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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Location
    Georgia

    Duke and true road games

    When can we hope to see Duke go back to scheduling a few non conference true road games (besides ACC/B1G Challenge)? I know a lot of the scheduling has to do with tickets and the amount of revenue the Duke brand brings to each non Cameron game. If they eventually do start scheduling a few true non conference road games, who would you like to see them play. I personally would like to see a few home and home match ups like the following:

    Duke vs. Butler
    Duke vs. Gonzaga
    Duke vs. Kentucky
    Duke vs. Kansas
    Duke vs. UCLA
    Duke vs. Villanova
    Duke vs. Maryland
    Duke vs. Harvard or Yale or Princeton

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Atlanta 'burbs
    Maryland?!? Not just nope. Hell nope.

    The rest on the list would be fine.

  3. #3
    yes, it would be fun. but if we add true road games, we need to subtract something. i'm a bigger fan of the big arena games, e.g. elon at greensboro or the champion's classic, which give our guys a chance to play in a tournament-like venue - probably good prep for tourney games and a small recruiting draw. we had about 5 of these this year. that leaves our cupcake home games of which there were around 6 this year. some believe those games are important for live practice (i don't agree, but appreciate that it's debatable). our game with maine this year drives me nuts - i can see scheduling a team we are very likely to beat, but maine was highly likely to be (and turned out to be) one of the worst teams in div 1. that feels like a useless endeavor.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    NC
    With the following:

    1. Champions Classic guaranteeing a neutral site game with one of Kansas, Kentucky, or Michigan St;
    2. The ACC/Big Ten basically guaranteeing us a marquee road game against a top Big Ten team every other year; and
    3. A neutral site game against another big-time school or two in the preseason tourneys

    We simply aren't going to schedule true road games in the non-conference schedule.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by CDu View Post
    With the following:

    1. Champions Classic guaranteeing a neutral site game with one of Kansas, Kentucky, or Michigan St;
    2. The ACC/Big Ten basically guaranteeing us a marquee road game against a top Big Ten team every other year; and
    3. A neutral site game against another big-time school or two in the preseason tourneys

    We simply aren't going to schedule true road games in the non-conference schedule.
    acknowledging that it isn't going to happen, the question of 'why?' remains. you highlight the some of the marquee stuff that is competing with it, but not the home game cupcakes. is it simply getting the iron dukes their fill of home games? keeping the boys from being on the road too much so that they can actually participate in college?

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    20 Minutes From The Heaven That Is Cameron Indoor
    Quote Originally Posted by TruBlu View Post
    Maryland?!? Not just nope. Hell nope.

    The rest on the list would be fine.
    For real. I cannot believe that anyone would put Maryland on a list like this. Our coaches families cannot even attend Maryland games anymore due to safety concerns which should tell one all they need to know.

    As to the topic, this is one of those areas where K long ago made a change and seems locked in on not doing it no matter what. We used to have home and home series with really good teams regularly with teams like Michigan, UCLA, LSU, Arizona, St Johns, Georgetown, Purdue, etc but have gone cold turkey on that for probably 15 to 20 years or more.

    Duke charges outrageous prices for tickets now, and unless we are in a year where we get a home game in the Big 10 Challenge, the number of big games at home is lame.


    I would love to have a home and home with Kansas since their arena is the second best college arena in the nation, but also teams like Gonzaga, Arizona, Villanova, Georgetown, etc. It would be great.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    NC
    Quote Originally Posted by bob blue devil View Post
    acknowledging that it isn't going to happen, the question of 'why?' remains. you highlight the some of the marquee stuff that is competing with it, but not the home game cupcakes. is it simply getting the iron dukes their fill of home games? keeping the boys from being on the road too much so that they can actually participate in college?
    Because the staff feels it has enough challenging games on the schedule.

    When the ACC added two more ACC schedule, the staff made the decision to keep the lighter games around exam time and winter break and to remove the challenging road game(s). They have apparently decided that it is preferable to not have additional major opponents added to the schedule.

    And I am fine with that. We get plenty of marquee matchups. More than almost anyone else in the country. And by adding two conference games (one on the road), the staff felt it better to take away two comparable games. Which meant the challenging non-con games.

    Such is a downstream consequence of increasing the conference schedule.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by CDu View Post
    Because the staff feels it has enough challenging games on the schedule.

    When the ACC added two more ACC schedule, the staff made the decision to keep the lighter games around exam time and winter break and to remove the challenging road game(s). They have apparently decided that it is preferable to not have additional major opponents added to the schedule.

    And I am fine with that. We get plenty of marquee matchups. More than almost anyone else in the country. And by adding two conference games (one on the road), the staff felt it better to take away two comparable games. Which meant the challenging non-con games.

    Such is a downstream consequence of increasing the conference schedule.
    not shooting the messenger, but meh. iron sharpens iron.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by CDu View Post
    With the following:

    1. Champions Classic guaranteeing a neutral site game with one of Kansas, Kentucky, or Michigan St;
    2. The ACC/Big Ten basically guaranteeing us a marquee road game against a top Big Ten team every other year; and
    3. A neutral site game against another big-time school or two in the preseason tourneys

    We simply aren't going to schedule true road games in the non-conference schedule.
    Now that K is done with USA basketball, team should add a Summer international trip as allowed by NCAA rules. For better or worse, K's always going to have young talent and that kind of bonding is good for the team on and off the court. Maui Invitational also provides similar dividends.

    I'd add a neutral site game in the time zone where the F4 will be played that season and/or at altitude if that's also applicable.

    Also makes sense to play a non-conference game on the ACCT court or at least play a game in that metro location.

    It's absurd that the ACC plays regular season conference games every day but Friday in a geographically far flung conference. Student has to be part of the equation. Build the schedule around recruiting, seeding, alumni enclaves, academic prioritities, and broadening the horizons for players.

    K schedules and prepares for March. Even the GOAT has quirks (short bench, scheduling, OADs) that annoy some fans, but none should be surprising at this point.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    NC
    Quote Originally Posted by FadedTackyShirt View Post
    Now that K is done with USA basketball, team should add a Summer international trip as allowed by NCAA rules. For better or worse, K's always going to have young talent and that kind of bonding is good for the team on and off the court. Maui Invitational also provides similar dividends.

    I'd add a neutral site game in the time zone where the F4 will be played that season and/or at altitude if that's also applicable.

    Also makes sense to play a non-conference game on the ACCT court or at least play a game in that metro location.

    It's absurd that the ACC plays regular season conference games every day but Friday in a geographically far flung conference. Student has to be part of the equation. Build the schedule around recruiting, seeding, alumni enclaves, academic prioritities, and broadening the horizons for players.

    K schedules and prepares for March. Even the GOAT has quirks (short bench, scheduling, OADs) that annoy some fans, but none should be surprising at this point.
    Worth noting that we played essentially a road game in Las Vegas this year. Same time zone as Phoenix. And we played two games in New York City. Not at the Barclay's, but the team was certainly familiar with the area.

    So the team actually did two of the things you were looking for.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by CDu View Post
    Worth noting that we played essentially a road game in Las Vegas this year. Same time zone as Phoenix. And we played two games in New York City. Not at the Barclay's, but the team was certainly familiar with the area.

    So the team actually did two of the things you were looking for.
    That's why I mentioned those caveats. With nearly 40 years of data points, K's pretty predictable on scheduling.

    ACCT returns to Brooklyn next season, a game at Barclay's or MSG will be on the schedule.

    2018 F4 will be in San Antonio. Highly likely to play in TX next season. Only questions are who/where: Spurs home floor, Houston, or Dallas? UT in Austin is not likely. Probably Rice on a neutral floor with a 2019 return game in CIS or CLT (pending 2019 ACCT reschedule).

    After seeing the reaction in Greenville, Duke's not playing @ Maryland or taking a taxing trip to Spokane to play the 'Zags. May play Butler on the Pacers home floor the next time the F4 is in Indy. F4s are in LA's and Vegas' future (new NFL stadiums). Future road/neutral games with UCLA, USC, and UNLV will be in the mix.

    Ivies' gyms are tiny: not playing in any of them, although OK for pre or post exam games in CIS. Same for Davidson's home gym, even if/when the ACCT returns to CLT.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    Atlanta
    Quote Originally Posted by ATSPENCE9 View Post
    When can we hope to see Duke go back to scheduling a few non conference true road games (besides ACC/B1G Challenge)? I know a lot of the scheduling has to do with tickets and the amount of revenue the Duke brand brings to each non Cameron game. If they eventually do start scheduling a few true non conference road games, who would you like to see them play. I personally would like to see a few home and home match ups like the following:

    Duke vs. Butler
    Duke vs. Gonzaga
    Duke vs. Kentucky
    Duke vs. Kansas
    Duke vs. UCLA
    Duke vs. Villanova
    Duke vs. Maryland
    Duke vs. Harvard or Yale or Princeton

    Maryland? No, they aren't worthy. Full stop.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by bob blue devil View Post
    acknowledging that it isn't going to happen, the question of 'why?' remains. you highlight the some of the marquee stuff that is competing with it, but not the home game cupcakes. is it simply getting the iron dukes their fill of home games? keeping the boys from being on the road too much so that they can actually participate in college?
    Just simple disinterest, imo. They don't think adding a marquee home-and-home opponent would help them. Would be fun for the fans, though, and I would love to have it...

  14. #14
    This is by far my least favorite part of Duke basketball. Not because I think it makes our team any worse or less prepared for the tournament, but because it's lame and not fun. And no, I don't want games that are "essentially" road games by being in the same metro area as our opponent - I want to play in the opposing team's home arena.

    I'd love it if every year we had:

    A home-and-home with Kansas (best non-Duke arena like Newton_14 said)
    A home-and-home with a west coast team like UCLA, Arizona, or Gonzaga (please, spare me the whining about how we had bad refs 25 years ago in Tucson)
    A home-and-home with a mid-major like Wichita State (please, spare me the bogus garbage argument about how there's "nothing to gain" from a game like this for a powerhouse)

    Along with the ACC/Big 10 challenge, that would give us 2 true road games in the non-conference a year. That's not some wildly unfeasible thing. Our schedule would be 100 times more fun.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Wander View Post
    This is by far my least favorite part of Duke basketball. Not because I think it makes our team any worse or less prepared for the tournament, but because it's lame and not fun. And no, I don't want games that are "essentially" road games by being in the same metro area as our opponent - I want to play in the opposing team's home arena.

    I'd love it if every year we had:

    A home-and-home with Kansas (best non-Duke arena like Newton_14 said)
    A home-and-home with a west coast team like UCLA, Arizona, or Gonzaga (please, spare me the whining about how we had bad refs 25 years ago in Tucson)
    A home-and-home with a mid-major like Wichita State (please, spare me the bogus garbage argument about how there's "nothing to gain" from a game like this for a powerhouse)

    Along with the ACC/Big 10 challenge, that would give us 2 true road games in the non-conference a year. That's not some wildly unfeasible thing. Our schedule would be 100 times more fun.
    To me, the constant complaining about playing "true road games" is lame.

    We play nine true road games a year in the most hostile arenas possible. You think a road game in November or December would toughen us up or prepare us more for postseason that our road games at UNC, Syracuse, Louisville, Virginia, Notre Dame, FSU and Miami?

    You don't play NCAA games on the road (even the South Carolina game in Greenville was not a true road game). K likes to re-create the atmosphere of NCAA games by playing good teams in neutral or semi-neutral arenas. And those soft early and mid-season games at home are important for team-building -- trying out marginal players and finding the best combinations in a low-pressure environment.

    For the record, Duke's SOS the last six years was 9, 10, 11, 6, 1 (in 2013) and 3. That's pretty solid.

    I'm fine with K's scheduling philosophy. The only thing about it that bothers me are the whiners is brings out.

    We'll just have to agree to disagree on this issue.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    Atlanta
    Quote Originally Posted by Olympic Fan View Post
    To me, the constant complaining about playing "true road games" is lame.

    We play nine true road games a year in the most hostile arenas possible. You think a road game in November or December would toughen us up or prepare us more for postseason that our road games at UNC, Syracuse, Louisville, Virginia, Notre Dame, FSU and Miami?

    You don't play NCAA games on the road (even the South Carolina game in Greenville was not a true road game). K likes to re-create the atmosphere of NCAA games by playing good teams in neutral or semi-neutral arenas. And those soft early and mid-season games at home are important for team-building -- trying out marginal players and finding the best combinations in a low-pressure environment.

    For the record, Duke's SOS the last six years was 9, 10, 11, 6, 1 (in 2013) and 3. That's pretty solid.

    I'm fine with K's scheduling philosophy. The only thing about it that bothers me are the whiners is brings out.

    We'll just have to agree to disagree on this issue.
    The way K does scheduling is fine with me.

    However, can we agree that the interests of the program aren't in perfect alignment with the fans entertainment desires?

    And BTW, how much entertainment and fun will those same fans have if Duke consistently loses those road games?

    I will say, playing at Michigan in December 91 against the FAB 5 was a wildly fun and entertaining game. I don't know that it would have been any less entertaining on a neutral court

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Olympic Fan View Post
    You think a road game in November or December would toughen us up or prepare us more for postseason that our road games at UNC, Syracuse, Louisville, Virginia, Notre Dame, FSU and Miami?
    Apparently, you didn't actually read my post that you quoted. I very explicitly said that my opinion has nothing to do with this. I think the idea that playing road games in the non-conference makes our team more prepared for the tournament is ridiculous.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Wander View Post
    Apparently, you didn't actually read my post that you quoted. I very explicitly said that my opinion has nothing to do with this. I think the idea that playing road games in the non-conference makes our team more prepared for the tournament is ridiculous.
    I didn't necessary direct that comment at you. Sorry if it seems that way. But if you check the thread you will see comments that suggest that road non-conference games do prepare the team better ... for instance: "iron sharpens iron"

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Earth
    I will offer my take to this annual topic. Duke schedules non-conference games 95% for recruiting and 5% for alumni. Contrary to what the media will say, Duke consistently schedules the maximum any P5 team will away from home. Next year will be a 6-6 or 7-6 split depending on whether the Nike Tournament in Portland has the maximum number of exempt games. We already know the vast majority of those 6 for next year:

    Nike: 3 in Portland v. TBD.
    @ St. John's
    v. MSU in Chicago
    Almost certainly @Big 10 for the next 2 years. We are +2 in home games in this series. The opponent won't be MSU, NW, or MD if Duke has any say. I think Purdue or MN are possibilities here. MI and WI don't match unless we start over in the home-away cycle.

    When the ACC moves to 20 after 1 more year, you can trim 1 A/N game from that list just like when the ACC moved to 18. The days of the UCLA and MI series are behind us thanks to TV and the ACC wanting conference inventory. That inventory for ESPN next year is pretty bad, and I would not be surprised to see another "transitional" schedule that repeats trips to Louisville and Syracuse for Duke.

    Instead of adjusting the non-conference schedule, the one change that is necessary is eliminating the road game NCAA scenario we had this year. Either go back to the pre-pod system or prohibit a 6+ seed from playing less than 200 miles from campus in the first 2 rounds. I firmly believe Duke plays this weekend if we play SC in 45 other states.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by duke2x View Post
    I will offer my take to this annual topic. Duke schedules non-conference games 95% for recruiting and 5% for alumni.

    When the ACC moves to 20 after 1 more year, you can trim 1 A/N game from that list just like when the ACC moved to 18. The days of the UCLA and MI series are behind us thanks to TV and the ACC wanting conference inventory. That inventory for ESPN next year is pretty bad, and I would not be surprised to see another "transitional" schedule that repeats trips to Louisville and Syracuse for Duke.
    Is/was there any discussion about tweaking the ACC conference schedule structure (i.e. adding/subtracting/shuffling fixed rivalries) when moving from 18 to 20?

    Duke/Carolina twice a year makes sense. Traditionalists might also like to play Wake and NCSU twice every year, but personally have never viewed either as a major rival and the annual Duke/Wake hoops/football pairing seems forced.

    Would prefer one fixed h/a rivalry (UNC) every year and then let the other five h/a series rotate. Get the Big 4 tradition, but would get unwieldy to create 3 artificial annual rivals for the newer conference schools.

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