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  1. #1

    ANA - LPGA Penalty on Lexi Thompson

    The USGA, LPGA and PGA need to get reasonable.

    I think each group should have a scorer who is also a rules official and someone who knows the rules very well. When the round is over then the scorer can attest and it is a done deal. Letting TV viewers change the score the next day is totally ridiculous.

    I was at the first two rounds of the ANA. They were calling for rules officials all over the place and delaying play. I think I know most of the rules. I can assure you that Julie Inkster knew the rule when she hit it into the water but still she called for an official and everyone waits

    Let the rules official/scorer figure it out and if they can't., call in a head honcho. But don't delay play waiting for someone when the players know the rule and more importantly don't change the score the next day because of something on TV.

    SoCal

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    New Orleans, Louisiana
    I can tell you're upset about this because you forgot to tell us anything about Lexi Thompson and what happened to her. Here's the story for people who want some context.

    Lexi Thompson’s four scorecards from the 2017 ANA Inspiration read 69-67-67-67. That would be 18 under if you’re scoring home, and it should have been enough to win the first LPGA major of 2017 by four strokes.

    But someone emailed the LPGA on Sunday about a moment that happened in Thompson’s Saturday round, and she was docked four strokes, which turned her Saturday 67 into a 71.

    Thompson fell to 14 under and eventually lost in a playoff to So Yeon Ryu. This was Ryu’s second major title.

  3. #3

    The two strokes for signing the card was the real problem

    Once a day is done, it's done. It's bad enough to penalize her after the fact for a minor (but real) infraction, but it's worse to penalize her for the scorecard error when no one at the course knew it happened until the USGA checked it's e-mail.

    If you are going to allow callers and e-mailers to be rules officials, you have to have a point where a score becomes concrete. If the sanctioning organization can't make a ruling prior to the start of the next round, at least the scorecard penalty, if not the whole thing, should be waived

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Northwest NC
    This is wrong on so many levels. I cannot for the life of me understand why the morons who make golf's rules do not put an end to this. A player in any sport should expect to play by the rules and calls they get while on the playing field but you cannot retroactively go back and punish someone later. It's just stupid. Not to mention telling her on the 12th hole on a Sunday at a major! How is she supposed to concentrate after that? They might as well have told her that her dog just died in a house fire.

    Golf's popularity is dwindling and idiotic events such as this are not helping. Simplify the rules and make the game more accessible. Casual fans or average folks that see stuff like this are just turned off by it and it is hurting the game.
    "The future ain't what it used to be."

  5. #5
    Can we call the NCAA and suggest that Maye walked? How about that Boozer got fouled?

    I am excited about the opportunities this offers us armchair refs.

  6. #6
    Others have expressed the outrage and commented on the idiocy that rules Golf, for me, they have lost me as fan. I started playing seriously in 1950. To see what goes on today is ridiculous. The players are like zombies, there is no momentary joy displayed, they allow TV viewers to make rules decisions. It is meaningless foolishness now. I have quit the game and no longer watch on TV. What other sport allows fans to point out rules violations and then enforces penalties? Do fans make foul calls in basketball, to they get to challenge a strike as being out of the strike zone in baseball?

    All of the replay, delay, over examination and self flagellation that associated with sports becomes quite boring and irritating. Let's get back to playing the game, officiating the game and living with human imperfection.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Deeetroit City
    Quote Originally Posted by Chicago 1995 View Post
    Once a day is done, it's done. It's bad enough to penalize her after the fact for a minor (but real) infraction, but it's worse to penalize her for the scorecard error when no one at the course knew it happened until the USGA checked it's e-mail.

    If you are going to allow callers and e-mailers to be rules officials, you have to have a point where a score becomes concrete. If the sanctioning organization can't make a ruling prior to the start of the next round, at least the scorecard penalty, if not the whole thing, should be waived
    Totally agree.

    The scorecard was correct when she signed it. If the USGA hadn't levied the penalty by the time she signed the scorecard - and notified her of the penalty - then the scorecard was correct and the additional penalty draconian.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    New York City
    Quote Originally Posted by BD80 View Post
    Totally agree.

    The scorecard was correct when she signed it. If the USGA hadn't levied the penalty by the time she signed the scorecard - and notified her of the penalty - then the scorecard was correct and the additional penalty draconian.
    This really is the part that's absurd. I looked at the video and can see the argument that she put the ball in a different spot, but having played a lot of golf, it is literally impossible to put the ball in the exact same spot when you mark it. How far off constitutes a violation? 1 millimeter, 3 millimeters? Sometimes the ball won't stay at rest in a particular spot due to an imperfection in the green, so maybe you move it a half a centimeter so it doesn't rotate. Is that a violation, should it be? I don't know. What I do know is that it is ridiculous to penalize her for signing a scorecard that was deemed to incorrect after she signed it. There is an illogical-ness and unfairness here that is so hard to fathom.
    Singler is IRON

    I STILL GOT IT! -- Ryan Kelly, March 2, 2013

  9. #9
    The additional 2 stroke penalty was absurd. I can't believe that it used to be even worse. Until recently, signing an incorrect scorecard was an automatic disqualification. So at least the new rule saved Lexi $250k.

    By the way, the person that emailed the LPGA about this really needs to get a life. The ball was moved only slightly and it was basically a tap in anyway. I would guess if you looked every time a player marks a ball, that ball is moved at least that much 30% or more of the time. It's not fair to the leaders, who are on TV more, to have someone eating potato chips at home calling with a rules violation.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Northwest NC
    Quote Originally Posted by nmduke2001 View Post
    The additional 2 stroke penalty was absurd. I can't believe that it used to be even worse. Until recently, signing an incorrect scorecard was an automatic disqualification. So at least the new rule saved Lexi $250k.

    By the way, the person that emailed the LPGA about this really needs to get a life. The ball was moved only slightly and it was basically a tap in anyway. I would guess if you looked every time a player marks a ball, that ball is moved at least that much 30% or more of the time. It's not fair to the leaders, who are on TV more, to have someone eating potato chips at home calling with a rules violation.
    The signing an incorrect card is ridiculous. Why do they even have to sign it anyway? If they are going to go behind them and tell them what they shot after the fact, then why not just let them play and have someone assigned to the group to keep the official score?

    It's obvious this is a very bad rule. Why can't anyone who has a say use some common sense and ban the couch potatos from calling in and deem the round over when it's over? Going back and changing scores later is mind boggling to me.
    "The future ain't what it used to be."

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Deeetroit City
    I wonder how the whistleblower feels?

    Sadly, he's probably reveling in his 15 minutes of fame having cost a fellow American a Major Championship.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    New Orleans, Louisiana
    Quote Originally Posted by BD80 View Post
    I wonder how the whistleblower feels?
    An armchair sports fan who reaches into the TV and changes the outcome? He or she will never have to buy a drink on the Internet again.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Santa Clara, CA
    Quote Originally Posted by Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15 View Post
    How about that Boozer got fouled?
    Or that Duhon didn't foul on the steal before that? It still burns me up.

    Anyway, yes, this is a ridiculous process by golf. I wonder if weeks later, someone spots a problem and they can take away a trophy and award it to the 2nd place finisher?

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by kako View Post
    Or that Duhon didn't foul on the steal before that? It still burns me up.

    Anyway, yes, this is a ridiculous process by golf. I wonder if weeks later, someone spots a problem and they can take away a trophy and award it to the 2nd place finisher?
    Better cash that check quickly.😎

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Winston’Salem
    Quote Originally Posted by kako View Post
    Or that Duhon didn't foul on the steal before that? It still burns me up.

    Anyway, yes, this is a ridiculous process by golf. I wonder if weeks later, someone spots a problem and they can take away a trophy and award it to the 2nd place finisher?
    It's almost as bad as some bakery awarding a basketball "championship" 40-some-odd years after the season ended.
    "Amazing what a minute can do."

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Winston’Salem
    Brandel Chamblee was absolutely insufferable about this issue on The Golf Channel tonight. I suppose I shouldn't be surprised...
    "Amazing what a minute can do."

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Raleigh
    Meeks' mitt was on the end line on that "jump ball." Can someone please email the LPGA and see if they can have is overturned/nullified?
    [redacted] them and the horses they rode in on.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Hot'Lanta... home of the Falcons!
    Quote Originally Posted by Tripping William View Post
    Brandel Chamblee was absolutely insufferable about this issue on The Golf Channel tonight. I suppose I shouldn't be surprised...
    In what way? I would love to know what "the other side" says about an incident like this. There seems to be such unanimity about the absurdity of the whole thing.
    I don't know what you are doing right now, but if you aren't listening to the DBR Podcast, you're doing it wrong.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Winston’Salem
    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post
    In what way? I would love to know what "the other side" says about an incident like this. There seems to be such unanimity about the absurdity of the whole thing.
    Chamblee's position was that, in his view, what makes golf unique/special (and I think he may have sniffed & thrown his nose into the air when he said it, but don't hold me to that ) is that golf holds itself to a higher standard than other sports about rules infractions and self-policing. So, for him, the only thing that mattered was that an infraction did, in fact, occur (and I don't think anyone disputes this); the infraction was identified; and the infraction was penalized. The process of how and when the infraction was identified, and how and when the penalties were communicated, did not appear to trouble him in the slightest. If I'm recalling correctly, he said he would be okay pulling someone off the course on Saturday if that player's infraction on Thursday was later identified & it meant (once the penalty was assessed) that the player ended up actually missing the cut, rather than making the cut.

    Frank Nobilo, David Duval and Rich Lerner all expressed concerns about the process (the possibility that some Lexi-hater at home decides to call-in the infraction, but may have been less inclined to do so than if Lydia Ko had done the same thing because, well, he cheers for Lydia Ko) and the timing (if the end of a day's action isn't "final," why is the end of a four-day "final"?). Chamblee, in contrast, appeared to be having none of it.
    "Amazing what a minute can do."

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Hot'Lanta... home of the Falcons!
    Quote Originally Posted by Tripping William View Post
    Chamblee's position was that, in his view, what makes golf unique/special (and I think he may have sniffed & thrown his nose into the air when he said it, but don't hold me to that ) is that golf holds itself to a higher standard than other sports about rules infractions and self-policing. So, for him, the only thing that mattered was that an infraction did, in fact, occur (and I don't think anyone disputes this); the infraction was identified; and the infraction was penalized. The process of how and when the infraction was identified, and how and when the penalties were communicated, did not appear to trouble him in the slightest. If I'm recalling correctly, he said he would be okay pulling someone off the course on Saturday if that player's infraction on Thursday was later identified & it meant (once the penalty was assessed) that the player ended up actually missing the cut, rather than making the cut.

    Frank Nobilo, David Duval and Rich Lerner all expressed concerns about the process (the possibility that some Lexi-hater at home decides to call-in the infraction, but may have been less inclined to do so than if Lydia Ko had done the same thing because, well, he cheers for Lydia Ko) and the timing (if the end of a day's action isn't "final," why is the end of a four-day "final"?). Chamblee, in contrast, appeared to be having none of it.
    Thanks.

    To me there are two levels of stupid happening here.

    Level 1, which was discussed above, is the notion that fans at home can identify penalties and get the official pro sports organization to enforce them. It is pretty crazy, but there is a long golf tradition of that. I truly think there can be a reasonable debate about the merits of whether that makes sense.

    But level 2 is the additional penalty for signing an incorrect scorecard. That is the one that makes no sense at all to me. At the time the scorecard was signed, everyone (except one loser at home) thought it was correct. There was no effort to conceal or cheat in the scorecard signing. To add a second harsh penalty for an improper scorecard is just insane. That is the part that I think goes beyond the scope of a debate. How can anyone defend that rule?

    To put it in basketball terms: There are less than 2 minutes left in a college hoops game. Billy Basketballer is racing along the baseline in a tie game. He dishes a dazzling pass to Daryl Dunker who slams it through and gets fouled on the play. But, the officials go to the monitors and see that Billy touched the out of bounds line as he was dribbling along the baseline. As a result, the 2 points Daryl just scored are wiped out... but the officials also deem that by continuing to play after stepping out Billy committed a delay of game technical foul. They award 2 free throws and the ball to the opposing team and the technical is Billy's 5th foul so he is disqualified.

    That's about how insane this scorecard stuff is... except the penalty is muuuuch bigger. It is like awarding 10 free throws, not 2.

    -Jason "stupid, stupid, stupid... I can't wait until this someday happens in a men's major... the outrage will really get good when that happens" Evans
    I don't know what you are doing right now, but if you aren't listening to the DBR Podcast, you're doing it wrong.

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