For those that know a lot more than I do, question, is Wendell Moore a poor mans Grant Hill(being a point forward). Even so, he's still going to be a freshmen and we know about those freshmen mistakes on the court. Just wondering after reading all the posts regarding Duke's point guard for next season. GoDuke!
I think I would take that trade Grayson, Matt, or Jackson for Tyler Thornton. That to me would be like a Lou Brock(to the Cards) for Ernie Broglio(from the Cubs) trade. As much as I liked Tyler, I thought the other 3 were better even if they were SGs. GoRedbirds and GoDuke!
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'When I got on the bus for my first road game at Duke, I saw that every player was carrying textbooks or laptops. I coached in the SEC for 25 years, and I had never seen that before, not even once.' - David Cutcliffe to Duke alumni in Washington, DC, June 2013
No it was Ernie who had been a 20 game winner either the year before or two years ago. I've been a Cardinal fan since the Stan Musial days. I believe throatybeard is as well. Now for that guy named, Sumner, I think he's a biggggggg Yankee fan. GoDuke!
I just looked it up. The Cards traded Ernie, Bobby Shantz and Doug Clemens for Lou. But I was wrong, Ernie won 21 games in 1961 but only 18 the year before the trade. One of the worst trades in baseball. GoDuke!
Last edited by jv001; 01-08-2019 at 10:19 AM. Reason: more information
Yes, unless a surprising addition like sophomore Tre Jones occurs, I would make Wendell the favorite to be the primary ballhandler / de facto point guard on the team next year. He has a nice handle and good passing vision.
Still, it would be much better if he were the secondary guy instead, especially as an incoming freshman.
How about the Pirates trading the homegrown Dick Groat to the Cardinals for Don Cardwell !
With the caveat that I am not at all well versed in Wendell's skills / highlight tapes / game action / etc, this objectively strikes me as a very suboptimal plan. I realize you said as much in your post as well.
Have we ever trotted out a freshman point SF? Has anyone?
- Chillin
Why are you wasting time here when you could be wasting it by listening to the latest episode of the DBR Podcast?
This is essentially happening right now, is it not? Barrett or Zion or Reddish will frequently bring the ball up the court and initiate the offense. Of course, they have Tre Jones to help out if need be and he will take on playmaking duties once in the halfcourt offense. It seems to be working out quite well right now. I think this is the future of Duke (and NBA) basketball.
I mean, no I don't think this is essentially happening in any way. Tre Jones is a consummate true PG. Other than fast breaks and infrequent one-off plays, Tre Jones is initiating everything. Is he not? I'm not sure I've seen a single play where Zion brings the ball up the floor and initiates the offense.
- Chillin
I think Scheyer was more the exception than the rule though. This hasn't worked out great most of the time. Grayson Allen, Austin Rivers, Quinn Cook, Frank Jackson, Derryck Thornton, Nolan Smith, Eliot Williams, and Greg Paulus are all the point guards we've had since the 2002 team who were the starting point guard at some point for a Duke team that didn't get to the final four. The only other exception was the Dockery/Paulus PG committee on the 2006 team that made it to the final four, with seniors Redick and Williams (we'll never have 2 seniors that good ever again), and freshman star Luol Deng.
I would put Allen, Rivers, Cook, Jackson, Smith, and Williams in the "combo guard" category. Thornton was too inexperienced (and not that good) and Paulus was too much of a liability on D.
So really, Scheyer is the only guy who was able to do it successfully. When we've had a true point guard (J-Will, Duhon, Jones) it's usually worked out better.
Last edited by kAzE; 01-08-2019 at 01:36 PM.
I think whether or not I'd "trade" Grayson, Matt Jones, etc. for Tyler is a completely different question from whether or not the team is better off with a true PG (like Tyler) or not. I think we can probably all agree that most, if not all of the guys we're discussing are more talented and/or more athletic than Tyler was. But, IMHO playing PG requires a more thorough understanding of not only a team's offense, but the entire game of basketball, then any other position, and I think playing that position for years makes it much easier to take on that role. Other guys have been more than capable of replacing the athleticism, shooting, passing, etc. of a pure PG like Tyler, but it always has come with a slight dip in the general "flow" of the team on offense in my view.
TL;DR: I'm not arguing that the litany of guys we're discussing here are better basketball players than Tyler was, just like I'm not saying that next year Jordan Goldwire is necessarily our most talented option at PG if Tre leaves. I am saying that, even in modern "positionless" basketball, PG is the hardest position to fit someone into that hasn't naturally played there, which is why our most successful teams have tended to have not only talented players at the PG spot, but players who are "true PGs" (or have adapted to that role exceptionally well like Scheyer) at that spot. So I'd trade a slight downgrade in talent/athleticism at that spot for an experienced player in that role.
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Nope... I was referencing something a fair number of us have heard about (I think) regarding 2019 recruiting that has not happened yet. I was led to believe it was a week or two away. Perhaps the timeline has moved or perhaps the player in question has had second thoughts or perhaps it will happen within days. Sorry, I wish I knew more.
Why are you wasting time here when you could be wasting it by listening to the latest episode of the DBR Podcast?
Hopefully Stewart doesn't join Bryan Antoine and Josiah James on the Duke Crystal Ball team.