Academic scandal vs winning NOW - which would most UNC fans choose?

[eddiehaskell]

Do you think UNC fans would trade winning now for the whole academic scandal thingy to have never been an issue?

From what I can tell, the average fan has never cared about the scandal. A good portion of them would simply look at you with confusion for mentioning it. The response is sometimes a casual "all schools do that stuff". I believe that UNC and the NCAA have dragged their feet to the point where it's old news that might as well have happened 40 years ago.

[weezie]

...A good portion of them... simply look at you with confusion...

That's their normal state though. Plus the mouth-breathing.

[Newton_14]

That's their normal state though. Plus the mouth-breathing.

Yeah for real. It's obvious the school/institution/athletic staff/coaches/players/fans approve of and likely prefer the cheating and the winning. They have no shame at all. Single most corrupt program in the history of College Basketball, and the NCAA is obviously afraid to punish them at all for the 25 years of systemic and institution ran and controlled cheating. SMU should be asking for a large apology an a lot of forfeited wins back. As should a lot of other schools.

A team that shouldn't even be in the tourney is gifted two Final Fours in a row playing a grand total of one ranked team on the two trips to the FF. It's disgusting. Worse yet, Cal coached and his two star players played like they were on the take today. Awful strange how few shots Fox and Monk attempted today and it sure wasn't the defense.

The whole thing is sickening...

[jipops]

Notice what is not mentioned here...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/ampht...6b5_story.html

Interesting how this story completely misses the mark. But after long delay tactics and $18 mil in legal fees, nobody cares anymore. It's like it never happenned.

[eddiehaskell]

Notice what is not mentioned here...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/ampht...6b5_story.html

Interesting how this story completely misses the mark. But after long delay tactics and $18 mil in legal fees, nobody cares anymore. It's like it never happenned.

Yep. I don't think I've heard it mentioned once during tournament coverage. In a way, you could say UNC handled it the best way possible...stall, stall, stall and WIN. If you're winning, a story that broke ~5 years ago turns into something only discussed on a rival's message board.

[Stray Gator]

What do you want UNC fans to do? Root for the demise of the athletic program? If your kid is facing big jail time for doing something wrong, do you pull for him to get a max sentence? No, you just keep your head down and hope for the best, whatever that is. I am embarrassed by the situation. If and when we are punished, I will accept the punishment and move on. Should we hunt all the athletes and coaches down and torture them? What do we need to do to show you we understand the errors?
Regardless, the reputation is gone and no punishment will be enough to satisfy the most hardcore ABC fan.

It is commendable that you "understand the errors" and are "embarrassed by the situation"; but unfortunately, so far as I can tell, you are a rarity among -- or at least represent a distinct minority of -- UNC fans. As one with quite a few family members and friends who are UNC alums, I have been surprised and disappointed by their almost universal unwillingness to acknowledge that there was any wrongdoing for which the school should be held responsible. The fact that the UNC administration has admitted that the "paper class" (or "anomalous class") scheme constituted academic fraud, which the record indisputably establishes was disproportionately beneficial to scholarship athletes, yet continues to expend millions of dollars and engage in dubious tactics to avoid being held accountable in any way, is IMO something that every proud and honorable UNC supporter should regard as unseemly and shameful. It merits noting that this was not a "victimless crime" -- it denied UNC's opponents the opportunity to compete fairly on a level playing field, while simultaneously enabling UNC to reap undeserved financial benefits.

Of course, there is nothing wrong with trying to mitigate and minimize the punishment for the school's admitted misconduct; but there is something downright nefarious about the way UNC is straining to evade any penalties whatsoever. No one wants members of the UNC community to "root for the demise of the athletic program"; but for those of us who can remember the institutional respect that UNC earned before this malfeasance unfolded, it would be gratifying to see at least some UNC alumni and faculty and fans calling on the administration to do the right thing by dispensing with their strategy of steadfast resistance, acknowledging that some sanctions are warranted, and working with the NCAA to resolve the case by negotiating a reasonable punishment. At this point, I believe it will be difficult for UNC to salvage any dignity; but continuing to deny responsibility and fight against any punishment is certain to further erode what little sense of integrity remains.

[Newton_14]

It is commendable that you "understand the errors" and are "embarrassed by the situation"; but unfortunately, so far as I can tell, you are a rarity among -- or at least represent a distinct minority of -- UNC fans. As one with quite a few family members and friends who are UNC alums, I have been surprised and disappointed by their almost universal unwillingness to acknowledge that there was any wrongdoing for which the school should be held responsible. The fact that the UNC administration has admitted that the "paper class" (or "anomalous class") scheme constituted academic fraud, which the record indisputably establishes was disproportionately beneficial to scholarship athletes, yet continues to expend millions of dollars and engage in dubious tactics to avoid being held accountable in any way, is IMO something that every proud and honorable UNC supporter should regard as unseemly and shameful. It merits noting that this was not a "victimless crime" -- it denied UNC's opponents the opportunity to compete fairly on a level playing field, while simultaneously enabling UNC to reap undeserved financial benefits.

Of course, there is nothing wrong with trying to mitigate and minimize the punishment for the school's admitted misconduct; but there is something downright nefarious about the way UNC is straining to evade any penalties whatsoever. No one wants members of the UNC community to "root for the demise of the athletic program"; but for those of us who can remember the institutional respect that UNC earned before this malfeasance unfolded, it would be gratifying to see at least some UNC alumni and faculty and fans calling on the administration to do the right thing by dispensing with their strategy of steadfast resistance, acknowledging that some sanctions are warranted, and working with the NCAA to resolve the case by negotiating a reasonable punishment. At this point, I believe it will be difficult for UNC to salvage any dignity; but continuing to deny responsibility and fight against any punishment is certain to further erode what little sense of integrity remains.

Great post but I would add they also cheated players out of a real education. There was more than one player on the football side that came out and said they wanted to major in criminal justice and take real classes an were not allowed to do so.

For me, I can't move past the scandal until a fair punishment is doled out and served. Then and only then can we go back to just discussing the games on the court. That is my current beef and why I feel that back to back Final Four appearances is an insult and slap in the face to every other school in the NCAA.

[devildeac]

Great post but I would add they also cheated players out of a real education. There was more than one player on the football side that came out and said they wanted to major in criminal justice and take real classes an were not allowed to do so.

For me, I can't move past the scandal until a fair punishment is doled out and served. Then and only then can we go back to just discussing the games on the court. That is my current beef and why I feel that back to back Final Four appearances is an insult and slap in the face to every other school in the NCAA.

Yep.

"Jon Solomon‏ @JonSolomonCBS 3h3 hours ago
More
Sign of the times: UNC will play in two Final Fours before a resolution to its NCAA academic fraud case that threatens 2005 & '09 titles."

Disgusting and pathetic.

(He's a national college football reporter at http://CBSSports.com .)

[jipops]

Yep.

"Jon Solomon‏ @JonSolomonCBS 3h3 hours ago
More
Sign of the times: UNC will play in two Final Fours before a resolution to its NCAA academic fraud case that threatens 2005 & '09 titles."

Disgusting and pathetic.

(He's a national college football reporter at http://CBSSports.com .)

Hmm, CBS isn't going to like that one. I also find the lack of media coverage of all this for the last 5 years to be disturbing. Take away Dan Kane and the coverage is mostly in tweets like these.

The fact that these cheats are on the brink of another title is a massive black eye to the credibility of college ball, at least for those that will entertain critical thought based on facts.

I expect the press to harp on the theme of there being no OAD's on any of the FF programs. That these are kids that have invested themselves into something bigger. In the case of the cheats that narrative will be one sick joke. This is a program that sustained itself by running a fraudulent academic program for the betterment of itself, not the kids. And now, despite the missed recruiting opportunities, they are taking full advantage as a result of a brand sustained and a dearth of talented players who were just a little too tweener to have already made the jump.

Cheat fans as a whole don't care. The goal of the fraud was to win and it worked. Mission
Accomplished. Nothing else matters but some nobility garbage will be made up to appear as if other things do.

[dukelifer]

Hmm, CBS isn't going to like that one. I also find the lack of media coverage of all this for the last 5 years to be disturbing. Take away Dan Kane and the coverage is mostly in tweets like these.

The fact that these cheats are on the brink of another title is a massive black eye to the credibility of college ball, at least for those that will entertain critical thought based on facts.

I expect the press to harp on the theme of there being no OAD's on any of the FF programs. That these are kids that have invested themselves into something bigger. In the case of the cheats that narrative will be one sick joke. This is a program that sustained itself by running a fraudulent academic program for the betterment of itself, not the kids. And now, despite the missed recruiting opportunities, they are taking full advantage as a result of a brand sustained and a dearth of talented players who were just a little too tweener to have already made the jump.

Cheat fans as a whole don't care. The goal of the fraud was to win and it worked. Mission
Accomplished. Nothing else matters but some nobility garbage will be made up to appear as if other things do.

This is a huge soap opera. I have no idea how it is going to play out. UNC can easily win it all and then two months later get kicked out of the tourney for two years and maybe lose a title or two. That is crazy.

[Devilwin]

Is there even going to be a ruling? This entire sordid mess seems to go on forever. Carolina fans certainly as a whole aren't concerned a whit about it.

[dukelifer]

Is there even going to be a ruling? This entire sordid mess seems to go on forever. Carolina fans certainly as a whole aren't concerned a whit about it.

It is true that the fans do not care and strangely the cloud over the program which has kept them from recruiting the best players has led them to recruit in the next teer and those kids are hanging around. It is still mind boggling, however, that it was not one of their many McDonald All Americans that save them- it was a former walk-on who was given a chance because UNC couldn't get some of the top talent.

[jv001]

Is there even going to be a ruling? This entire sordid mess seems to go on forever. Carolina fans certainly as a whole aren't concerned a whit about it.

Probably no ruling in my lifetime and I hope to live several more years, Lord willing. I almost hate the NCAA as much as the uncheats and I didn't think that to be possible. An athletic program that was built on cheating/fraud. The single most corrupt college institution everrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!GoDuke!!!! !