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  1. #1

    Your Feelings About Players Who Left Early

    A friend of mine who knows that I am a big Duke basketball fan asked me how I felt about players who left early as compared to players who stayed . He asked if I felt that they were ," True Dukies ", whatever that means. Do you have the same warm feeling about them ?

    I know that times have changed drastically and in an interview Grant Hill said he would probably have been a one and done player today.

    What is your feeling about players like Kyrie Irving, Jason Tatum , Ingram, Jabari Parker, Austin Rivers ,Corey Maggette, Luol Deng Okafor, Tyus Jones, Winslow as opposed to players like Sheldon Williams, Trajan Langdon, JJ Reddick, Thomas Hill, Chris Duhon, Quentin Cook, Kyle Singler, Jon Scheyer, Bobby Hurley, Christain Laettner, Grant Hill.

    Does the fact that Okafor, Jones and Winslow won a National Championship affect your opinion ?

    What about players that only stayed for 2 years, McRoberts, Brand, Avery ?

    How about 3 year players , Jason Williams, Boozer, Mike Dunleavy, Gerald Henderson ?

    How about transfers like Dahanty Jones, Roshoan McCloud, Hood ?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Boston, MA
    Quote Originally Posted by CharlestonDave View Post
    A friend of mine who knows that I am a big Duke basketball fan asked me how I felt about players who left early as compared to players who stayed . He asked if I felt that they were ," True Dukies ", whatever that means. Do you have the same warm feeling about them ?

    I know that times have changed drastically and in an interview Grant Hill said he would probably have been a one and done player today.

    What is your feeling about players like Kyrie Irving, Jason Tatum , Ingram, Jabari Parker, Austin Rivers ,Corey Maggette, Luol Deng Okafor, Tyus Jones, Winslow as opposed to players like Sheldon Williams, Trajan Langdon, JJ Reddick, Thomas Hill, Chris Duhon, Quentin Cook, Kyle Singler, Jon Scheyer, Bobby Hurley, Christain Laettner, Grant Hill.

    Does the fact that Okafor, Jones and Winslow won a National Championship affect your opinion ?

    What about players that only stayed for 2 years, McRoberts, Brand, Avery ?

    How about 3 year players , Jason Williams, Boozer, Mike Dunleavy, Gerald Henderson ?

    How about transfers like Dahanty Jones, Roshoan McCloud, Hood ?
    Will comment on this topic a little later. Am commenting on the spelling now.
    Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfils the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things. - Winston Churchill

    President of the "Nolan Smith Should Have His Jersey in The Rafters" Club

  3. #3
    I generally have more of an appreciation and loyalty to 4-year players. That being said the National Title helps Tyus, Okafor, Winslow.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Undisclosed
    Glad for everyone who has ever committed to our program and contributed to it, whether I wish they had been here longer or not. It's their life, not mine, and they each have to make the best decision that works for them.

    In a perfect world, we'd all be back to four year players. Those days are gone though, so no use pining for what no longer exists.
    I do not think that word means what you think it means.

  5. #5
    I love the 4 year guys, and JJ is probably my favorite NBA player. That said, most of our NBA alum are early entrants, and so those are the ones that I hear about on a regular basis. I loved Dave McClure, but I'm not sure the last time I heard about him.

    I have more fond memories of the championship guys than the early exits, naturally. I have fond memories of Austin Rivers because of his dagger to UNC vs. a guy like Jabari Parker who, while being an awesome guy, left no real mark (as far as I am concerned) on the program.

    For all of them, I am grateful they laced it up and gave me at least 1 Duke basketball season.
    My Quick Smells Like French Toast.

  6. #6
    Whenever I rank the best to play at Duke, I never seem to rank OADs. Kyrie may have been the most talented PG to play at Duke, but Hurley and Williams will always be my preference.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Durham
    Quote Originally Posted by OldPhiKap View Post
    Glad for everyone who has ever committed to our program and contributed to it, whether I wish they had been here longer or not. It's their life, not mine, and they each have to make the best decision that works for them.

    In a perfect world, we'd all be back to four year players. Those days are gone though, so no use pining for what no longer exists.
    Agree. The players don't owe me anything. Most, if not all, of them came, busted their asses, and contributed to the duke community, if even for a year.

    Now if a player made it clear he had one foot out the door, caused trouble on campus, and failed all his classes, I'd have a very different opinion, and I'd guess he'd find his way off the court or team before the season was out. Fortunately that's never seemed to be an issue.
    1200. DDMF.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    NC
    Quote Originally Posted by OldPhiKap View Post
    Glad for everyone who has ever committed to our program and contributed to it, whether I wish they had been here longer or not. It's their life, not mine, and they each have to make the best decision that works for them.

    In a perfect world, we'd all be back to four year players. Those days are gone though, so no use pining for what no longer exists.
    Quote Originally Posted by uh_no View Post
    Agree. The players don't owe me anything. Most, if not all, of them came, busted their asses, and contributed to the duke community, if even for a year.

    Now if a player made it clear he had one foot out the door, caused trouble on campus, and failed all his classes, I'd have a very different opinion, and I'd guess he'd find his way off the court or team before the season was out. Fortunately that's never seemed to be an issue.
    Yep. They chose Duke. That is what matters. I can't fault them for choosing to pursue their dreams thereafter.

    That being said, I can't say that the 1-year guys are a monolithic entity, nor are the 2-year guys, nor the 3-year guys, nor the 4-year guys. I like some of each more than others.

  9. #9
    Although I prefer those that stay all 4 years, that isn't the way of the world these days. As others have said, I'm grateful for the time they were here. I hope that any that left early come back during their off season to continue working on their degrees.

    Although Jason Williams left after 3 years, he did graduate in those 3 years and had a Senior night.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Boston, MA
    Quote Originally Posted by CDu View Post
    Yep. They chose Duke. That is what matters. I can't fault them for choosing to pursue their dreams thereafter.

    That being said, I can't say that the 1-year guys are a monolithic entity, nor are the 2-year guys, nor the 3-year guys, nor the 4-year guys. I like some of each more than others.
    While I agree, the weighted average of my "likability" per segment can easily be ranked by OAD last, 2OD second to last, 3OD second favorite, and 4-years guys my favorite.

    It's not a coincidence that 2 of my 3 favorite Duke players are JJ Redick and Quinn Cook. But I certainly like some OADs more than 2OD (I like Winslow more than McBob, for instance) and I like some 3ODs more than 4-year guys (Henderson over Singler, for instance. Yeah - I'm pretty sure I'm in the minority on that one).
    Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfils the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things. - Winston Churchill

    President of the "Nolan Smith Should Have His Jersey in The Rafters" Club

  11. #11
    My respect and admiration for Duke players is based on how well they represent Duke on and off the court, not on raw campus tenure. Grant and Battier are ideal Duke hoops student-athletes, but wouldn't think less of them had they left before completing their eligibility in the current environment.

    Would prefer everyone still stayed until they graduated, but pro careers are short (Hurley & JWill). That being said, earning a Duke degree (with or without an NBA career) says more about a player's true commitment/feelings about the University than when they choose to start the clock on their pro career.

    People freaked out in '99 when Brand & Co left early. Would be interesting to see the reaction if a projected rotation fifth year player decided to play at Georgia Tech to pursue a graduate degree in engineering.

  12. #12
    I like admire and am thankful for everyone that puts on a Duke uniform.

    I just like some better than others.

  13. #13
    Every one of those guys has given me fond memories of his performances with DUKE on the front of his jersey, and I consider all of them to be a part of the Duke family. That said, the guys who stay longer create more memories and also allow us as fans more time to appreciate their growth and commitment to the program. Because of the more fulsome narratives, I will always have somewhat warmer memories of the four year guys, but I don't mean that to disparage the guys that leave early.

    I love Tyus, Jah, and Justise, and will always consider them Dukies, but when I think of the 2015 championship and the celebration, I will think of Quinn Cook first and last. I will always think fondly of Austin Rivers's shot against UNC, but will think more fondly of Nolan Smith's performance in the comeback against UNC in 2011 or Wojo's senior night in 1998. Nothing can match the intensity, hunger, and even desperation of a senior who knows it is his last run. While the ending wasn't what we hoped, Matt and Amile personified that just last week.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Dallas, TX
    I would never, ever criticize someone for doing what they thought was the best thing for their own career. Not early departures, not transfers, not LeBron for going to Miami, and not KD for going to Golden State. It's their life and their career. They have the right to do what they feel is best for them.

    I'll root for them while they wear the Duke jersey, and wish them the best (and still root for them) after they take it off. The only exception might be if they decided to transfer to UNC or UK . . . then I would have a problem with it

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by hudlow View Post
    I like admire and am thankful for everyone that puts on a Duke uniform.

    I just like some better than others.
    Hudlow summed up my feelings on the issue.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by hudlow View Post
    I like admire and am thankful for everyone that puts on a Duke uniform.

    I just like some better than others.
    I thought there was a comma in between "like" and "admire"...but it went away when I cleaned the monitor screen.

  17. #17
    I will wait for some other poster to arrive and tell me how I am supposed to feel. I don't feel comfortable making decisions like this on my own.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    MKE
    Quote Originally Posted by hudlow View Post
    I like admire and am thankful for everyone that puts on a Duke uniform.

    I just like some better than others.
    All Duke players are equal. Some are more equal than others.

  19. #19
    I get more attached to the 4 year guys. I guess it's weird to form these attachments at all but I'm as guilty of it as anyone. But I have no problem with rooting for any or all of them and pull for them in the NBA or wherever they play after college. I even root for Livingston who never set foot on campus.

  20. #20
    The two one-and-done Duke players that I do not look back upon fondly are Austin Rivers and Jabari Parker.

    Before everyone starts screaming that I HAVE TO LOVE Austin because of the shot, let me explain. Yes, I love the shot. I still watch it and giggle. My problem with Austin was that I felt like he caused chemistry problems with that team. Everything seemed to be about him, and I got that impression not only when he played basketball but also when I would see him around campus. The name on the front of the jersey is Duke not Austin.

    When I look back at Jabari's season I just shake my head. All I remember is one of the worst defensive teams I've ever seen, losing to Carolina in the Dean Dome (in a game that had we won would have made three straight for Duke in the Dome), and losing to Mercer. I remember after losing to Mercer my wife and I went out to dinner and sat there staring at each other in stunned disbelief. I think we asked each other, "What the hell just happened?", at least five times.

    Let me make this clear. I think Jabari is a really great kid. I root for him to succeed in the NBA, and I was upset to hear that he suffered another ACL injury. Simply because I don't look back fondly on the 2014 season doesn't mean I don't like him as a person. That being said, I reserve the right to like other Duke players more than him.

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