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  1. #481
    Quote Originally Posted by Troublemaker View Post
    The USA U18 team has cut 15 players to get down to 18 finalists.

    The 18 finalists are: Cole Anthony (Archbishop Molloy H.S./Briarwood, N.Y.); Armando Bacot(Trinity Episcopal School/Richmond, Va.); Keion Brooks (North Side H.S./Fort Wayne, Ind.); DJ Carton (Bettendorf H.S./Bettendorf, Iowa); Hunter Dickinson (DeMatha Catholic H.S./Hyattsville, Md.); Ayo Dosunmu (Morgan Park H.S./Chicago, Ill.); Quentin Grimes (College Park H.S./The Woodlands, Texas); Kamaka Hepa (Jefferson H.S./Barrow, Alaska); Matthew Hurt (John Marshall H.S./Rochester, Minn.); Trayce Jackson-Davis (Center Grove H.S./Greenwood, Ind.); Josiah James(Porter-Gaud School/Charleston, S.C.); Jalen Leque (Christ School/Teaneck, N.J.); Tyrese Maxey(South Garland H.S./Dallas, Texas); Justin Moore (DeMatha Catholic H.S./Hyattsville, Md.); Jeremiah Robinson-Earl (Bishop Miege H.S./Shawnee Mission, Kan.); Anton Watson (Gonzaga Prep/Spokane, Wash.); Mark Watts Jr. (Old Redford Academy/Detroit, Mich.); and Coby White(Greenfield H.S./Goldsboro, N.C.).


    It's slightly annoying that they don't produce a list of cuts, but piecing it together...

    Joey Baker, Bryan Antoine, and Joe Girard were cut.

    Glad that Josiah James and Matthew Hurt made it.
    I place a lot of stock in USA Bball as it relates to our recruits and potential PT. If Joey couldn't make the cut down to final 18, that likely means he's not ready for big time minutes given our plethora of wings. I think this is where most people had him slotted already, but my sense is this means his ceiling is as a 8th man getting 10mpg--similar to AOC's role last year.

    AOC was somewhat thrust into that role b/c we only had 3 other guards who could play and needed to bring at least 1 guard off the bench and it was down to him or Goldwire. With this team, we may have a similar need given we just lost 5 guys and this team will want for shooting so he might be thrust into those minutes. (Unless Jack can elevate his game and shooting and earn minutes as a 3/4)

  2. #482
    Separately, the U17 USA bball training camp starts in a week. Excited to see how the team shakes out as its usually an indication to me whether we are recruiting the top guys at their position. Wendell Moore in particular is rated in the high teens as a SF, so I'm excited to see if he can make the team and make big contributions given he feels like a big duke lean.

    Several other duke prospects there like Cary and Stewart (and probably others...)

  3. #483
    Quote Originally Posted by SilkyJ View Post
    I place a lot of stock in USA Bball as it relates to our recruits and potential PT. If Joey couldn't make the cut down to final 18, that likely means he's not ready for big time minutes given our plethora of wings. I think this is where most people had him slotted already, but my sense is this means his ceiling is as a 8th man getting 10mpg--similar to AOC's role last year.

    AOC was somewhat thrust into that role b/c we only had 3 other guards who could play and needed to bring at least 1 guard off the bench and it was down to him or Goldwire. With this team, we may have a similar need given we just lost 5 guys and this team will want for shooting so he might be thrust into those minutes. (Unless Jack can elevate his game and shooting and earn minutes as a 3/4)
    Except this coming year's team has four other guards who can play, so unless something crazy happens, Joey will likely have a lesser role than AOC had this past year.

  4. #484
    Quote Originally Posted by Kedsy View Post
    Except this coming year's team has four other guards who can play, so unless something crazy happens, Joey will likely have a lesser role than AOC had this past year.
    Yep totally fair and I didn't make myself clear, but I agree. Last year's team needed a guard of the bench and this year's team has more guards. I assume AOC will be our one guard off the bench as more of a 6th/7th man (as opposed to 8th man last year).

    But someone will likely be expected to be an 8th man type role for 5-10mpg depending on fouls/injuries/fatigue/etc. Who I assume we think Joey is competing for those 8th man minutes along with Jack? (AAAAAAnd we're into a minutes discussion...)

  5. #485
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Cary, NC
    Great article in The Athletic about Tre and Tyus and the bond they share. I won’t repost any paid content, but will share that a.) multiple sources including Coach K and Tyus himself have confirmed that Tre is ahead of where Tyus was at the same point, and b.) Tre was a Duke fan way before Tyus was, and could actually be credited with “recruiting” Tyus to come to Duke.

    Cant wait to see him on campus and how he leads this talented young group.

  6. #486
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Chicago
    Quote Originally Posted by SilkyJ View Post
    Yep totally fair and I didn't make myself clear, but I agree. Last year's team needed a guard of the bench and this year's team has more guards. I assume AOC will be our one guard off the bench as more of a 6th/7th man (as opposed to 8th man last year).

    But someone will likely be expected to be an 8th man type role for 5-10mpg depending on fouls/injuries/fatigue/etc. Who I assume we think Joey is competing for those 8th man minutes along with Jack? (AAAAAAnd we're into a minutes discussion...)
    It seems highly likely to be Joey v Jack for the 0.5 in a 7.5 man rotation, as the ability of Cam and RJ to play the point probably relegates Goldwire to mop-up/emergency minutes.

  7. #487
    Quote Originally Posted by luvdahops View Post
    It seems highly likely to be Joey v Jack for the 0.5 in a 7.5 man rotation, as the ability of Cam and RJ to play the point probably relegates Goldwire to mop-up/emergency minutes.
    Might I suggest an 8 man rotation? Or is that taboo here?
    Race Bannon can drive ANYTHING!
    --and did you know Tim Matheson broke into show biz as voice of young Johnny Quest?

  8. #488
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Deeetroit City
    Quote Originally Posted by HereBeforeCoachK View Post
    Might I suggest an 8 man rotation? Or is that taboo here?
    Suggest 9. Go for it! See what happens!

  9. #489
    Quote Originally Posted by BD80 View Post
    Suggest 9. Go for it! See what happens!
    I imagine I'll be asked how many championships I've coached, or something inane like that.
    Race Bannon can drive ANYTHING!
    --and did you know Tim Matheson broke into show biz as voice of young Johnny Quest?

  10. #490
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Vermont
    Quote Originally Posted by Kedsy View Post
    Except this coming year's team has four other guards who can play, so unless something crazy happens, Joey will likely have a lesser role than AOC had this past year.
    Very likely to be true, but at this point there still have to be questions about the shooting prowess of some of our highest rated recruits, so it's at least possible that The Joey provides some shooting skill we need. Not likely, but far from implausible. Every class seems to have at least one or two surprises (both good and bad).

  11. #491
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    NC Raised, DC Resident
    Quote Originally Posted by HereBeforeCoachK View Post
    I imagine I'll be asked how many championships I've coached, or something inane like that.
    I believe the point is, you can suggest whatever number you'd like. You can then wish upon a star, or catch a leprechaun, or rub your lucky rabbit's foot. Then, it'll definitely come to be. So, sure, you can suggest an 8-man rotation.
    Haters gonna hate.

  12. #492
    Quote Originally Posted by HereBeforeCoachK View Post
    I imagine I'll be asked how many championships I've coached, or something inane like that.
    I'll ask if you went to Italian restaurants with asst coaches wives and did you hire hooked ? And did you pay a hundred grand for players ?
    If so - you probably have a championship and a pro team stop on your resume.

  13. #493
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Colorado
    Quote Originally Posted by Pghdukie View Post
    I'll ask if you went to Italian restaurants with asst coaches wives and did you hire hooked ? And did you pay a hundred grand for players ?
    If so - you probably have a championship and a pro team stop on your resume.
    I'm not sure I understand your response. Maybe a reference to Slick Rick Pitiono?

  14. #494
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Durham
    Quote Originally Posted by HereBeforeCoachK View Post
    Might I suggest an 8 man rotation? Or is that taboo here?
    I certainly might be mistaken, but I don’t remember K giving consistent minutes to an 8th player. Like ever.

  15. #495
    Quote Originally Posted by Steven43 View Post
    I certainly might be mistaken, but I don’t remember K giving consistent minutes to an 8th player. Like ever.
    Pretty sure that's the joke...

  16. #496
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Hot'Lanta... home of the Falcons!
    Quote Originally Posted by Steven43 View Post
    I certainly might be mistaken, but I don’t remember K giving consistent minutes to an 8th player. Like ever.
    Josh Hairston and Amile Jefferson each got 12.7 min/game as the 7th/8th men in 2013. Quinn Cook got 11+ min/game as the 8th man on the 2012 team. DAwkins got 12.6 min/game when he was 8th man in 2010.

    It happens... it just hasn't happened much in the past few years.
    I don't know what you are doing right now, but if you aren't listening to the DBR Podcast, you're doing it wrong.

  17. #497
    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post
    Josh Hairston and Amile Jefferson each got 12.7 min/game as the 7th/8th men in 2013. Quinn Cook got 11+ min/game as the 8th man on the 2012 team. DAwkins got 12.6 min/game when he was 8th man in 2010.

    It happens... it just hasn't happened much in the past few years.
    Jason, it seems to me that K used a deeper rotation in the years 87-89 as he kept the program moving ahead even after the massive graduation of 86. Am I mis-remembering that?
    Race Bannon can drive ANYTHING!
    --and did you know Tim Matheson broke into show biz as voice of young Johnny Quest?

  18. #498
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    NC
    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post
    Josh Hairston and Amile Jefferson each got 12.7 min/game as the 7th/8th men in 2013. Quinn Cook got 11+ min/game as the 8th man on the 2012 team. DAwkins got 12.6 min/game when he was 8th man in 2010.

    It happens... it just hasn't happened much in the past few years.
    O’Connell averaged 10 mpg this year as the 8th man. Plumlee averaged 9.6 in 2015 as the 8th man. Injuries to Giles and Bolden prevented it in 2017. In 2014, the 8th man changed during the season (Hairston and Plumlee), but those two combined to average over 15 mpg as the 8th man, with Matt Jones averaging almost 7 mpg as the 10th man. 2016 is the only non-injury season in the 2010s in which the 8th man didn’t get at least 8 mpg.

    In the one-and-done era, the 8th man has generally been in the roation for Duke. At the back end for sure. But in the roation.

  19. #499
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Chicago
    Quote Originally Posted by CDu View Post
    O’Connell averaged 10 mpg this year as the 8th man. Plumlee averaged 9.6 in 2015 as the 8th man. Injuries to Giles and Bolden prevented it in 2017. In 2014, the 8th man changed during the season (Hairston and Plumlee), but those two combined to average over 15 mpg as the 8th man, with Matt Jones averaging almost 7 mpg as the 10th man. 2016 is the only non-injury season in the 2010s in which the 8th man didn’t get at least 8 mpg.

    In the one-and-done era, the 8th man has generally been in the roation for Duke. At the back end for sure. But in the roation.
    Yeah, a lot of the whole rotation discussion on DBR hinges around how we define being in the rotation. That has generally been a 10 mpg threshold, which I think is a reasonable, objective standard. But I'm not sure it is all that reflective of how coaches or players think about being "in the rotation". A player who expects to play in every game, and generally does so, even if it is usually for 6-8 minutes total, probably considers himself to be in the regular rotation, especially of they are the primary/sole backup at a particular position (e.g. MP3 in 2014). I would think most coaches probably consider a player with that profile to be part of the rotation as well. So if we loosen the definition along these lines, I believe there would be at least several more instances of K playing an 8 man rotation over the years.

  20. #500
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Steamboat Springs, CO
    Quote Originally Posted by luvdahops View Post
    Yeah, a lot of the whole rotation discussion on DBR hinges around how we define being in the rotation. That has generally been a 10 mpg threshold, which I think is a reasonable, objective standard. But I'm not sure it is all that reflective of how coaches or players think about being "in the rotation". A player who expects to play in every game, and generally does so, even if it is usually for 6-8 minutes total, probably considers himself to be in the regular rotation, especially of they are the primary/sole backup at a particular position (e.g. MP3 in 2014). I would think most coaches probably consider a player with that profile to be part of the rotation as well. So if we loosen the definition along these lines, I believe there would be at least several more instances of K playing an 8 man rotation over the years.
    Moreover, there is an extreme position, occasionally advocated here, that if there is one game int he season, ONE important game, where only six players see the court, then we have a six-man rotation... because clearly only six players have earned the trust of the coach.

    I am good with the ten-minute rule (averaging up occasionally), because I think that gives a player solid game experience on which to build on.

    I also understand that if there are injuries, giving players who would otherwise not play a lotta minutes on the court, then there are some philosophical questions -- game management, player development, etc.
    Sage Grouse

    ---------------------------------------
    'When I got on the bus for my first road game at Duke, I saw that every player was carrying textbooks or laptops. I coached in the SEC for 25 years, and I had never seen that before, not even once.' - David Cutcliffe to Duke alumni in Washington, DC, June 2013

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