MBB: South Carolina 88, Duke 81 (R32) Post-Game Thread

[DUKIE V(A)]

Always disappointing to lose the last game. Matt and Amile will be missed. Winning titles ain't easy. Proud to be ACC Champs. Should be an interesting off season. I see Grayson and Luke returning but we shall see. The addition of Duval and/or Knox would be huge.

[KandG]

End to a strange year. A lot of people are comparing South Carolina's performance to Arizona 2011, but it really felt like LSU in 2006, where a team just suffocated the life out of us and two of our biggest scorers just couldn't quite match the intensity.

Reality is that this Duke team danced on the edge of disaster for good portions of the season and also danced on the edge of glory for some big parts of the season as well. The great parts of the season were special and the terrible moments pretty terrible. In the end, it just ended up being too much walking on the edge of a cliff. When a team came poised to take advantage of our weaknesses on the right night where a lot of things went their way, we ended up falling off.

Want to thank Amile for being such a warrior and being the player who most didn't want to lose. As bitter as nights like this are, seeing someone like Amile give his all is what makes rooting for this program worth everything.

There are going to be a lot of broad proclamations and intemperate comments made about bad seeds, bad refs, K, lack of point guard play, one and dones, specific players and all that, but I choose to see things more simply. We were a very perimeter oriented team that never defended well all season at the point of attack, and we relied heavily on a couple of young guys that looked a little too young in a big game at both ends. A soft zone and some pressing could only paper over our defensive cracks for so long, no matter how good our offense.

On a specific tactical level, PG or no PG, not having someone that could attack pressure without turning the ball over ended up biting us in the end. Grayson's ball handling deficiencies became a real issue vs SC, and Frank was a turnover machine for most of the game. Jayson was reduced to starting his offensive possessions way outside his comfort zone and dribbling into triple teams and turning the ball over as well. Luke looked like the most worn out player the whole weekend...maybe the four games in four days ACC tournament stretch affected him the most, because he did not attack strongly in either game.

Thank you Amile, Matt, Jayson, Harry, Nick, (probably) Grayson and (maybe) Luke. Everyone will kick dirt on us on this tough night, but I'll look forward to K restarting with a new group next season, stronger than ever. I know people will look at this season as a blown chance, but even the greatest of greats suffer bad luck at the oddest moments. Doesn't take away the great moments and the unexpected successes.

I feel really lucky to have rooted for K and Duke for 30+ years, and his legacy is more than fine with me, despite 1986, 1999, 2004, 2017 and whatever other years of pain resonate with people out there.

[CDu]

We were really weak with the ball tonight. Jackson, Tatum, and Allen had 13 turnovers. That is backbreaking. And to compound that, Kennard was completely shut down.

The whole team other than Jefferson got rattled tonight. Younger guys maybe got overwhelmed by the moment and just couldn't match USC's intensity.

Just have to hope UNC falls short again.

[Ian]

At what point do we revisit the put all our eggs in the OAD recruting strategy? Even counting 2015, we are not winning at any signficantly higher rate than we did before this strategy. We don't have any more ups than we did before and frankly the downs are worse.

Plus what was for me the most rewarding part of following college basketball, that of watching young players comes in and mature and leave as young men, watching them mentor the younger players and pass the torch, have been for the most part removed from the experience. We are now lucky if we have more than one or two seniors on the team in any given year.

We used to play the kind of defense SC played tonight, when we had a team of upperclassmen who's been through the fire with each other for multiple years.

[jipops]

ACC Title doesn't mean as much as it did 10 years ago. The conference bastardized the tradition for football money and the addition of 4 more play-in teams almost makes a conference championship mean little for big conferences. I may be the minority on this feeling but the ACC tournament hasn't had the same feeling since we went to 12 teams then 16.

Winning the tourney was fun to watch but bowing out in game 2 takes away from it.

Geez Loueez, a title won is a championship won. Another banner in Cameron, and not some fake Helms either. Why rationalize/de-rationalize an accomplishment? If you were around back then, go back and taste the early 80's. Now, THAT stunk. And we've been hanging banners ever since, including this year. And it didn't take fake classes to get us here.

[A-Tex Devil]

It's hard to make adjustments to your offense in the second half when you're exhausted from being beat up the entire game. It's hard to establish an inside presence when their guards are allowed to foul every time you bring the ball up in the halfcourt or try to establish ball movement on the perimeter. The reason why this is so frustrating and why referees seriously need to evaluate themselves, is exactly as you say, everyone knows Martin/Huggins teams are going to play like this. The only question is if the refs are going to allow it, or not. Martin/Huggins are banking on the hope that if they foul every time down the court, the refs won't call them all, and it will frustrate the other team. This is an absurd way to play any sport, and the refs need to stop letting this be a valid strategy.

I have seen one Duke game ever where I felt close to jobbed by the refs - Duke/UCONN, 2004 Final Four. And even then, Okafor (UCONN not Duke - because I don't know your age) had a couple questionable fouls on him which kept him on the bench, so it's hard for me to go too far that way even in that game. This was not a ref screw job. This was either a poor game plan altogether, or a belief that our strength would trump their strength with no adjustment when it was clear that wouldn't happen.

[bleedingblue88]

We could never quite put it together this year. Coach K had no answers tonight, truly a dreadful defensive performance. I think this will be largely remembered as one of the more disappointing seasons given our huge amount of talent.

[azzefkram]

A disappointing end to a really strange season. After the ACCT I really thought the team finally found itself. They didn't look it tonight. I have to give SC credit for that. The refs were dreadful but you can't give up 60+ points in the second half and expect anything good to happen. A great game by Amile. I will definitely miss watching him next year. Matt had a good game as well. Harry had some good moments. Luke was MIA most of the night. Jayson, Grayson and Frank were a bit too sloppy with the ball.

A bad end to a good season. I can't shake the feeling that we missed a great season however. One less injury, one less distraction and maybe we hang two banners Thank you seniors for representing Duke so well. Jayson and Harry, I wish you could stick around. I'll miss Grayson.

[scottdude8]

This remains (literally) a banner season. The ACC Tounament can never be taken away from this team. But this was one of the worst possible ways to end a season, in a game against a team I think we beat 9 out of 10 times yet everything seems to go against us.

Hate this feeling. Love my team.

[DieHard]

I just want to say thank you to the players for their hard work. Thank you for the memories, and thank you for the ACC Championship. Great year under the circumstances. Will be interesting to see who returns.

[DukieInKansas]

Press conference starting now

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

What a coincidence - out best players all laid an egg. Or, maybe, SC played insane defense, played us perfectly, and froze us on offense.

Props to USC. They had a great game plan and worked us in the second half.

[ipatent]

I have seen one Duke game ever where I felt close to jobbed by the refs - Duke/UCONN, 2004 Final Four. And even then, Okafor (UCONN not Duke - because I don't know your age) had a couple questionable fouls on him which kept him on the bench, so it's hard for me to go too far that way even in that game. This was not a ref screw job. This was either a poor game plan altogether, or a belief that our strength would trump their strength with no adjustment when it was clear that wouldn't happen.

Duke had no lead guard or assist man at all this year. Kennard and Allen are 2/3s. Jackson is a 1/2 combo guard, but not a playmaker, at least not yet.

Have to wonder how things might have been different if Derryck Thornton didn't transfer.

[uh_no]

What a coincidence - out best players all laid an egg. Or, maybe, SC played insane defense, played us perfectly, and froze us on offense.

Props to USC. They had a great game plan and worked us in the second half.

our offense was perfectly in line with what you'd expect from one of the best defenses in the country. Giving up 55 points in a half to a relatively bad offense was not. That was a sad defensive performance.

[gofurman]

Those of us who got mocked for fearing this game because we had only seen SC in their first round game had a point, as it turns out. Who cares how poor SC was on offense in January? What we saw on Friday was a freight train coming at us.

THIS> I posted as such about three times in the pre-game thread. No one seemed to listen... Please use this from now on as proof - NOT that I know anything. Rather as proof as to why I fear two things - EVERY OPPONENT.. and the refs in the NCAA tourney. We live on shooting and Free throws and refs in the tourney are notorious for calling less fouls than the ACC refs or any regular season refs.

They killed JJ one year in the NCAA (mugged him) and the refs wouldn't call it so we lost.

Still, congrats on a great D plan to USC - we couldnt' drive and kick and they used what the refs were giving, playing very physical w us

* Everyone remember this game next year in the NCAA tourney. Refs swallow the whistle in the NCAA tourney .. that's been shown before

[Dukehky]

At what point do we revisit the put all our eggs in the OAD recruting strategy? Even counting 2015, we are not winning at any signficantly higher rate than we did before this strategy. We don't have any more ups than we did before and frankly the downs are worse.

Plus what was for me the most rewarding part of following college basketball, that of watching young players comes in and mature and leave as young men, watching them mentor the younger players and pass the torch, have been for the most part removed from the experience. We are now lucky if we have more than one or two seniors on the team in any given year.

We used to play the kind of defense SC played tonight, when we had a team of upperclassmen who's been through the fire with each other for multiple years.

We have used more than 1 one and done system twice. Once ended in a national title and one ended in a second round loss with 2 major injuries and one guy who missed 8 games and got into the flow mid-way through the season.

I too like to see kids develop over the course of years, but if they're good enough, they're going to leave (see Luke Kennard) regardless of how old they are. This is an easy thing to point to, but I don't believe it makes a difference. We're always going to have good seniors, but filling things out with talent is not a bad thing.

I know you didn't do it, but pointing to the success of UNC is an anomaly because their 3 McDs All Americans stayed for 3 or more years. That doesn't happen other places.

I'm glad we get the most talented kids, especially if they love Duke and work hard. Nothing to criticize there IMO. We haven't sold our sole. The goal for most kids is to get to the league. Again, Grayson and Kennard are perfect examples of this. It happens everywhere, we just have more talented kids who leave.

[A-Tex Devil]

A disappointing end to a really strange season. After the ACCT I really thought the team finally found itself. They didn't look it tonight. I have to give SC credit for that. The refs were dreadful but you can't give up 60+ points in the second half and expect anything good to happen. A great game by Amile. I will definitely miss watching him next year. Matt had a good game as well. Harry had some good moments. Luke was MIA most of the night. Jayson, Grayson and Frank were a bit too sloppy with the ball.

A bad end to a good season. I can't shake the feeling that we missed a great season however. One less injury, one less distraction and maybe we hang two banners Thank you seniors for representing Duke so well. Jayson and Harry, I wish you could stick around. I'll miss Grayson.

It's funny -- I imagine Harry Giles has an interesting decision to make. He is probably 15-20 in the draft, but could slide into the second round if things break wrong. Alternatively, he could return, get healthy, figure out K's defense with a whole year under his belt, and dominate next year.

This is all wishful thinking because given his knees, I imagine he will gamble he'll at least get a first round contract. But it's been one of the more interesting decisions I can remember in college basketball.

[A-Tex Devil]

Duke had no lead guard or assist man at all this year. Kennard and Allen are 2/3s. Jackson is a 1/2 combo guard, but not a playmaker, at least not yet.

Have to wonder how things might have been different if Derryck Thornton didn't transfer.

Great, um, point (guard). Sporks.

[freshmanjs]

We haven't sold our sole.

That's good...at least we can cook up a good dinner. Got butter?

[Hingeknocker]

I have seen one Duke game ever where I felt close to jobbed by the refs - Duke/UCONN, 2004 Final Four. And even then, Okafor (UCONN not Duke - because I don't know your age) had a couple questionable fouls on him which kept him on the bench, so it's hard for me to go too far that way even in that game. This was not a ref screw job. This was either a poor game plan altogether, or a belief that our strength would trump their strength with no adjustment when it was clear that wouldn't happen.

2004 was my freshman year at Duke. I remember that game well. I would argue that tonight's screwjob is even worse than what happened in 2004, precisely because of what I said before: SC's strategy is obvious and everyone, the refs included, knows it. For them to reward that kind of strategy is what I find so absurd about it. 2004 had a lot bad calls, but I'm willing to give a ref less slack on an isolated decision than one that establishes that a certain, against-the-rules-because-it's-actually-not-allowed-to-foul-players-but-we're-going-to-allow-it-anyway strategy is going to succeed.

But yeah, 2004 sucked a bunch, too. It's the first time in my life I decided that the only solution to my current predicament was a lot of beer. Oh to be 18 again.