Game of Thrones 2017 (no spoilers from leaks/theft!)

[Doria]

The second trailer for Season 7 is out, and it's amazing

Man, that was awesome! I couldn't wait, and watched it without my roommate. So cool. I think we might have to spring for a subscription to HBO through Amazon, just for the season.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Yowza... Something to get me through the sports doldrums.

[JasonEvans]

My son said yesterday, "only one more Sunday until Thrones is back!!"

And to get you through those interminable 10 days, here is a KFC commercial starring Hodor.

[JasonEvans]

2 days until the new season!!!!!

In the meantime, here is an interesting article on how one might defeat Daenerys’ dragons. It won't be easy.

Dr. Lauren Oliver, a Ph.D and soon-to-be assistant professor at University of North Georgia, has a couple of theories as to how smart opponents could use the cold weather of the North and a dragon’s natural biology against it. Though Game of Thrones’ dragons are thought to be magical, they do share a couple of similarities with some real-world reptiles (like continuing to grow larger throughout their lives) that could make them vulnerable to the cold.

“They would be almost useless in the North where temperatures are always freezing (especially now in winter) and there is little to no sunlight. So, they would likely not be able to produce fire and would probably die,” Oliver told me. “That’s a huge win for the Northerners... they just have to keep the battle in their own territory.”

-Jason "maybe one reason the White Walkers bring winter with them is to keep dragons from being effective against them" Evans

[El_Diablo]

2 days until the new season!!!!!

In the meantime, here is an interesting article on how one might defeat Daenerys’ dragons. It won't be easy.



-Jason "maybe one reason the White Walkers bring winter with them is to keep dragons from being effective against them" Evans

There are historical examples in the ASOIAF canon in which dragons were taken down by conventional weapons.

For example, Stormcloud and Vermax were killed in the Battle of the Gullet during the civil war known as the Dance of Dragons. The princes Aegon and Viserys Targaryen were being sent to Pentos to be fostered by the Prince of Pentos for their own safety. In late 129 AC, they boarded the Pentoshi cog Gay Abandon at Dragonstone. Aegon took his dragon Stormcloud with him, and Viserys took his dragon egg. In the Gullet, the cog and her escort ships were captured by a fleet of warships sailing under the banners of the Three Daughters. Aegon escaped by flying away on Stormcloud, and he managed to reach Dragonstone, clinging desperately to his dragon's neck. Stormcloud had been terribly wounded as he fled, however; when he arrived at Dragonstone stubs of countless arrows were embedded in his belly, and there was a scorpion bolt through his neck. Stormcloud died within the hour, hissing as the hot blood gushed black and smoking from his wounds. Flying from Dragonstone on his dragon Vermax to meet the enemy fleet, Prince Jacaerys swept down upon a line of Lysene galleys. The sailors had fought dragons during the War for the Stepstones, so their captains directed their spears and arrows against Jacaerys himself. One ship caught on fire and then another, however. When the dragons Silverwing, Sheepstealer, Seasmoke, and Vermithor joined Vermax from the Dragonmont, the line of enemy warships shattered as one galley after another was destroyed or turned away. Vermax flew too low, however, and crashed down into the sea, with a differing accounts of the cause: some say the dragon was wounded from a crossbow bolt to the eye; others say it was pulled down by a grapnel. Either way, survivors of the battle recounted that the injured dragon struggled in the rigging of a burning galley and sank with it. Prince Jacaerys leapt free, but was killed by Myrish crossbowmen.

Several other dragons were killed by conventional weapons (e.g., spears) in the storming of the Dragonpit in 130 AC.

[luburch]

My guess is that there are some Ice Dragons with the White Walkers..

[Wander]

My guess is that there are some Ice Dragons with the White Walkers..

Do they have the budget to do huge ice dragon vs fire dragon fights? Seems like CGI budget has been an issue in recent seasons.

Dany and the dragons are too powerful right now to be interesting, even against (or especially against, given the fire weakness) the undead army. Something has to change. Of course, the Dany dragon army isn't too powerful to be interesting if they're bad guys... other possibilities are that some of her factions betray her or that they take heavy losses on the sea from Euron.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

I absolutely cannot wait.

[El_Diablo]

Do they have the budget to do huge ice dragon vs fire dragon fights? Seems like CGI budget has been an issue in recent seasons.

The budget for Season 6 was over $100 million--they should be able to swing it.

[JNort]

If I'm Cersei I make a deal with Euron Grejoy, he helps me defeat Deanarys and I help him take part of the North plus he gets ports up and down the coast of westeros.

He lends his fleet which is supposedly gonna be the greatest ever seen and meets Dany out at sea where her Dothraki and Unsullied army are going to be near useless. Of course attempting to take out one of those dragons would be nice but if you don't it's no big deal as of yet. Take out as many of her ships and army as possible. As he does this I would march south to Dorne and conquer them and meet Dany as she attempts to make land fall there to wipe out the rest of her troops.

In both of those scenarios I wouldn't commit a tremendous force since you would have the tactical advantage and it should be just a killing field for your troops until her dragons wipe you out. Worry about her dragons later, take out her army first since you can't get to her dragons first.

Yeah she's got dragons but she wouldn't even want to take Westeros with only them. They can die by conventional means and catapults.

[LasVegas]

If I'm Cersei I make a deal with Euron Grejoy, he helps me defeat Deanarys and I help him take part of the North plus he gets ports up and down the coast of westeros.

He lends his fleet which is supposedly gonna be the greatest ever seen and meets Dany out at sea where her Dothraki and Unsullied army are going to be near useless. Of course attempting to take out one of those dragons would be nice but if you don't it's no big deal as of yet. Take out as many of her ships and army as possible. As he does this I would march south to Dorne and conquer them and meet Dany as she attempts to make land fall there to wipe out the rest of her troops.

In both of those scenarios I wouldn't commit a tremendous force since you would have the tactical advantage and it should be just a killing field for your troops until her dragons wipe you out. Worry about her dragons later, take out her army first since you can't get to her dragons first.

Yeah she's got dragons but she wouldn't even want to take Westeros with only them. They can die by conventional means and catapults.

And then the white walkers destroy you.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

If I'm Cersei I make a deal with Euron Grejoy, he helps me defeat Deanarys and I help him take part of the North plus he gets ports up and down the coast of westeros.

He lends his fleet which is supposedly gonna be the greatest ever seen and meets Dany out at sea where her Dothraki and Unsullied army are going to be near useless. Of course attempting to take out one of those dragons would be nice but if you don't it's no big deal as of yet. Take out as many of her ships and army as possible. As he does this I would march south to Dorne and conquer them and meet Dany as she attempts to make land fall there to wipe out the rest of her troops.

In both of those scenarios I wouldn't commit a tremendous force since you would have the tactical advantage and it should be just a killing field for your troops until her dragons wipe you out. Worry about her dragons later, take out her army first since you can't get to her dragons first.

Yeah she's got dragons but she wouldn't even want to take Westeros with only them. They can die by conventional means and catapults.

I dunno, dragons seem like a substantial advantage in a sea battle, what with the wooden boats and all.

Good ideas though. Cersei clearly is in need of allies beyond her brother and The Mountain.

[JasonEvans]

I dunno, dragons seem like a substantial advantage in a sea battle, what with the wooden boats and all.

Good ideas though. Cersei clearly is in need of allies beyond her brother and The Mountain.

Well, while we may think she needs lots of allies, lets not forget that the Lannister army is pretty much undefeated in Cersei's lifetime and I would imagine she has even more forces as a result of her control of the Iron Throne and King's Landing. So, I suspect she and Jamie have a considerable army at their disposal. What's more, though the show largely focuses on just a few Houses, there are likely many others who will be none too keen to go along with a Targaryn woman (the daughter of the mad king) who has an army made up of savages and slaves, even if she has a trio of dragons at her disposal. In fact, I suspect that word of Dany trying to reclaim the Iron Throne will rally quite a large force of smaller houses to Cersei's side. There's no question that Euron will join with her and despite the death of their lord and his sons, House Frey will certainly be on the Lannister side.

That said, the real battle is with the Army of the Dead approaching the Wall, so if they can get rid of Cersei, Frey, and Euron quickly and without too many casualties, that would be a good thing.

-Jason "the show will make the battles seem at least somewhat even and I suspect Cersei will be willing to do some scary things (more wildfire, more zombies?) in an effort to win" Evans

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

That said, the real battle is with the Army of the Dead approaching the Wall, so if they can get rid of Cersei, Frey, and Euron quickly and without too many casualties, that would be a good thing.

-Jason "the show will make the battles seem at least somewhat even and I suspect Cersei will be willing to do some scary things (more wildfire, more zombies?) in an effort to win" Evans

Hasn't that been the theme since season one, episode one? While everyone else is farting around with the Iron Throne, the real danger bears down from the north?

[luvdahops]

Well, while we may think she needs lots of allies, lets not forget that the Lannister army is pretty much undefeated in Cersei's lifetime and I would imagine she has even more forces as a result of her control of the Iron Throne and King's Landing. So, I suspect she and Jamie have a considerable army at their disposal. What's more, though the show largely focuses on just a few Houses, there are likely many others who will be none too keen to go along with a Targaryn woman (the daughter of the mad king) who has an army made up of savages and slaves, even if she has a trio of dragons at her disposal. In fact, I suspect that word of Dany trying to reclaim the Iron Throne will rally quite a large force of smaller houses to Cersei's side. There's no question that Euron will join with her and despite the death of their lord and his sons, House Frey will certainly be on the Lannister side.

That said, the real battle is with the Army of the Dead approaching the Wall, so if they can get rid of Cersei, Frey, and Euron quickly and without too many casualties, that would be a good thing.

-Jason "the show will make the battles seem at least somewhat even and I suspect Cersei will be willing to do some scary things (more wildfire, more zombies?) in an effort to win" Evans

Not to quibble, but weren't the Starks and their bannerman pretty much having their way with the Lannister army prior to the Red Wedding? And what is really left of House Frey after Arya offed Walder and his two sons? And were the Freys ever that formidable as a fighting (as opposed to ambushing and scheming) force? They couldn't dislodge from Riverrun from the Blackfish by force, and Jamie mocked their siege tactics, and then Walder to his face at the celebration dinner. Not saying the Freys won't side with the Lannisters, just don't think they bring much.

[tbyers11]

Well, while we may think she needs lots of allies, lets not forget that the Lannister army is pretty much undefeated in Cersei's lifetime and I would imagine she has even more forces as a result of her control of the Iron Throne and King's Landing. So, I suspect she and Jamie have a considerable army at their disposal. What's more, though the show largely focuses on just a few Houses, there are likely many others who will be none too keen to go along with a Targaryn woman (the daughter of the mad king) who has an army made up of savages and slaves, even if she has a trio of dragons at her disposal. In fact, I suspect that word of Dany trying to reclaim the Iron Throne will rally quite a large force of smaller houses to Cersei's side. There's no question that Euron will join with her and despite the death of their lord and his sons, House Frey will certainly be on the Lannister side.

That said, the real battle is with the Army of the Dead approaching the Wall, so if they can get rid of Cersei, Frey, and Euron quickly and without too many casualties, that would be a good thing.

-Jason "the show will make the battles seem at least somewhat even and I suspect Cersei will be willing to do some scary things (more wildfire, more zombies?) in an effort to win" Evans

I disagree that Cersei really has many allies left. She has her home turf in the Westerlands. She controls Riverrun and the Riverlands by might but if the Lannister forces must return home to defend Casterly Rock she will have few allies left there. She does have the Freys, but other than controlling the Twins they are not a powerful house. The Lannister army is fairly strong but spreading it out between west and east (King's Landing) weakens it considerably

She has lost the North, Dorne, the Reach (Martell), the Vale (aligned with Littlefinger/Sansa). I doubt she has many friends from the Stormlands (loyal to Robert) and she just killed hundreds of King's Landings locals and any remaining Faith Militant want her head.

An unknown Targaryen queen with slaves and savages may not be all that palatable but, before the Mad King, Targaryens were typically well liked rulers for three centuries. Also dragons can be pretty convincing.

I think Cersei is pretty much done. Rather quickly if Jaime turns against her.

I do agree that the battle for the Iron Throne is really just window dressing for getting Dany (and Tyrion) to meet and align with Jon and the remaining the Stark kids for the true battle with the White Walkers.

[Wander]

I do agree that the battle for the Iron Throne is really just window dressing for getting Dany (and Tyrion) to meet and align with Jon and the remaining the Stark kids for the true battle with the White Walkers.

The only prediction that I'm sure about is that this won't be the ending. Having all the good guys join forces to fight a mindlessly evil army would be the most un-GoT ending ever. Either Jon and Dany end up as enemies in the last season, or Dany is portrayed as no better than the White Walkers, or one of Arya/Sansa really turns evil, or Littlefinger manipulates his way to victory, or some combination of the above.

I agree with your comment that Cersei doesn't have an allies left, though... actually, it's basically stated as fact in the first trailer for this season.

[tbyers11]

The only prediction that I'm sure about is that this won't be the ending. Having all the good guys join forces to fight a mindlessly evil army would be the most un-GoT ending ever. Either Jon and Dany end up as enemies in the last season, or Dany is portrayed as no better than the White Walkers, or one of Arya/Sansa really turns evil, or Littlefinger manipulates his way to victory, or some combination of the above.

I agree with your comment that Cersei doesn't have an allies left, though... actually, it's basically stated as fact in the first trailer for this season.

Good point. By align I was trying to convey that the people I think are most important to the story (Jon, Dany, Tyrion, Sansa, Bran, Arya) will physically be in the same place and no one will be worrying about those silly Southron wars. Are they all going to shake hands, sing Kumbaya and defeat the Night King? Heck, no. Jealousy, lust for power, stubbornness and/or ignorance will ensure things won't go smoothly.

[JNort]

The only prediction that I'm sure about is that this won't be the ending. Having all the good guys join forces to fight a mindlessly evil army would be the most un-GoT ending ever. Either Jon and Dany end up as enemies in the last season, or Dany is portrayed as no better than the White Walkers, or one of Arya/Sansa really turns evil, or Littlefinger manipulates his way to victory, or some combination of the above.

I agree with your comment that Cersei doesn't have an allies left, though... actually, it's basically stated as fact in the first trailer for this season.

I agree and still maintain my belief that the true enemy is gonna end up being Littlefinger. I could see a situation where the white walkers are defeated, the armies depleted, dragons dead and then Littlefinger tries seizing the throne. Wouldn't doubt it if he has been getting prepared to buy mercenaries from the free cities and also repairing that castle that was given to him. O and he also has the Vale in his back pocket as well.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

I agree and still maintain my belief that the true enemy is gonna end up being Littlefinger. I could see a situation where the white walkers are defeated, the armies depleted, dragons dead and then Littlefinger tries seizing the throne. Wouldn't doubt it if he has been getting prepared to buy mercenaries from the free cities and also repairing that castle that was given to him. O and he also has the Vale in his back pocket as well.

He is the weaseliest.