what's made Duke more consistent (relatively speaking) than other schools relying on one-and-done recruits is that, for the most part, both K and the players come in knowing that they'll be around one year. Frank Jackson is really the only guy who I can think of as a potential surprise to the program with his decision to leave early. With that in mind, it wouldn't surprise me if Tre and K have talked about a sophomore year considering the zero recruiting interest (that we know of) in PGs. I also would never fault Tre for leaving early if he plays well enough to secure himself a first round pick (that's been my mantra with early entries to keep myself sane in this era of CBB), and I imagine no one in the program would either.

    Final thought: there's been a ton of talk about how people doubt Goldwire could come in and play significant PG minutes for us next year, and even more doubt that it's in the plan to do so. I'm a bit less certain on that front. IMHO PG is the one position on the basketball court where true positional awareness and experience can outweigh pure talent and athleticism. I know many will strongly disagree with me on this, but I'd take a team with Tyler Thornton at the point than a team with a "converted" shooting guard shifting over to that position, like we've done with guys like Grayson, Matt Jones, Frank Jackson, etc. So if Tre does leave us after this year, and if the lack of interest in recruiting a PG is legitimate, I'd personally expect JG to at the very least compete for significant minutes next year given what I've seen from him (specifically his similarities to Tyler that I've mentioned in a few posts).
    I think I would take that trade Grayson, Matt, or Jackson for Tyler Thornton. That to me would be like a Lou Brock(to the Cards) for Ernie Broglio(from the Cubs) trade. As much as I liked Tyler, I thought the other 3 were better even if they were SGs. GoRedbirds and GoDuke!

  5. #1985
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    Steamboat Springs, CO
    Quote Originally Posted by jv001 View Post
    I think I would take that trade Grayson, Matt, or Jackson for Tyler Thornton. That to me would be like a Lou Brock(to the Cards) for Ernie Broglio(from the Cubs) trade. As much as I liked Tyler, I thought the other 3 were better even if they were SGs. GoRedbirds and GoDuke!
    Didn't look it up, but wasn't it Bobby DelGreco?
    Sage Grouse

    ---------------------------------------
    'When I got on the bus for my first road game at Duke, I saw that every player was carrying textbooks or laptops. I coached in the SEC for 25 years, and I had never seen that before, not even once.' - David Cutcliffe to Duke alumni in Washington, DC, June 2013

  6. #1986
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    Jun 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by sagegrouse View Post
    Didn't look it up, but wasn't it Bobby DelGreco?
    No it was Ernie who had been a 20 game winner either the year before or two years ago. I've been a Cardinal fan since the Stan Musial days. I believe throatybeard is as well. Now for that guy named, Sumner, I think he's a biggggggg Yankee fan. GoDuke!

    I just looked it up. The Cards traded Ernie, Bobby Shantz and Doug Clemens for Lou. But I was wrong, Ernie won 21 games in 1961 but only 18 the year before the trade. One of the worst trades in baseball. GoDuke!
    Last edited by jv001; 01-08-2019 at 10:19 AM. Reason: more information

  7. #1987
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Quote Originally Posted by jv001 View Post
    For those that know a lot more than I do, question, is Wendell Moore a poor mans Grant Hill(being a point forward). Even so, he's still going to be a freshmen and we know about those freshmen mistakes on the court. Just wondering after reading all the posts regarding Duke's point guard for next season. GoDuke!
    Yes, unless a surprising addition like sophomore Tre Jones occurs, I would make Wendell the favorite to be the primary ballhandler / de facto point guard on the team next year. He has a nice handle and good passing vision.

    Still, it would be much better if he were the secondary guy instead, especially as an incoming freshman.

  8. #1988
    How about the Pirates trading the homegrown Dick Groat to the Cardinals for Don Cardwell !

  9. #1989
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    May 2010
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    New York, NY
    Quote Originally Posted by Troublemaker View Post
    Yes, unless a surprising addition like sophomore Tre Jones occurs, I would make Wendell the favorite to be the primary ballhandler / de facto point guard on the team next year. He has a nice handle and good passing vision.

    Still, it would be much better if he were the secondary guy instead, especially as an incoming freshman.
    With the caveat that I am not at all well versed in Wendell's skills / highlight tapes / game action / etc, this objectively strikes me as a very suboptimal plan. I realize you said as much in your post as well.

    Have we ever trotted out a freshman point SF? Has anyone?

    - Chillin

  10. #1990
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    Feb 2007
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    Hot'Lanta... home of the Falcons!
    Quote Originally Posted by scottdude8 View Post
    I know many will strongly disagree with me on this, but I'd take a team with Tyler Thornton at the point than a team with a "converted" shooting guard shifting over to that position, like we've done with guys like Grayson, Matt Jones, Frank Jackson, etc.
    Not saying I entirely disagree, but it is worth noting that Duke has had some success with "converted" SGs running the point. We did that very thing in 2010 with John Scheyer and the season ended quite nicely.
    Why are you wasting time here when you could be wasting it by listening to the latest episode of the DBR Podcast?

  11. #1991
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    Jun 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pghdukie View Post
    How about the Pirates trading the homegrown Dick Groat to the Cardinals for Don Cardwell !
    Now I loved that trade. Dick Groat(Duke) to the Cards for Cardwell. If I'm not mistaken, Don is from North Carolina. Groat helped the Cardinals win a W/S after coming over to the team. GoDuke!

  12. #1992
    Quote Originally Posted by ChillinDuke View Post
    With the caveat that I am not at all well versed in Wendell's skills / highlight tapes / game action / etc, this objectively strikes me as a very suboptimal plan. I realize you said as much in your post as well.

    Have we ever trotted out a freshman point SF? Has anyone?

    - Chillin
    This is essentially happening right now, is it not? Barrett or Zion or Reddish will frequently bring the ball up the court and initiate the offense. Of course, they have Tre Jones to help out if need be and he will take on playmaking duties once in the halfcourt offense. It seems to be working out quite well right now. I think this is the future of Duke (and NBA) basketball.

  13. #1993
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    May 2010
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    New York, NY
    Quote Originally Posted by DavidBenAkiva View Post
    This is essentially happening right now, is it not? Barrett or Zion or Reddish will frequently bring the ball up the court and initiate the offense. Of course, they have Tre Jones to help out if need be and he will take on playmaking duties once in the halfcourt offense. It seems to be working out quite well right now. I think this is the future of Duke (and NBA) basketball.
    I mean, no I don't think this is essentially happening in any way. Tre Jones is a consummate true PG. Other than fast breaks and infrequent one-off plays, Tre Jones is initiating everything. Is he not? I'm not sure I've seen a single play where Zion brings the ball up the floor and initiates the offense.

    - Chillin

  14. #1994
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    California
    Quote Originally Posted by UrinalCake View Post
    I assumed he was just referencing the Kessler offer (the news of which broke the following evening). It's in the 2020 recruiting thread.

  15. #1995
    Quote Originally Posted by DavidBenAkiva View Post
    This is essentially happening right now, is it not? Barrett or Zion or Reddish will frequently bring the ball up the court and initiate the offense. Of course, they have Tre Jones to help out if need be and he will take on playmaking duties once in the halfcourt offense. It seems to be working out quite well right now. I think this is the future of Duke (and NBA) basketball.
    Cam initiated 6 turnovers in 20 minutes against Clemson.

  16. #1996
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
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    Dallas, TX
    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post
    Not saying I entirely disagree, but it is worth noting that Duke has had some success with "converted" SGs running the point. We did that very thing in 2010 with John Scheyer and the season ended quite nicely.
    I think Scheyer was more the exception than the rule though. This hasn't worked out great most of the time. Grayson Allen, Austin Rivers, Quinn Cook, Frank Jackson, Derryck Thornton, Nolan Smith, Eliot Williams, and Greg Paulus are all the point guards we've had since the 2002 team who were the starting point guard at some point for a Duke team that didn't get to the final four. The only other exception was the Dockery/Paulus PG committee on the 2006 team that made it to the final four, with seniors Redick and Williams (we'll never have 2 seniors that good ever again), and freshman star Luol Deng.

    I would put Allen, Rivers, Cook, Jackson, Smith, and Williams in the "combo guard" category. Thornton was too inexperienced (and not that good) and Paulus was too much of a liability on D.

    So really, Scheyer is the only guy who was able to do it successfully. When we've had a true point guard (J-Will, Duhon, Jones) it's usually worked out better.
    Last edited by kAzE; 01-08-2019 at 01:36 PM.

  17. #1997
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    scottdude8 is offline Moderator, Contributor, Zoubek disciple, and resident Wolverine
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by kAzE View Post
    I think Scheyer was more the exception than the rule though. This hasn't worked out great most of the time. Grayson Allen, Austin Rivers, Quinn Cook, Frank Jackson, Derryck Thornton, Nolan Smith, Eliot Williams, and Greg Paulus are all the point guards we've had since the 2002 team who were the starting point guard at some point for a Duke team that didn't get to the final four.

    I would put Allen, Rivers, Cook, Jackson, Smith, and Williams in the "combo guard" category. Thornton was too inexperienced (and not that good) and Paulus was too much of a liability on D.

    So really, Scheyer is the only guy who was able to do it successfully. When we've had a true point guard (Hurley, J-Will, Duhon, Jones) it's usually worked out better.
    I think whether or not I'd "trade" Grayson, Matt Jones, etc. for Tyler is a completely different question from whether or not the team is better off with a true PG (like Tyler) or not. I think we can probably all agree that most, if not all of the guys we're discussing are more talented and/or more athletic than Tyler was. But, IMHO playing PG requires a more thorough understanding of not only a team's offense, but the entire game of basketball, then any other position, and I think playing that position for years makes it much easier to take on that role. Other guys have been more than capable of replacing the athleticism, shooting, passing, etc. of a pure PG like Tyler, but it always has come with a slight dip in the general "flow" of the team on offense in my view.

    TL;DR: I'm not arguing that the litany of guys we're discussing here are better basketball players than Tyler was, just like I'm not saying that next year Jordan Goldwire is necessarily our most talented option at PG if Tre leaves. I am saying that, even in modern "positionless" basketball, PG is the hardest position to fit someone into that hasn't naturally played there, which is why our most successful teams have tended to have not only talented players at the PG spot, but players who are "true PGs" (or have adapted to that role exceptionally well like Scheyer) at that spot. So I'd trade a slight downgrade in talent/athleticism at that spot for an experienced player in that role.
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  18. #1998
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    Feb 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by El_Diablo View Post
    I assumed he was just referencing the Kessler offer (the news of which broke the following evening). It's in the 2020 recruiting thread.
    Nope... I was referencing something a fair number of us have heard about (I think) regarding 2019 recruiting that has not happened yet. I was led to believe it was a week or two away. Perhaps the timeline has moved or perhaps the player in question has had second thoughts or perhaps it will happen within days. Sorry, I wish I knew more.
    Why are you wasting time here when you could be wasting it by listening to the latest episode of the DBR Podcast?

  19. #1999
    Quote Originally Posted by kAzE View Post
    The only other exception was the Dockery/Paulus PG committee on the 2006 team that made it to the final four, with seniors Redick and Williams (we'll never have 2 seniors that good ever again), and freshman star Luol Deng.
    The 2006 team did not make the Final Four. Also, Luol Deng's only season at Duke was 2003-04 (when Redick and Williams were sophomores and Chris Duhon was the PG).

  20. #2000
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    Nov 2007
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    Hopefully Stewart doesn't join Bryan Antoine and Josiah James on the Duke Crystal Ball team.

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