Your Feelings About Players Who Left Early

[Jeffrey]

Kyrie probably best to play at DUKE.

Kyrie was the best to barely play at DUKE.

Are you meaning the best NBA career?

IMO, the best Duke career belongs to Laettner and that will never change in the OAD age.

[kako]

I think the fact that a 4-year player plays for four years (or more, like Jefferson) gives us the chance to watch that player develop and grow... and grow on us as fans and alumni. So I think it's understandable to have more affinity for those players. Watching a guy like Battier grow over those years was amazing. I almost named one my my daughter "Shane".

I think there are some other factors that would seem to bring less than 4-year players higher on the "scale":

- Was the player on NCAA championship team(s)? The reason to like them is obvious.
- Did the player do something outstanding? Ex. JWilliams vs. Maryland, Rivers vs. UNC, Dunleavy vs. Arizona, Allen vs. Wisconsin - these guys are in our memories
- Did they do something in the NBA - Ex. Irving's NBA championship/Series winning shot

So my answer is, it depends on the player.

Favorite early entrant: Tyus "Stones" Jones

[Jeffrey]

I almost named one my my daughter "Shane".

This is not horseshoes... step up your game!

[chriso]

I think the fact that a 4-year player plays for four years (or more, like Jefferson) gives us the chance to watch that player develop and grow... and grow on us as fans and alumni. So I think it's understandable to have more affinity for those players. Watching a guy like Battier grow over those years was amazing. I almost named one my my daughter "Shane".

I think there are some other factors that would seem to bring less than 4-year players higher on the "scale":

- Was the player on NCAA championship team(s)? The reason to like them is obvious.
- Did the player do something outstanding? Ex. JWilliams vs. Maryland, Rivers vs. UNC, Dunleavy vs. Arizona, Allen vs. Wisconsin - these guys are in our memories
- Did they do something in the NBA - Ex. Irving's NBA championship/Series winning shot

So my answer is, it depends on the player.

Favorite early entrant: Tyus "Stones" Jones

I don't mind when a few guys leave early; it's the price of success. I do remember being gutted when we lost to UConn and half the team left. I loved Avery and Maggette and was shocked when those 2 left. But it threw the next year's freshman class into the fire, and maybe we don't win the title 2 years later without it. My favorite one year player was Winslow. When we signed him I told my friend "this guy is going to bring us a title next year." And he did. Love his overall game and intensity.

[JNort]

No consistent reason why I favor some guys over others but time spent at Duke doesn't usually matter to me. Now obviously I loved the typical guys like Hurley, Christian, Grant, Battier, Boozer, etc etc etc all the way up to our more recent star players but here are some guys I loved as much or more so than the legends.

Guys I loved and wanted on the court from day 1 and my faith never wavered. These guys I can't explain what it really is I liked but I just did:
Marshall Plumlee
Quinn Cook

Some guys I have an extreme bias for and these tend to be my most loved because in my mind they were better than the numbers said they were. These guys I thought were either under utilized, struggled with injuries or just were not meant for the style we played at the time.
Ryan Kelly
Mason Plumlee
Brian Zoubek
Derryck Thorton

Some i just try to forget were even here...
Josh Hairston
David McClure
Greg Paulus
Lee Melchionne

Some guys I didn't like but just grew on me because of their 4 year stay.
Tyler Thornton
Amile Jefferson

As for the early exits I loved these the most.
Kyrie
Rivers
Oak
Deng
McBob
Hood


I got others but I need to be on my way now.

[JNort]

Kyrie was the best to barely play at DUKE.

Are you meaning the best NBA career?

IMO, the best Duke career belongs to Laettner and that will never change in the OAD age.

Idk about him but if you asked me who the best player to ever play at Duke was I wouldn't hesitate and say Grant Hill and Kyrie Irving with J Williams not far behind.

Doesn't matter about college or pro success necessarily but just the talent.

[Ima Facultiwyfe]

Coach K says that all he asks of the guys is that they "unpack their bags while they are here."

Sadly, times have changed (EVERYwhere in EVERy way) so I guess we all have to adjust.

Still, it was a lot more fun for all of us when we could not only get to know our OWN players, and at the same time love or hate the ones in the rest of the league. I used to be able to name every player on Virginia's team, or Ga. Techs, etc, etc. Now I don't think I could name more than a couple of them. Teams had whole personalities then that more often than not reflected the personalities of their famous coaches. Now it all looks like one, big amalgam of bodies I won't recognize except for the colors of their uniforms. It's hard to care as much for these faceless figures.

I think I still love the team of Dawkins, Alerie, etc, etc, who didn't win it all much more than the last team that won us a Natty and then grabbed a flight out as soon as they cut down the net.

Love, Ima

[Doria]

I just think I judge individually based on players in terms of which I like best. In terms of, uh, "real" Duke players, I don't even know what that means. If they came to Duke and played at Duke, they're real Duke players or whatever.

Now, as to the first, I too share a partial preference for the 4-year players, but I think that's really just because I get to know them better and share in their development, on and off the court. But sure, I've liked one and done players.

Personally, whether they won a championship doesn't really matter that much to me if I'm only considering my emotional reaction. I won't say it has zero effect, but I really liked some if the players on the '95 squad because they didn't quit, even after one gut-wrenching loss after another.

So beyond this, it's hard for me to generalize. I like players the way I (hope) I like other people, and it's hard to reduce it to a formula.

[YmoBeThere]

...but I prefer lots of things in life that no longer exist.

I'm still running Windows XP on one box...

[subzero02]

The two one-and-done Duke players that I do not look back upon fondly are Austin Rivers and Jabari Parker.

Before everyone starts screaming that I HAVE TO LOVE Austin because of the shot, let me explain. Yes, I love the shot. I still watch it and giggle. My problem with Austin was that I felt like he caused chemistry problems with that team. Everything seemed to be about him, and I got that impression not only when he played basketball but also when I would see him around campus. The name on the front of the jersey is Duke not Austin.

When I look back at Jabari's season I just shake my head. All I remember is one of the worst defensive teams I've ever seen, losing to Carolina in the Dean Dome (in a game that had we won would have made three straight for Duke in the Dome), and losing to Mercer. I remember after losing to Mercer my wife and I went out to dinner and sat there staring at each other in stunned disbelief. I think we asked each other, "What the hell just happened?", at least five times.

Let me make this clear. I think Jabari is a really great kid. I root for him to succeed in the NBA, and I was upset to hear that he suffered another ACL injury. Simply because I don't look back fondly on the 2014 season doesn't mean I don't like him as a person. That being said, I reserve the right to like other Duke players more than him.

Liking some players more than others is one thing; not looking upon some players fondly is different. If watching the shot only makes you giggle, you should probably watch the 5 minutes prior to the shot. Austin and Jabari are both great players and all Duke fans should look upon them fondly. They have both represented themselves extraordinarily well in their NBA careers; true grit and perseverance. i do agree about the 2014 game in the dome; it was a slow train wreck at the end.

[JNort]

The two one-and-done Duke players that I do not look back upon fondly are Austin Rivers and Jabari Parker.

Before everyone starts screaming that I HAVE TO LOVE Austin because of the shot, let me explain. Yes, I love the shot. I still watch it and giggle. My problem with Austin was that I felt like he caused chemistry problems with that team. Everything seemed to be about him, and I got that impression not only when he played basketball but also when I would see him around campus. The name on the front of the jersey is Duke not Austin.

When I look back at Jabari's season I just shake my head. All I remember is one of the worst defensive teams I've ever seen, losing to Carolina in the Dean Dome (in a game that had we won would have made three straight for Duke in the Dome), and losing to Mercer. I remember after losing to Mercer my wife and I went out to dinner and sat there staring at each other in stunned disbelief. I think we asked each other, "What the hell just happened?", at least five times.

Let me make this clear. I think Jabari is a really great kid. I root for him to succeed in the NBA, and I was upset to hear that he suffered another ACL injury. Simply because I don't look back fondly on the 2014 season doesn't mean I don't like him as a person. That being said, I reserve the right to like other Duke players more than him.

I've loved all all the one and dones but my least favorites if I had to choose were definitely Ingram and Tyus. Again I liked both but those were my two least favorites

[jv001]

Taylor King is my least favorite Duke transfer. I root/rooted for all the OADs, especially Kyrie because I believe he's a Dukie at heart, even though he only played 11 games for us. GoDuke!

[subzero02]

I've loved all all the one and dones but my least favorites if I had to choose were definitely Ingram and Tyus. Again I liked both but those were my two least favorites

Tyus is my favorite one and done player by far and i lIke them all . He is the most clutch freshman from a championship team that I have ever seen in any sport.

[SoCalDukeFan]

with transfers than OADs.

Transfers are usually for playing time. They knew what they were getting into went they decided to go to Duke. Duke knew what it was getting into when it recruited most of the OADs.

The OADs on teams that had unmemorable seasons are largely forgotten by me.

Its only natural that you have more affinity for the players you saw develop over 4 years.

While I don't hold it against anyone who left early for the rational decision of making big money, I do have more respect for the players that graduated.

My favorite Duke players of the Coach K era all graduated.

I do have a special place in my heart for Rivers. Loved the shot.

SoCal

[CharlestonDave]

THis years Final Four has 3 teams that do not or did not recruit One and Done Players and if UNC beats Kentucky probably 4. Last year's Champion, Villanova did not.

Maybe Coach K has to re-evaluate . It did not work out with Rivers, Parker, Ingrahm, Tatum , Giles . Yes we won a championship 2 years ago, but , and I could be wrong , I did not think that when Coach K recruited Jones and Winslow he thought that they would only stay for one year and then leave.

If Duval commits, we know he is gone , he has made it perfectly clear. I do not not know about the other 3 recruits , but I am almost certain O'Connell is here for the long run.

Maybe it is hard to build chemistry on a team when they know that their star recruit is only there for a year and might be more concerned in boosting his NBA stock. I am just surmising with no facts here.

I am certain that Coach K is not reading my post and will change his recruiting strategy , but in my opinion it needs some massaging .

[DukeDevilDeb]

The two one-and-done Duke players that I do not look back upon fondly are Austin Rivers and Jabari Parker.

Before everyone starts screaming that I HAVE TO LOVE Austin because of the shot, let me explain. Yes, I love the shot. I still watch it and giggle. My problem with Austin was that I felt like he caused chemistry problems with that team. Everything seemed to be about him, and I got that impression not only when he played basketball but also when I would see him around campus. The name on the front of the jersey is Duke not Austin.

When I look back at Jabari's season I just shake my head. All I remember is one of the worst defensive teams I've ever seen, losing to Carolina in the Dean Dome (in a game that had we won would have made three straight for Duke in the Dome), and losing to Mercer. I remember after losing to Mercer my wife and I went out to dinner and sat there staring at each other in stunned disbelief. I think we asked each other, "What the hell just happened?", at least five times.

Let me make this clear. I think Jabari is a really great kid. I root for him to succeed in the NBA, and I was upset to hear that he suffered another ACL injury. Simply because I don't look back fondly on the 2014 season doesn't mean I don't like him as a person. That being said, I reserve the right to like other Duke players more than him.

Nobody in my house will say you have to love Austin Rivers. Austin's self-love is more than sufficient to meet his ego's needs. I totally agree with your comments about Austin's impact on the team chemistry. After his journey through Duke, I finally understood the "cancer in the locker room" metaphor. I had Austin in class for one of his semesters. He walked in 5 to 10 minutes late EVERY SINGLE CLASS SESSION despite the fact that he didn't have far to go from his previous class. Actually, he swaggered in rather than walked. He appeared to believe that the jersey should have RIVERS on the front and Duke somewhere as a footnote. I might have been able to overlook this (though I doubt it) had he made a huge contribution to team success, but he didn't. And isn't it ironic that his NBA career has improved ever since the president/coach of his team turned out to be his father! See how his teammates like that! https://sports.yahoo.com/m/176842a4-...s-sort-of.html

Must admit it--that shot against Carolina was magnificent... and that was one of our most dramatic wins in the Smith Center. Another I'll never forget was Duhon taking the ball the length of the court by himself, making a layup, and then preventing UNC from doing exactly the same thing. Two brilliant Duke wins.

My attitude toward the guys depends more on their attitude toward Duke and their education than it does on when they left. A previous poster made the point that Jason (who has morphed into a Jay I don't much like) Williams graduated in 3 years... and that made a huge difference. While Dunleavy and Boozer both left at the same time after 3 years, Dunleavy returned and completed his degree (which I know because I worked with him) while Boozer never set foot in a classroom again. Is it any wonder that my memories of Mike are more positive than those of Carlos?

Finally, I have a photo of part of the Class of 2006 with all five seniors (Redick, Melchionni, Perkins, Williams, and Dockery) in their caps and gowns! They reside in a very special place in my heart I reserve for the True Blue Devils!

[SoCalDukeFan]

THis years Final Four has 3 teams that do not or did not recruit One and Done Players and if UNC beats Kentucky probably 4. Last year's Champion, Villanova did not.

The reason some schools do not recruit OADs is because they know they will not get them.

I am also pretty sure uncle-heaters recruited Brandon Ingram.

When a school is evaluating whether or not to recruit a player they need to assess the chances of being successful and avoid spending time and money on those that they have little chance of landing I would guess that nearly every and maybe every team that made the NCAA tournament would have taken Jason Tatum is he said he wanted to go to that school.

SoCal

[chriso]

THis years Final Four has 3 teams that do not or did not recruit One and Done Players and if UNC beats Kentucky probably 4. Last year's Champion, Villanova did not.

Maybe Coach K has to re-evaluate . It did not work out with Rivers, Parker, Ingrahm, Tatum , Giles . Yes we won a championship 2 years ago, but , and I could be wrong , I did not think that when Coach K recruited Jones and Winslow he thought that they would only stay for one year and then leave.

If Duval commits, we know he is gone , he has made it perfectly clear. I do not not know about the other 3 recruits , but I am almost certain O'Connell is here for the long run.

Maybe it is hard to build chemistry on a team when they know that their star recruit is only there for a year and might be more concerned in boosting his NBA stock. I am just surmising with no facts here.

I am certain that Coach K is not reading my post and will change his recruiting strategy , but in my opinion it needs some massaging .

Nice post. One thought regarding recruiting elite talent along with depth is that the depth may choose greener pastures, if they know someone better will be coming in each year and be ahead of them. So I think developing quality depth is difficult. Not sure what the answer is. You have to recruit the best players. I can't imagine many top 100 high school seniors think of themselves as "role players." And Amile and Matt, role players who stuck around, were starters who were solidly in the rotation by year two. If you recruit players who are not elite then they can't help you, and if you recruit highly rated players and don't play them they may leave. It's a delicate balancing act. I'd like to see 2 teams of 5 play, but I haven't won 5 National Championships.

[elvis14]

THis years Final Four has 3 teams that do not or did not recruit One and Done Players and if UNC beats Kentucky probably 4. Last year's Champion, Villanova did not.

Maybe Coach K has to re-evaluate . It did not work out with Rivers, Parker, Ingrahm, Tatum , Giles . Yes we won a championship 2 years ago, but , and I could be wrong , I did not think that when Coach K recruited Jones and Winslow he thought that they would only stay for one year and then leave.

If Duval commits, we know he is gone , he has made it perfectly clear. I do not not know about the other 3 recruits , but I am almost certain O'Connell is here for the long run.

Maybe it is hard to build chemistry on a team when they know that their star recruit is only there for a year and might be more concerned in boosting his NBA stock. I am just surmising with no facts here.

I am certain that Coach K is not reading my post and will change his recruiting strategy , but in my opinion it needs some massaging .

The final four will have teams that didn't land OAD players, that doesn't mean they didn't recruit them. In the case of the UNCheat, they have recruited a ton OAD players that they did't land. Plus they have multiple players that intended to be OAD (Hicks, Jackson) but that didn't progress well enough to go. I hope Ky and their team fill of OAD players wins.

As we bring in OAD players, I think we pretty much guarantee that we are going to have top 10 level teams. But to get these teams to the next level (say final 4 level), we need experienced players (like Grayson, Luke, Amile, Matt). It would help if we had healthy players and the right mix of guys. I do wonder if we need find a defense that works better for OAD.

[CharlestonDave]

The final four will have teams that didn't land OAD players, that doesn't mean they didn't recruit them. In the case of the UNCheat, they have recruited a ton OAD players that they did't land. Plus they have multiple players that intended to be OAD (Hicks, Jackson) but that didn't progress well enough to go. I hope Ky and their team fill of OAD players wins.

As we bring in OAD players, I think we pretty much guarantee that we are going to have top 10 level teams. But to get these teams to the next level (say final 4 level), we need experienced players (like Grayson, Luke, Amile, Matt). It would help if we had healthy players and the right mix of guys. I do wonder if we need find a defense that works better for OAD.

You are making an excellent point here, one that I really never considered...defense. Most if not all One and done players are terrific offensive players and that is what most likely recruits them. It is probably difficult to get them into buying a defensive strategy and plan in one year since most of them are super offensive talents in high school and are not really defensive minded.

Thanks for pointing that out .