Golf Lessons? We talkin' bout practice?????!!!!!!

[Tripping William]

Looks like the check that Bob Rotella sent to rsvman has cleared the bank.

Seriously, good stuff. Keep it coming!

[rsvman]

Yep. A lot of good stuff in the book "Golf is not a game of perfect."

[rsvman]

Yep. A lot of good stuff in the book "Golf is not a game of perfect."

Quoting myself to add that I read this book years ago and internalized it so much I almost forgot where it came from!


I'll add that the one thing I remember most from the book was that Bob relayed a conversation he had with Freddie Couples one time, back when it was just starting to get popular to have a sports psychologist helping athletes. Bob says that Freddie came up to him at a tournament one time and asked, "Bob, should I have a sports psychologist?"
Bob: "I don't know, Freddie. Tell me a bit about your thought process when preparing to hit a shot."
Freddie: "Let's say I have a 6-iron approach shot in front of me. I take the 6-iron in my hand, and as I'm setting up for the shot, I think about the best shot I ever hit with that 6-iron. Then I hit the shot."
Bob: "You don't need me."

These aren't exact quotes, but it made it easier to tell who was saying what. But you get the main idea. That story stuck with me. I try to emulate that thought process in my playing.

[-jk]

I think Robin Williams (RIP) gave the best description of golf - ever.

It's not suitable for our family audience so if you haven't seen it, you'll have to find it yourself...

"This is brilliant: Right near the end, I'll put a flat piece with a little flag to give ya ... hope! But then I'll put a pool and a sandbox..."

-jk

[Channing]

Quoting myself to add that I read this book years ago and internalized it so much I almost forgot where it came from!


I'll add that the one thing I remember most from the book was that Bob relayed a conversation he had with Freddie Couples one time, back when it was just starting to get popular to have a sports psychologist helping athletes. Bob says that Freddie came up to him at a tournament one time and asked, "Bob, should I have a sports psychologist?"
Bob: "I don't know, Freddie. Tell me a bit about your thought process when preparing to hit a shot."
Freddie: "Let's say I have a 6-iron approach shot in front of me. I take the 6-iron in my hand, and as I'm setting up for the shot, I think about the best shot I ever hit with that 6-iron. Then I hit the shot."
Bob: "You don't need me."

These aren't exact quotes, but it made it easier to tell who was saying what. But you get the main idea. That story stuck with me. I try to emulate that thought process in my playing.

My personal favorite Freddie Couples quote:

Reporter: Freddie, what do you do when you have 60 yards in.
FC: Fire my caddie.

[rsvman]

My personal favorite Freddie Couples quote:

Reporter: Freddie, what do you do when you have 60 yards in.
FC: Fire my caddie.

This is priceless. Lol

[duketaylor]

I'm not gonna (yet) get into the taking lessons debate/discussion. I will in a few days. Regarding Dr. Bob Rotella; he's a friend of mine, I've slept in the basement of his house and worked with him for 7 years when I attempted the tour. His wife and daughter are awesome. We've talked, at length, about the psychology of life, golf, everything. He's helped formed me as a person (he may regret that). Yet, I thank him for that regularly. I haven't seen him for a couple years now, but would love to soon so I could introduce him to my wife and kids. My wife has heard tons about him from me. Golf is more psychology than physicality, at least for me.

We would talk often about what or how to think during a round or about a shot. Digressing, he told me when I first talked with him about a tournament in Charlottesville a couple years earlier that I had won about some shots I hit. Little did I know he was following my group and observing; I didn't know him at the time. He asked me about some of the shots I played and my mindset about how I wanted to play the hole. Luckily, I was a Duke student at the time and Coach Myers had helped me learn course management. If you've ever played Farmington Country Club in C'ville (highly recommended) then you'll know what I mean.
I've had many awesome chats with Dr. Bob over the years. I owe him a lot!!

[left_hook_lacey]

I'm not gonna (yet) get into the taking lessons debate/discussion. I will in a few days. Regarding Dr. Bob Rotella; he's a friend of mine, I've slept in the basement of his house and worked with him for 7 years when I attempted the tour. His wife and daughter are awesome. We've talked, at length, about the psychology of life, golf, everything. He's helped formed me as a person (he may regret that). Yet, I thank him for that regularly. I haven't seen him for a couple years now, but would love to soon so I could introduce him to my wife and kids. My wife has heard tons about him from me. Golf is more psychology than physicality, at least for me.

We would talk often about what or how to think during a round or about a shot. Digressing, he told me when I first talked with him about a tournament in Charlottesville a couple years earlier that I had won about some shots I hit. Little did I know he was following my group and observing; I didn't know him at the time. He asked me about some of the shots I played and my mindset about how I wanted to play the hole. Luckily, I was a Duke student at the time and Coach Myers had helped me learn course management. If you've ever played Farmington Country Club in C'ville (highly recommended) then you'll know what I mean.
I've had many awesome chats with Dr. Bob over the years. I owe him a lot!!

Whenever you decide to wade into those waters, I'm all ears.

[rsvman]

... Regarding Dr. Bob Rotella; he's a friend of mine, I've slept in the basement of his house and worked with him for 7 years when I attempted the tour. His wife and daughter are awesome. We've talked, at length, about the psychology of life, golf, everything. He's helped formed me as a person (he may regret that). Yet, I thank him for that regularly...

This is awesome. Color me slightly to moderately jealous.

[left_hook_lacey]

Well, I played this weekend after watching a few of Mike Malaska's videos. For good measure and another pair of capable eyes, I brought along a co-worker that shoots even par on a bad day. He's 5' 7" 170 lbs soaking wet and never hit a drive less than 300 yards all day. Very humbling.

My game was all over the place which was expected since I'm trying to change things for the better. One place I was noticeably better from watching the videos was putting. I watched Malaska's thoughts and theories on putting, went to the putting green an hour before my round and tried to apply the concepts. Then I played the putting games he suggested. I putted better in that round than I ever have. My distance control was remarkably better which has always been a issue for me, mostly because I don't play enough so it takes me a while to get the right "feel". And what's more important, when I did mis-hit the ball, I knew why. That's huge.


I'm trying to adapt Malaska's concept of "coming over the top, from the inside". I believe what he is saying, and I know what to do. I just can't do it yet. My co-worker kept showing me my divots pointed way left of the green, pausing me in my swing, sticking a tee in the ground up and to the right of the ball to try to get me to aim for it to swing inside out, but I came over and across putting side spin on the ball. Every. Single. Time.

The good news? Putting is getting better, gaining confidence. I now understand more than ever WHAT I'm supposed to be doing during the swing. I learned some good course management advice from my co-worker.

The bad news. Knowing WHAT to do, and being able to do it are two very different things. I have a long row to hoe to get old bad habits broken and new good habits ingrained. Challenge accepted!

Some people in this thread, Mike Malaska, and Harvy Penick's little red book all suggest to start practicing at the green, then work your way back to the tee and that's what I plan to do. If I can't square the putter face every time, how on earth can I expect myself to get a driver face square swinging 100%?

FYI: As far as the equipment discussion goes, my co-worker worked at Golf Galaxy for many years fitting clubs. I have yet to ask him a question about a club that he couldn't answer. His advice? Get an old used driver from a bargain bin at a pro shop, then put your money in the shaft and grip.


Just for giggles, and to keep me accountable, I'm going to update this thread with my progress, what I'm working on, etc. If and when I do play a complete round, I'll post the score here.

[rsvman]

Nice. Thanks for the report.

Coming "over the top" results from a lot of different errors, but one of the most common is beginning to spin your shoulders (open the shoulders, rotate the shoulders) immediately at the start of the downswing. As soon as that happens, it's really hard to correct it on the way down. It involves a lot of machinations with your shoulders getting tight, etc., etc., all of which are bad news for your swing.

To me the key is to start the downswing with the hands starting straight down and the shoulders remaining quiet. It only takes a fraction of a second. Check out the very short video "Downswing theory with Julie Yang" by Malaska. It's only a two-minute video and the meat of it starts at about one minute in. There's about a 15-second section in there that you can watch over and over again until you internalize what he is saying. I think this will help you a great deal. The other video I really like from Malaska that relates to this is called something like "The tiny difference between off and on" and it has Margarita Ramos in it. It is slightly over 6 minutes long but gives you a nice drill that will help.

Also check out "The 2 o'clock drill" video by Bobby Lopez if you haven't already. It addresses the exact same topic in a slightly different way.


All of these will help to keep you from coming across the ball so much.

[Turk]

For me, I get in trouble when my swing plane gets too flat at the top of the backswing. There's no room to drop my hands back down into the slot because they're too close to my body, so one of two things happens: 1) I spin out and smother a low screaming hook down the third base line, or 2) feel it coming, slide my hips left in an attempt to salvage the shot, and block a lazy fly ball deep into the seats down the first base line. Alas, this violates one of the cardinal rules to become a consistent player, which is to build a swing and create a ball flight pattern that always avoids the danger on one side of the hole or the other.

So my key is to bring my hands as high as I can and reach down the target line during the backswing, pause at the top, then just slowly uncoil back down the line, nice and smooth and effortless like Easy Ernie Els. I've never really thought about my hands once the downswing starts. I'm just trying to see the club hit the ball at the *exact* moment of impact and see it start down the target line.

[rthomas]

Ok, So I bought the Taylormade M1 and I have to say I love it. I futzed around with the settings for a couple weeks and ultimately set it on a very forgiving setting. I went from 10.5 to 12.5 loft and have the front/back weight all the way back. I didn't change the side weight to favor a draw or a fade.

I use the same set up. And I am hitting a lot longer because I am hitting so much straighter. It's not magic but about as close as I've seen. I am in love with my driver again.

[left_hook_lacey]

The Good: I played this weekend and shot a personal best 86 after not playing for months(previous best was a 90). Left lots of easy strokes out there, but got lucky a few times too, so I guess that evens out. My chipping and putting are much improved because that's really the only thing I've been able to practice around the house. A few minutes here, a few minutes there. My driver is, 250-300 consistently only swinging about 3/4 power. I'm trying to work on getting that feeling of reaching back(hand shake) and the face opens up, and then closing that down at the same position on the other side of my body with the club face closed.

The Bad: While I'm driving consistently 250-300 yards every time, I've developed a massive slice that I can't control no matter what I try. I shot the 86 because I made the decision to give up trying to "fix" it during the round and just started playing it. There was a short 310 par 4, slight right bend, that has deep bunkers guarding the front.. I aimed right at the spot where the fairway begins to bend to the right, cleared the bunkers and it rolled 2 feet from the green.

The Ugly: Missed a couple of 2 foot putts that were straight in. Can't explain that one.


The score card was weird. I didn't have that many pars, it was birdie, bogie, or double bogey.

Most of my problems came on the front nine, when I refused to aim left and play the slice. I was hitting out of the trees or from another fairway on multiple occasions so I wasted a lot of shots with punch outs to get back in the fairway.

I hit my irons pretty good. Can't remember any major mis-hits. I did notice my divots were point way way left of my target line sometimes, and on those the ball was always landing right of the target. I assume whatever it is I'm doing to make my driver slice so bad is still happening with my irons, it's just less pronounced.

Either way, golf has bitten me again and I find myself wanting to get back out there again, especially since the weather is about to cool off. Still want to get into a routine, just gotta make the time.

[rsvman]

86 in the face of a slice is pretty darned good.

I'd kill to be able to hit a driver 275.

If your divots go way left and the ball goes right, it means two things are happening: 1) you are coming across the ball ("over the top," "across the line," etc.), and 2) your clubface is open at the time of impact. When you start the downswing, make sure your shoulders don't rotate right away, and pull the club as much as possible straight down. Make sure that you aren't taking the club back too far inside on the backswing. On the backswing, when your arms get to parallel with the ground, the clubhead should be OUTSIDE of your hands (farther away from you). I bet in your case the clubhead is INSIDE (i.e., "behind" your hands). If it is, correct that. This goes a long ways toward getting rid of the "over the top" move.

[Indoor66]

The Good: I played this weekend and shot a personal best 86 after not playing for months(previous best was a 90). Left lots of easy strokes out there, but got lucky a few times too, so I guess that evens out. My chipping and putting are much improved because that's really the only thing I've been able to practice around the house. A few minutes here, a few minutes there. My driver is, 250-300 consistently only swinging about 3/4 power. I'm trying to work on getting that feeling of reaching back(hand shake) and the face opens up, and then closing that down at the same position on the other side of my body with the club face closed.

The Bad: While I'm driving consistently 250-300 yards every time, I've developed a massive slice that I can't control no matter what I try. I shot the 86 because I made the decision to give up trying to "fix" it during the round and just started playing it. There was a short 310 par 4, slight right bend, that has deep bunkers guarding the front.. I aimed right at the spot where the fairway begins to bend to the right, cleared the bunkers and it rolled 2 feet from the green.

The Ugly: Missed a couple of 2 foot putts that were straight in. Can't explain that one.


The score card was weird. I didn't have that many pars, it was birdie, bogie, or double bogey.

Most of my problems came on the front nine, when I refused to aim left and play the slice. I was hitting out of the trees or from another fairway on multiple occasions so I wasted a lot of shots with punch outs to get back in the fairway.

I hit my irons pretty good. Can't remember any major mis-hits. I did notice my divots were point way way left of my target line sometimes, and on those the ball was always landing right of the target. I assume whatever it is I'm doing to make my driver slice so bad is still happening with my irons, it's just less pronounced.

Either way, golf has bitten me again and I find myself wanting to get back out there again, especially since the weather is about to cool off. Still want to get into a routine, just gotta make the time.

Slow down your swing. Work a 1 -2 -3 -4 cadence to keep a consistent tempo.

[CDu]

I took lessons at GolfTEC. It's a franchise that uses video and motion sensors. I'm a visual learner. On my first lesson, my instructor told me I wasn't turning and only using my arms. I didn't believe him until he replayed the last swing. Once I saw it, I corrected it. The lesson is uploaded to their app so you can rewatch it whenever you want, even while practicing on your own. Not sure if one is near you, but I would guess there is.

I've had two lessons in my life (both this year), and both were really helpful. They sound very similar to yours. First lesson, the instructor filmed my swing, and pointed out that after making a good backswing, things went downhill (and not in a good way). I was all arms, and not getting nearly enough body turn. I suspect that's the most common mistake of the average golfer: not letting your core and the club do all the work for you.

I was amazed when working through things how much better the ball would jump off my club with a better swing and way less effort. Keeping a good radius throughout the swing, having my hands in the right place, and getting good core rotation all the way through my follow-through. I'm still not a good golfer, but I'm much less bad. Basically, I've gone from a 105-115 golfer to an 85-95 golfer off just those two lessons and subsequent practice. Getting the ball consistently in the air with the irons makes a huge difference in your score at the entry level.

Next step for me is, just as Zeke suggested, working on the short game. For me, I give away way too many shots within 20 yards of the pin. If I can tighten up that part of my game, I can hopefully get down into the high-70s/low-80s. But that is a matter of practice, practice, practice.

[left_hook_lacey]

86 in the face of a slice is pretty darned good.

I'd kill to be able to hit a driver 275.

If your divots go way left and the ball goes right, it means two things are happening: 1) you are coming across the ball ("over the top," "across the line," etc.), and 2) your clubface is open at the time of impact. When you start the downswing, make sure your shoulders don't rotate right away, and pull the club as much as possible straight down. Make sure that you aren't taking the club back too far inside on the backswing. On the backswing, when your arms get to parallel with the ground, the clubhead should be OUTSIDE of your hands (farther away from you). I bet in your case the clubhead is INSIDE (i.e., "behind" your hands). If it is, correct that. This goes a long ways toward getting rid of the "over the top" move.

That is exactly what I do, almost intentionally I would say. My swing feels more like around the waist than anything. I think I slowly developed that habit over the years thinking it was helping me come more from the inside. I also don't know what to do with my hands around impact. I hear/read so many different things. Rotate your right wrist(for RH) through impact so it's facing up towards the sky when waist high the follow through, don't rotate your wrist at all, that's called flipping or casting, if you're swing is correct, there is no need to do anything with your wrists....etc. etc.

[cato]

Slow down your swing. Work a 1 -2 -3 -4 cadence to keep a consistent tempo.

Where are the 1-2-3 and 4?

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

Slow down your swing. Work a 1 -2 -3 -4 cadence to keep a consistent tempo.

Many things contribute to a slice. Swinging too fast and getting ahead of the ball. Poor takeaway, i.e., picking the club up instead of tacking it back. I try to remember to get my weight a little toward my heels by wiggling my toes and focusing on sweeping the club back. It seems to help me. And yes slowing the heck down usually does wonders!