Clemson and inclusivity

[duke79]

There is a guy in my office who always wants to go to lunch with me, but gets on the phone or something at the time we're supposed to go. Consistently. I give him five minutes, then just go without him.

Rotary, I give about two minutes and then leave without my habitually late partner.

I think it depends in large part on the severity of the result if you just leave. I wouldn't do that for a long trip, or to someone I didn't know well enough to look them in the eye and say -- "next time, be on time dammit"

I live my work life by tenths of a billable hour (unfortunately). Time is money. Standing around costs me money. AND scalds my scallions.

My primary care physician (whom I like and respect as a doctor) is chronically and unbelievably late in meeting his scheduled appointments at his office. An appointment at 10:00 AM means he MIGHT see you at 11:30 AM (and I've waited more than 90 minutes past my scheduled appointment time quite a few times). It does irritate me but there are few other primary care doctors in the rural area in which I live, so I don't have a lot of choices to switch to. Now, I always call ahead before any appointment and ask his scheduler how far behind he is and then I adjust my time for showing up accordingly. But I still have to wait for quite a while sometimes. The only good news is that, when you do finally get to see him, he spends a lot of time with you and is very thorough in his diagnosis and recommended treatments (which explains how he gets so far behind every day on his appointment schedule). I think doctors are one of the few professions in our society where they can get away with treating their customers (patients) in this manner and still succeed. I would be out of business fast if I made my clients wait for 90 minutes or 2 hours every time they showed up for a meeting with me.

I also have a close friend who went to Duke and he is chronically late, especially when flying. He flies all the time for his job and I think it is a game for him to see how close he can cut it in getting to the airport and still make his flight (even in the pre-911 days when security was almost non-existent). Almost every time I have ever flown with him for golf or skiing trips (and we travel together to the airport), we have either missed our scheduled flight or just barely made it on the plane. Drives me up the wall and I have basically stopped flying places with him.

[OldPhiKap]

I also have a close friend who went to Duke and he is chronically late, especially when flying. He flies all the time for his job and I think it is a game for him to see how close he can cut it in getting to the airport and still make his flight (even in the pre-911 days when security was almost non-existent). Almost every time I have ever flown with him for golf or skiing trips (and we travel together to the airport), we have either missed our scheduled flight or just barely made it on the plane. Drives me up the wall and I have basically stopped flying places with him.

I have sat around plenty of airports waiting for my flight, but I have never missed one because I waited too long to leave for the airport.

I don't need that kind of tension. And the fact that a person would put someone else to that stress because they can't get their crap together really waxes my watermelons.

[Tripping William]

I am as hyper-punctual as any person not-my-wife can be. But I do have a couple of (Blue) Devil's Advocate thoughts on the subject. Apologies if they are sort of stream-of consciousness.

(1) Time is a human construct.

(2) So is culture.

(3) With due respect to fuse as the OP (and, especially, to his impeccable tastes in beer, which can be discerned from probably dozens (hundreds?) of posts in a whole-nother thread), I think what Clemson is pointing out is that it's more than just "some cultures value [punctuality] differently" or that some "approach timeliness differently," it's that some cultures actually take an entirely different approach altogether to the human construct of time.

(4) As a younger man, I spent a couple of years living in Bolivia. Sometimes in the city (LaPaz), but often in rural areas and occasionally among the indigenous. I know I'm generalizing a bit, but the indigenous people of Bolivia are the *least* "egocentric" people I have encountered, and among the least likely to engage in a "power play" of any kind. But, they do approach time differently. Having a clock is rare; having a watch even more rare. The idea of a daily appointment schedule is foreign to them; when you say, "I'll be there at 9:00 a.m.," they'll only be guessing about what "time" 9:00 a.m. actually represents. I do not believe it is disrespect, and I do not believe it is a lacking of courtesy. I believe it is some formative part of their culture, informed by eons of their own unique set of experiences and interactions with the world they know. Many with whom I spent time used to refer to the Bolivians' sense of timeliness as "hora Boliviana" (basically, "Bolivian time"), but that phrase really had more meaning packed into it than just a habitual tardiness.

(5) This notion isn't unique to indigenous Bolivians. One of my law partners (a woman, raised in the South) once told me that her mother thought it was incredibly rude to arrive to a social engagement "right on time" (i.e., the hour when the invitation said the function was scheduled to begin), in part because the host was likely under stress scrambling to get everything ready for the party to begin. That comment to me seems like it informs the idea of being "fashionably late," but also reflects a circumstance when a *lack* of punctuality might even be *more* courteous. But if different American social situations can call for different approaches to punctuality (all equally acceptable, in the right moment), then why can't different cultures do so on (roughly) equal footing with a Tom Coughlin-esque approach? Perhaps they can, but only with the kind of cultural awareness (deeply but maybe not ever fully understood by "the outsider") that Clemson seems like it's wanting to foster.

(6) A culture in which hyper-awareness of time is important has plainly prevailed, around what we call "the industrialized world" anyway. There may be some correlation there.

Just some food for thought. My ruminations are worth what you've paid for them. Back to my six-minute increments . . . .

[fuse]

It may be time for me to start doing the same. What's your "appropriate length of time"?

Business hierachy blind, 5 minutes for a 30 minute meeting, 10 for an hour long meeting.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

People who are habitually late drive me nuts. It's like their time is more important than mine. It really frosts my fritters.

(And I don't like frosted fritters).

Then don't make friends/coworkers out of millenials - they will make you bonkers.

I own a small business, and promptness is one of my only pet peeves. My thought has always been "if you have trouble being on time, try being 15 minutes early. As someone who spent their childhood dealing with chronically late parents, I am obsessive about timeliness.

I understand that extenuating circumstances occur in life; you get locked out, your dog escapes, you are ill, your kid can't find his shoes... what have you. Life happens. But not twice a week.

//my soapbox...\\

Edit: I might print this thread out for my employees. This will quickly become my favorite off season thread.

[Reilly]

I sorta see promptness as a sign of respecting other people's time. Basic courtesy ...

Totally agree. I'm obsessive about being on time; hate the thought of being late, of disrespecting others that way. I'm always thinking of the travel time, and building in a cushion.

... Do you think there is a direct correlation between your friend's chronic tardiness and friendship commitment? ...

No. He's a truly loyal, stand-up person. Really terrific. I'd call him for any jam I might ever find myself in -- if I needed emotional support, financial support, help in any way, whatever. And he'd provide it -- he'd just be late in doing so. One of those persons whose life is perpetually out of control. It took me years to learn, but eventually I quit expecting success at a made plan being pulled off, and I quit making what would be a reasonable plans for 95% of the population to fulfill, but would be a challenge for him. And I learned to make "rolling plans" -- we'll meet here at noon, and if not there then, then at X at 1 pm ...

[Wander]

I had a boss who was routinely very late. A very important client referred to my boss as "the late Bill Smith."

Please don't go to any weddings he's hosting.

[OldPhiKap]

I work with a lawyer who is always late. The joke is that when the Grim Reaper comes for him, he'll somehow get a continuance.

[devildeac]

I work with a lawyer who is always late. The joke is that when the Grim Reaper comes for him, he'll somehow get a continuance.

Somewhere, sometime, somehow, there's a unc joke in there...

[Bob Green]

People thinking that because they love their dogs and kids, you must love them, too - even when they are barking/screaming, running around loose, jumping on you, pooping in your yard, etc.

I dislike dogs. I strongly dislike dogs. I believe the word hate could even come into play here. Multiple people have flat out told me I am weird because I don't love their stupid dog.

And before anyone jumps to false conclusions, no I am not a cat person I hate them equally.

If you have to have a pet, I recommend a fish in a bowl.

In an attempt to keep the negative replies to a minimum, I'll refrain from commenting on other people's [redacted seven letter word] kids.

[devildeac]

My primary care physician (whom I like and respect as a doctor) is chronically and unbelievably late in meeting his scheduled appointments at his office. An appointment at 10:00 AM means he MIGHT see you at 11:30 AM (and I've waited more than 90 minutes past my scheduled appointment time quite a few times). It does irritate me but there are few other primary care doctors in the rural area in which I live, so I don't have a lot of choices to switch to. Now, I always call ahead before any appointment and ask his scheduler how far behind he is and then I adjust my time for showing up accordingly. But I still have to wait for quite a while sometimes. The only good news is that, when you do finally get to see him, he spends a lot of time with you and is very thorough in his diagnosis and recommended treatments (which explains how he gets so far behind every day on his appointment schedule). I think doctors are one of the few professions in our society where they can get away with treating their customers (patients) in this manner and still succeed. I would be out of business fast if I made my clients wait for 90 minutes or 2 hours every time they showed up for a meeting with me.

I also have a close friend who went to Duke and he is chronically late, especially when flying. He flies all the time for his job and I think it is a game for him to see how close he can cut it in getting to the airport and still make his flight (even in the pre-911 days when security was almost non-existent). Almost every time I have ever flown with him for golf or skiing trips (and we travel together to the airport), we have either missed our scheduled flight or just barely made it on the plane. Drives me up the wall and I have basically stopped flying places with him.

Regarding the physician story, in our group of 4, it's very interesting that 2 of us are fairly punctual to start and finish our morning and/or afternoon clinics and the other 2 are consistently 30-60 minutes late to arrive and/or finish. What destroys my schedule is the following: a couple calls from the hospital/other physicians, a couple calls from the front desk and/or one of our diagnostic technicians, a long-winded patient or three (no offense, I like almost all of my patients) with multiple inquiries outside my specialty and/or that day's problem, and an acute (not necessarily emergency) problem that requires several medication/diagnostic changes and explanations.

Not meant to be excuses, just possible explanations. I do agree however, that 60-120 minutes late repetitively is seriously confounding/frustrating.

[Indoor66]

I dislike dogs. I strongly dislike dogs. I believe the word hate could even come into play here. Multiple people have flat out told me I am weird because I don't love their stupid dog.

And before anyone jumps to false conclusions, no I am not a cat person I hate them equally.

If you have to have a pet, I recommend a fish in a bowl.

In an attempt to keep the negative replies to a minimum, I'll refrain from commenting on other people's [redacted seven letter word] kids.

I won't even raise the issue of your lawn. 😂😁😎

[Jeffrey]

There is a guy in my office who always wants to go to lunch with me, but gets on the phone or something at the time we're supposed to go. Consistently. I give him five minutes, then just go without him.

I live my work life by tenths of a billable hour (unfortunately). Time is money. Standing around costs me money. AND scalds my scallions.

My friend is usually 20-45 minutes late. He also gets on the phone, or something, at the time he is suppose to meet me, or most anyone else. We are mutual friends with a prominent musician and a highly successful artist. He is always on time for only those two.

Guess his occupation? An attorney who owns multiple title companies.

[CrazyNotCrazie]

Regarding the physician story, in our group of 4, it's very interesting that 2 of us are fairly punctual to start and finish our morning and/or afternoon clinics and the other 2 are consistently 30-60 minutes late to arrive and/or finish. What destroys my schedule is the following: a couple calls from the hospital/other physicians, a couple calls from the front desk and/or one of our diagnostic technicians, a long-winded patient or three (no offense, I like almost all of my patients) with multiple inquiries outside my specialty and/or that day's problem, and an acute (not necessarily emergency) problem that requires several medication/diagnostic changes and explanations.

Not meant to be excuses, just possible explanations. I do agree however, that 60-120 minutes late repetitively is seriously confounding/frustrating.

My internist is also routinely very behind schedule. I appreciate that he really takes the time to talk to me, but sitting in his waiting room for a long time is painful, particularly as someone who hates being late. And the one time I was two minutes late I was getting calls that I would lose my appointment, only to find out when I got there that he was 15 minutes behind.

I respect the right of doctors to maximize their revenues, but building in a few 15 minute buffers during the day would really help. The time would mainly be used to catch up if falling behind, but also for squeezing in real last minute emergencies. Worst case, if they are on time and there are no emergencies, they can do paperwork, read journal articles, take the next patient early if they are there, or post on DBR.

[sagegrouse]

People who are habitually late drive me nuts. It's like their time is more important than mine. It really frosts my fritters.

(And I don't like frosted fritters).

Don't plan on working in Brazil, although I should defer to Dukie in Brasil for an expert opinion.

[OldPhiKap]

Don't plan on working in Brazil, although I should defer to Dukie in Brasil for an expert opinion.

True, that would really dry my feijoada.

I get foreign cultures, and their views of time. I love Italy for example, and when I go there I factor in their concept of time. Well acquainted with "island time" in, well, about any island (foreign and domestic). I'm Referring to my daily existence when talking about my peeve.

[devildeac]

My internist is also routinely very behind schedule. I appreciate that he really takes the time to talk to me, but sitting in his waiting room for a long time is painful, particularly as someone who hates being late. And the one time I was two minutes late I was getting calls that I would lose my appointment, only to find out when I got there that he was 15 minutes behind.

I respect the right of doctors to maximize their revenues, but building in a few 15 minute buffers during the day would really help. The time would mainly be used to catch up if falling behind, but also for squeezing in real last minute emergencies. Worst case, if they are on time and there are no emergencies, they can do paperwork, read journal articles, take the next patient early if they are there, or post on DBR.

Guilty.

[-jk]

My internist is also routinely very behind schedule. I appreciate that he really takes the time to talk to me, but sitting in his waiting room for a long time is painful, particularly as someone who hates being late. And the one time I was two minutes late I was getting calls that I would lose my appointment, only to find out when I got there that he was 15 minutes behind.

I respect the right of doctors to maximize their revenues, but building in a few 15 minute buffers during the day would really help. The time would mainly be used to catch up if falling behind, but also for squeezing in real last minute emergencies. Worst case, if they are on time and there are no emergencies, they can do paperwork, read journal articles, take the next patient early if they are there, or post on DBR.

I always schedule my doc visits as early in the day as possible...

-jk

[Reilly]

I dislike dogs. I strongly dislike dogs. I believe the word hate could even come into play here ...

Great. So what started as a nice communal gripe-fest about the tardy is now going to end with me putting Bob Green on ignore for eternity. Will the fallout from this most recent disappointing season never end?

[devildeac]

Great. So what started as a nice communal gripe-fest about the tardy is now going to end with me putting Bob Green on ignore for eternity. Will the fallout from this most recent disappointing season never end?

Go make yourself one of these. Messy, but still cheaper than therapy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peanut...jelly_sandwich