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  1. #61
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    New York, NY
    Quote Originally Posted by niveklaen View Post
    I think that it would reduce the number of commercials that could be shown at the end of the game. While we as fans would like this, it would reduce revenue to the NCAA and its member institutions. Therefore, I believe that this proposal is a non-starter.
    If viewership continues to decline rapidly across all televised sports, as some analysts strongly believe, I don't believe any viewer-focused proposal will be a non-starter.

    - Chillin

  2. #62
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Hot'Lanta... home of the Falcons!
    Quote Originally Posted by Eternal Outlaw View Post
    So a game can never end on a great defensive play (that doesn't turn into offense) like Thornton blocking Berry? Or JJ playing the UNC play perfectly in 2005 and UNC doesn't even get a shot off?

    No thank you, not everything has to end in an offensive score.
    What's more, the buzzer beater would be a thing of the past. Tyler Thornton's half-court heave to destroy Va Tech; Austin River's dagger in Zeller's face; Chris Duhon racing the length of the floor weaving his way through 13 Carolina defenders; Jeff Capel sending an epic game to overtime, and so on and so on...

    Oh, and Grant Hill to Christian Laettner.

    Yeah, I'll take timed games until the end of time.
    I don't know what you are doing right now, but if you aren't listening to the DBR Podcast, you're doing it wrong.

  3. #63
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    New York, NY
    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post
    What's more, the buzzer beater would be a thing of the past. Tyler Thornton's half-court heave to destroy Va Tech; Austin River's dagger in Zeller's face; Chris Duhon racing the length of the floor weaving his way through 13 Carolina defenders; Jeff Capel sending an epic game to overtime, and so on and so on...

    Oh, and Grant Hill to Christian Laettner.

    Yeah, I'll take timed games until the end of time.
    Well, technically yes. But practically, you'd have countless other epic shots to hit the 7-point mark. And for that reason, I think people would generally like the Elam concept. At least that part of the concept.

    - Chillin

  4. #64
    I dig the concept. Responding to misc objections:

    * You'd still have plenty of buzzer-beating finales, thanks to the shot clock.

    * Stats measured on a possession basis (the most valuable ones, IMO) would remain valid.

    * I don't see why underdogs would be any less likely to pull off an upset. It may require a different kind of underdog, however: more emphasis on turnovers (causing them when behind, preventing them when ahead), less emphasis on heroic shots and FTs.

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post
    Tyler Thornton's half-court heave to destroy Va Tech
    I don't remember that one

    Seriously though, this proposal is just a more complicated version of "First to X points wins." That's fine for playground stuff, but there are reasons that approach is never taken in the higher levels of any sport.

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Wander View Post
    I don't remember that one

    Seriously though, this proposal is just a more complicated version of "First to X points wins." That's fine for playground stuff, but there are reasons that approach is never taken in the higher levels of any sport.
    Tennis and volleyball, to name two.

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Berg View Post
    Tennis and volleyball, to name two.
    You're right. I should have qualified my statement more.

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Wander View Post
    You're right. I should have qualified my statement more.
    I understand. You meant REAL sports! [Ducks]

  9. #69
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Mary's Place
    Quote Originally Posted by Ian View Post
    I think it's a brilliant plan. Not only does it get rid of the foulfest at the end of games, but it also gets rid of the other thing many (and Duke fans especially) dread, STALLBALL.

    Think about it, you're up 10 with 4 minutes left, what do most teams do, they dribble the ball for 20 secs trying to run out the clock, which is incredibly boring to watch. With a rule change like this, there is no point in running out the clock, so teams would run their regular offense at the end of games.
    Ah, young grasshopper, you know nothing about this STALLBALL of which you speak. Once upon a time, there was no such thing as a shot clock. One coach, perhaps too clever for his own good, even tried to play an entire HALF just holding the ball. No, I am not making this up, it's even on youtube, so it MUST be true: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YRVmc6dO0g8

    You'll have to find the cuddliest Crusty in your neighborhood, bring him a six, no, make that twelve pack of fine craft beer, crawl up onto his lap, and let him tell you how EXCITING that game was, as well as other stories and legends not found on youtube. (Alas, I'm not Crusty enough - I wasn't there either).

    Now, as to this "proposal", I have never heard of anything more stupid in all my born days. This "foul fest" is not an "epidemic" any more. We fixed this "problem" with the shot clock and automatic 2 shots on the 10th foul and beyond.

    Only two simple steps are needed to prevent a so-called "foul fest":
    1. Make your free throws.
    2. Get out of my yard.
    "Quality is not an option!"

  10. #70
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Raleigh
    Quote Originally Posted by mattman91 View Post
    How about a soccer clock?
    I'll give you 4 minutes "extra" time to work on that proposal.

    [redacted] them and the horses they rode in on.

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by kmspeaks View Post
    Virginia basketball games would take 5 hours to complete.
    Precisely the point, under the new system it would force teams to abandon that boring style of play.

  12. #72
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    20 Minutes From The Heaven That Is Cameron Indoor
    Quote Originally Posted by Kedsy View Post
    When I used the word "favorite," I wasn't talking about Vegas, I meant "better team." That said, a 15-point favorite in Vegas clearly is the better team, so I'm not sure why the distinction would be relevant. As for Duke/SC, if I understand the proposal properly, Duke was down 10 with 3:30 to play when the timed game would have been stopped. So Duke would've had to outscore SC 17-6 in the unlimited-time game to win it. Would we have done that? Probably not, but we would have had a much better chance to do it than to make up 10 points with 3:30 to play.
    All I know is this "Elam Ending" "idea" might be the single dumbest idea ever come up with. Talk about ruining the game. It is an off the charts "junk up, ruin the game" idea. For one, the situation is not as bad as it's being portrayed. It only gets bad when a team is too far behind to realistically catch up, and they keep fouling anyway. That is on the coaches. Coaches should call off the fouling when it gets like that.

    I personally find it exciting when a team chokes on their FT's and the other team comes from behind to win. I think they experimented with a new rule in the NIT this year where the fouls reset at the 10 minute mark of each half. So in both halves of the half, you don't shoot until the 5th foul and it is 2 shots, not 1 and 1 thereafter. Not sure if they are planning to go to that rule or not.

    There are many different ways to address this without a complete junk up of the game via the suggested manner imo.

  13. #73
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Bowie, Maryland
    Duke beat Maryland in the gone in 60 second game because Drew Nicholas could not hit his free throws. I am sure that game creeped into Maryland's minds when they were up against us in the Final Four and let it slip away. What a game. I saw that game live at Cole Field House.

  14. #74
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Richmond, VA
    Sean Dockery vs vt

  15. #75
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Steamboat Springs, CO
    Quote Originally Posted by Newton_14 View Post
    I think they experimented with a new rule in the NIT this year where the fouls reset at the 10 minute mark of each half. So in both halves of the half, you don't shoot until the 5th foul and it is 2 shots, not 1 and 1 thereafter. Not sure if they are planning to go to that rule or not.
    o.
    The proposal you cite is an NCAA idea to keep its unique "two halves, not four quarters" format while incorporating some aspect of the four quarters' rules.
    Sage Grouse

    ---------------------------------------
    'When I got on the bus for my first road game at Duke, I saw that every player was carrying textbooks or laptops. I coached in the SEC for 25 years, and I had never seen that before, not even once.' - David Cutcliffe to Duke alumni in Washington, DC, June 2013

  16. #76
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    Issaquah, Washington
    How about this...? A judgement call on the part of the ref, of course. When the ref (and everyone in the stadium) knows the fouls are intentional, then either the foul count as two fouls (thus expediting the exit of a player from the game), and/or the player shooting the free throws gets three charity shots if fouled outside the three-point line.

  17. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by flagellaman View Post
    How about this...? A judgement call on the part of the ref, of course. When the ref (and everyone in the stadium) knows the fouls are intentional, then either the foul count as two fouls (thus expediting the exit of a player from the game), and/or the player shooting the free throws gets three charity shots if fouled outside the three-point line.
    Please no more judgment calls. Always a recipe for disaster.

  18. #78
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Chesapeake, VA.
    Quote Originally Posted by flagellaman View Post
    How about this...? A judgement call on the part of the ref, of course. When the ref (and everyone in the stadium) knows the fouls are intentional, then either the foul count as two fouls (thus expediting the exit of a player from the game), and/or the player shooting the free throws gets three charity shots if fouled outside the three-point line.
    You could make it three free throws no matter where the foul occurs. That would be much better than two shots and the ball, which had been suggested multiple times in this thread.


    I think the Elam suggestion is pretty stupid, but if I were to go with it, I, too, would do it for the entire game, not just the end. The number 7 is completely made up, anyway, right? I mean, why not eight, or six, or nine?

    To do it for the entire game, I'd make another change. I'd get rid of the shot clock entirely. Get rid of the game clock, too. Get rid of the ten-second halfcourt clock, as well. Play to sixty. Halftime when one team reaches thirty.

    The only thing timed would be the time-outs. If you're going to entirely change the game, go ahead and entirely change the game.

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by rsvman View Post
    You could make it three free throws no matter where the foul occurs. That would be much better than two shots and the ball, which had been suggested multiple times in this thread.


    I think the Elam suggestion is pretty stupid, but if I were to go with it, I, too, would do it for the entire game, not just the end. The number 7 is completely made up, anyway, right? I mean, why not eight, or six, or nine?

    To do it for the entire game, I'd make another change. I'd get rid of the shot clock entirely. Get rid of the game clock, too. Get rid of the ten-second halfcourt clock, as well. Play to sixty. Halftime when one team reaches thirty.

    The only thing timed would be the time-outs. If you're going to entirely change the game, go ahead and entirely change the game.
    Now you are just being testy and a purist. You must be inclusive of all viewpoints and ideas. Diversity of thinking on the issue will set you free. Of course, the game will stink.

  20. #80
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Midlothian, VA
    Quote Originally Posted by Newton_14 View Post
    I personally find it exciting when a team chokes on their FT's and the other team comes from behind to win. I think they experimented with a new rule in the NIT this year where the fouls reset at the 10 minute mark of each half. So in both halves of the half, you don't shoot until the 5th foul and it is 2 shots, not 1 and 1 thereafter. Not sure if they are planning to go to that rule or not.
    I didn't do the math, but isn't half of a half remarkably similar to a quarter?

    Let's break the game down into eighths. 5 minutes each. 8 fouls per eighth puts a team in quadruple bonus. Four free throws per foul. Reset the team foul counter at the end of each eighth. Give each player 8 fouls. Don't call it basketball. Call it crazy eight balls.

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