Feinstein on Bobby Knight

[Olympic Fan]

Knight recommended K to Tom Butters back in the day. For that, I will always be grateful.

Not quite the story.

Butters called Knight and offered him the job -- knowing Knight would refuse. Then he asked for a recommendation.

The guy Knight recommended for us was a stiff named Bob Weltlich, who was at that time the head coach at Ole Miss.

It was only after Steve Vacendak convinced Butters to look at Krzyzewski at Army that Butters called Knight back and asked about the Army coach.

Knight did give K a strong recommendation at that point.

But always remember, it was Steve Vacendak who first put Duke into K. If Knight had his way, we would have been stuck with Weltlich.

[devildeac]

Not quite the story.

Butters called Knight and offered him the job -- knowing Knight would refuse. Then he asked for a recommendation.

The guy Knight recommended for us was a stiff named Bob Weltlich, who was at that time the head coach at Ole Miss.

It was only after Steve Vacendak convinced Butters to look at Krzyzewski at Army that Butters called Knight back and asked about the Army coach.

Knight did give K a strong recommendation at that point.

But always remember, it was Steve Vacendak who first put Duke into K. If Knight had his way, we would have been stuck with Weltlich.

Which I believe was (paraphrasing), "K has all of my good qualities and none of my bad ones." (From A Season Is A Lifetime, IIRC)

[Indoor66]

There are people we all know in life that sadly can never let anything go..always have to have the last word...always have to be right...Sad way to live IMHO.

Some of them post on this board.😍

[DisplacedBlueDevil]

I had a first-hand experience with Coach Knight as a student at Michigan State.

I was at Jenison field house in East Lansing during the 79-80 season, when Isaiah Thomas and I were freshmen. My buddy & I walked over to the IU bench and sat in the first two seats where the coaches usually sit and waited to see how long until we got kicked out. We sat there for quite awhile, even after the Hoosiers were warming up. Finally, Coach came over and said, "Hey, fellas, you don't need to move yet" and let us sit there for several more minutes, my buddy and I looking at each other incredulously and waiting for the tirade. Just before tip, he smiled at us and said something like, "I'm afraid your time is up".

Just thought I'd share that.

[Henderson]

Money quote:

After Knight retired from Texas Tech in midseason in 2008, he was hired with much fanfare by ESPN. The network wanted him to be a star. Knight wanted to be a star, too, but didn’t want to do the things TV analysts are asked to do: show up for production meetings; go to shoot-arounds; talk to coaches about their teams. It was beneath him. Bob Knight asking a coach for a few minutes of his time?

Bob Knight famously preached that the "will to win" is overrated. It's the will to work -- to prepare -- that counts.

Then we get old.

[eddiehaskell]

Knight is an interesting character and great coach. I'd rather listen to him over say Jay Williams, Bilas or Dorris Burke. I like his no BS style.

[WiJoe]

Knight is an interesting character and great coach. I'd rather listen to him over say Jay Williams, Bilas or Dorris Burke. I like his no BS style.

or feinstein, for that matter.

I totally agree, Mr. Haskell. How's Mrs. Haskell?

[ballfour]

Thanks for the heads up on this link. I've read a huge chunk of the Feinstein books, and pretty much everything he's written about Knight (One on One has a lot of look-backs into what made Season on the Brink so fascinating).

Knight is a monstrous contradiction, as so many interesting people are. He's bright. He can be loquacious, generous (what he did for Landon Turner must be mentioned). But he also sees the world in absolute terms, he demands power in just about every relationship he has, and it's turned him into, as John said, a very old, lonely, bitter man.

So many people from Bob's life just want to love him and celebrate him. It's sad he won't let his 1976 Indiana team do that, or the IU fans. At some point, I think it's important for anyone to ask themselves "would I rather be right, or be happy?"

Bobby Knight doesn't seem like either right now. He'll convince himself he's the former. I can't imagine he's the latter, and that's a shame, albeit one of his own doing.

[ballfour]

I'm surprised anyone would prefer Knight in the booth over Jay Bilas, however. It's absurd how prepared Bilas is for any game he does, how insatiably curious he is to break things down and understand them. And then he's quick to adjust to the flow of any game, quick to recognize small trends or nuances that bring understanding to the viewer.

I greatly miss the Sean McDonough, Jay Bilas, Bill Raftery team, unquestionably (IMHO) the best three-man booth in broadcasting history. They liked each other, they rarely stepped over each other (super-hard to avoid in a three-man booth), and they brought out the best in one another.

I do think Knight had his moments as a commentator, because he clearly knows the game inside and out. But it's a shame he thought he could just show up and do the job, without the preparation. Heck, it's incredibly ironic that Knight thought he could do that, because Knight the coach was never like that. It reminds me a little bit of the NBA commentators who work on the NCAA tournament for a few weeks, when it's clear they did little or none of the homework required. The viewers deserve better than that.

[MChambers]

Weird story:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/inves...=.ba885c94cfbb

[Indoor66]

Weird story:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/inves...=.ba885c94cfbb

What, generally, is it about?

[MChambers]

What, generally, is it about?

That the FBI investigated Knight for making inappropriate contact with four women while making a speech at the NGA, a US intelligence agency. Did not pursue charges.

[sagegrouse]

That the FBI investigated Knight for making inappropriate contact with four women while making a speech at the NGA, a US intelligence agency. Did not pursue charges.

Yes, and it started as soon as he was picked up at Union Stati9on by a female driver and NGA employee. Then he made inappropriate physical contact three other women. This all happened within a few minutes of arriving at agency HQ. Then more unwelcome physical contact with a woman after his speech.

[OldPhiKap]

What, generally, is it about?

"The women accused Knight of a range of boorish behavior: from touching them on the shoulder while commenting on the attractiveness of their legs, to hugging them too tightly around the chest, to hitting them on the buttocks, according to documents compiled by investigators and Washington Post interviews with three of the women."

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Weird story. Feels like a Mad Lib.

[Indoor66]

Just a dirty old man.

[davekay1971]

Yes, and it started as soon as he was picked up at Union Stati9on by a female driver and NGA employee. Then he made inappropriate physical contact three other women. This all happened within a few minutes of arriving at agency HQ. Then more unwelcome physical contact with a woman after his speech.

To be fair to Knight, are these allegations or facts?

Sorry, just got off two days of jury duty on a federal drug trafficking case. My mind is kind of warped. Lawyers...

I agree with the bulk of the comments upthread. Knight's basketball knowledge is incredible. His determination to stick to x's and o's analysis as a color guy was a welcome change from the folks like Vitale and Raftery who seem to want to make the game about them (key point, fellas: basketball is entertaining enough, we don't need a clown show). I will forever be grateful for whatever role he had in bringing the GOAT to Duke, even if it was no more than telling Butters his honest opinion of K when asked. And from many things written and alleged (including the allegations of the female employees, which are all too believable) and known about him, he seems like a class A jerk.

Though the story above from DisplacedBlueDevil is refreshing and cute.

[luvdahops]

I assume you mean this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZD1vkzYmyI

It's pretty amazing.

And I agree - Bob Knight is a jack***. I still have no idea why people like him on this board. He's an embarrassment of epic proportions. His X's and O's is great, but everything else is rotten. Well, he does have an amazing coaching tree.

I went to Knight's basketball camp two summers when I was in HS. In that setting, he often displayed an extremely paternal side, both in explaining drills and the finer points of the game, and in sharing stories about the counselors, many of them current or former IU players. It is a shame that this side of him has so rarely surfaced publicly. He is a very flawed man for sure, but definitely not without redeeming qualities.

[cspan37421]

To be fair to Knight, are these allegations or facts?

Thank you for bringing up - obliquely - the importance of distinguishing the two. Ever since the lacrosse rape hoax, I've been much more sensitive to instances where an allegation is treated as fact. It may not be the default human condition - one may have to work at keeping them separate, esp. when coming from someone within your own "tribe."

[sagegrouse]

To be fair to Knight, are these allegations or facts?

Sorry, just got off two days of jury duty on a federal drug trafficking case. My mind is kind of warped. Lawyers...

I agree with the bulk of the comments upthread. Knight's basketball knowledge is incredible. His determination to stick to x's and o's analysis as a color guy was a welcome change from the folks like Vitale and Raftery who seem to want to make the game about them (key point, fellas: basketball is entertaining enough, we don't need a clown show). I will forever be grateful for whatever role he had in bringing the GOAT to Duke, even if it was no more than telling Butters his honest opinion of K when asked. And from many things written and alleged (including the allegations of the female employees, which are all too believable) and known about him, he seems like a class A jerk.

Though the story above from DisplacedBlueDevil is refreshing and cute.

Thank you for bringing up - obliquely - the importance of distinguishing the two. Ever since the lacrosse rape hoax, I've been much more sensitive to instances where an allegation is treated as fact. It may not be the default human condition - one may have to work at keeping them separate, esp. when coming from someone within your own "tribe."

Well, we have a reputable reporter with a well-sourced story. Possibly or probably there is another side to it, but this is getting pretty factual as far as I am concerned.

Moreover, Washington Post reporter Craig Whitlock is a Duke grad and was editor of the Chronicle in the late 1980's. He is listed as the Pentagon and foreign policy reporter for the Post. (The National Geospatial Intelligence Agency is part of the Dept. of Defense.) I moderated a speech and discussion he led here in Steamboat at our public policy forum and have a very good impression of Craig. He has won some awards and been nominated three times for Pulitzers. If he reports a story, I tend to believe he has the facts straight.