MBB: Duke vs. Carolina (ACCT), 3/10 7 pm ESPN Pre-Game & In-Game Thread

[Olympic Fan]

Just to delve further into the history of Duke vs. UNC in the ACC Tourney.

As I posted earlier, Duke is 12-8 against UNC in tourney play ... beyond that:

Duke and UNC have met for the title 11 times and UNC has a 6-5 edge

Duke and UNC have met in the semifinals eight previous times and Duke has a 6-2 edge

Duke and UNC have met in the quarterfinals once and Duke has a 1-0 edge

Duke has a five-game ACC Tourney win streak against UNC. Since losing the 1998 title game to the Cheats, Duke has won the 1999 title game, the 2001 title game, the 2002 quarterfinals, the 2003 semifinals and the 2011 title game.

Hoping for snow in the Big Apple tomorrow -- that would make us a lock!

[awhom111]

Here is the ACC Network information:

TV Stations:
http://www.theacc.com/news/2017-acct...etwork-game-12

Official, free, unrestricted stream (also accesible from front page of ACC website at game time):
http://www.theacc.com/game-center/57...b0dcabe018ef1c

[Steven43]

I know it's heresy but by winning today we achieved a lot and I could stomach a loss. Even to Unc.

Is there something worse than heresy? Whatever it is you deserve a dose of it for making that comment about UNC. Please don't ever do that again, thanks.

[Troublemaker]

Is there something worse than heresy? Whatever it is you deserve a dose of it for making that comment about UNC. Please don't ever do that again, thanks.

Agreed. Besides all the other important aspects and consequences of this rubber match, it's also a chance to slow your rival's momentum heading into the NCAAT. I don't know if the players and coaches would think about it in those terms, but I wouldn't be surprised if they did. UNC may get a 1 seed but it really puts a damper on things if they're sitting there on Selection Sunday having lost the season series to Duke 2-1. Same thing for us, although I'd argue we might have a teensy bit less at stake because we haven't had that 1-seed type season (although I wish that we did). As one of the UNC guests on here wrote, they probably would've rather tanked to Miami than lose to Duke again. With us, I don't think we'd want to erase that win over Louisville for anything.

[jv001]

It looks like odds makers have uncheat favored by 3.5 to 4 points, based on which bookie you look at. I know someone will post the odds on the betting thread later today. If we're not worn down by the 10 minute mark in the 2nd half, we win. If we're worn down, then it could be a bad day. The losses to State and Cuse put us in this spot. So, Next Play. GoDuke!

[UNCfan]

I am not sure this game can live up to the first two, but maybe it can. Will Duke play with tired legs or will they play with momentum? Will UNC be able to use their fresh legs to execute against Duke's zone and keep Duke from getting open looks from three? I would love to win the rubber match and I think UNC will.

[dukelifer]

I hope we win but three thing do favor UNC. Depth is a Big one. Now on game three this becomes an issue for Duke. Luke and Jayson have played high-30 minutes in every game in NY. Only Justin Jackson played 30 minutes for UNC today. That's big and tough to overcome. We did great today but now it gets even tougher. Three in a row is brutal. Good thing is having won two in a row shows we could be fine w NCAA tourney as you obviously do two in three days there

Hicks is coming around. That hurts. That's two big guys for UNC v Amile

Defense. Unc appears to be improving on D though maybe my eye test is wrong here ?

I am hoping Duke plays loose and with some energy. K would do well to be creative today. If he could play some of the other guys (Vrank, White etc)- just to allow his starters to have something at the end- I think it would help the team. We will see- but expect a twist or two tonight.

[Troublemaker]

It looks like odds makers have uncheat favored by 3.5 to 4 points, based on which bookie you look at. I know someone will post the odds on the betting thread later today. If we're not worn down by the 10 minute mark in the 2nd half, we win. If we're worn down, then it could be a bad day. The losses to State and Cuse put us in this spot. So, Next Play. GoDuke!

If we find ourselves waning at any point in this game, THEN we should spring the zone against them. Maybe it'll catch them off guard and we can rest in the zone for a bit.

The zone probably works best as a curveball maneuver. As Coach K said, we didn't even play the zone all that well. I haven't rewatched the game yet like others, but I recall the corners being wide open. We don't have a strong curveball here. But if we lead up to it by throwing lots of fastball, THEN maybe the curveball will work.

I am hoping Duke plays loose and with some energy. K would do well to be creative today. If he could play some of the other guys (Vrank, White etc)- just to allow his starters to have something at the end- I think it would help the team. We will see- but expect a twist or two tonight.

We need to throw the kitchen sink at them to hopefully make up for the rest advantage. Not sure we're going to play Vrank or White, but I do think shifting defenses is possible.

[Saratoga2]

The selection committee is supposed to take injuries (or any other reason for missing players) into account.

We are 1-2 without Grayson Allen (W-Maine, L-at Virginia Tech, L-at Miami)

We are 0-2 without Amile Jefferson (L- at FSU, L- at Louisville)

We are 7-1 without Jayson Tatum (L-Kansas)

That's five our eight losses in games where we were missing a key player. Not counting the games we played without Giles, Bolden, Jeter (and one game without Frank Jackson).

I don't know how the committee judges the seven games we played without Coach K (we were 4-3 in those games).

At any rate, we SHOULD be rated higher than our 25-8 record.

PS I just checked up on the ACC scoring race. Michael Young of Pitt finishes his season with 648 points in 33 games -- an average of 19.6 ppg. After today's game, Luke has 667 points in his 33 games -- 20.2 ppg. As long as he doesn't have a disastrous game going forward, he's going to be the ACC scoring leader (Duke's first since Nolan Smith in 2011)

Luke also needs just 37 more points to crack Duke's top 10 single-season scoring totals (Gman in 1980 is 20th at 704 points).

I expect Frank Jackson to have a big day against UNC. He is relatively fresh and is one of the few players we have that can break people down off the dribble. Reasonably good games by Luke and Jayson are likely and if Frank and Grayson can hit double figures we are very competitive here. Harry having a good game also would likely put us into the win column.

[CDu]

I know I was there for one of those games in Atlanta at an ACC tournament. What are the other 2, please?

It happened in Atlanta thrice: the 1989 and 2001 ACC tourney finals. And again in 1929.

[Matches]

I am not sure this game can live up to the first two, but maybe it can. Will Duke play with tired legs or will they play with momentum? Will UNC be able to use their fresh legs to execute against Duke's zone and keep Duke from getting open looks from three? I would love to win the rubber match and I think UNC will.

I may be in the minority but I think too much is made of "tired legs". These guys are all well-conditioned athletes who are used to playing basketball virtually every day. I doubt there has been an injury-free week in any of their lives where they didn't play basketball 3-4 days in a row since they were very young kids.

I do think emotional fatigue can set in and affect folks physically but I think that's different for every kid and isn't necessarily correlated to playing a certain number of games or minutes.

Look, I'm a creaky, unathletic 43 year old man and I can work out 3-4 days in a row without wearing out. I find it very hard to believe Jayson Tatum or Justin Jackson can't do likewise.

[bluenorth]

I may be in the minority but I think too much is made of "tired legs". These guys are all well-conditioned athletes who are used to playing basketball virtually every day. I doubt there has been an injury-free week in any of their lives where they didn't play basketball 3-4 days in a row since they were very young kids.

I do think emotional fatigue can set in and affect folks physically but I think that's different for every kid and isn't necessarily correlated to playing a certain number of games or minutes.

Look, I'm a creaky, unathletic 43 year old man and I can work out 3-4 days in a row without wearing out. I find it very hard to believe Jayson Tatum or Justin Jackson can't do likewise.

My feeling is that all the little bumps and bruises over the course of a season take their toll. The cumulative effect can be very hard on a player, so you can't over-estimate the advantage that UNC gets from an extra day's rest, and then a relatively easy game yesterday. I'd expect that the adrenaline early in the game will have both teams going full blast. After that the fatigue sets in. If we start missing free throws (assuming we get to the line - refs!) that'll be a bad sign. Coach K will need to manage the pace of the game so that we have something left for the end-game.

[DukieInBrasil]

Yeah, UNC actually plays well against zone. They're able to find their big men along the baseline for layups and lob dunks. Plus, the offensive rebounding, and the fact that Berry and Jackson have very deep range and really stretch out the zone, making it difficult to play.

This isn't to say Duke shouldn't give it a shot if m2m isn't working, but thank you for not being knee-jerk about the zone. Duke will almost certainly start out playing m2m, and I hope we don't switch a guard onto Hicks as often as we did in Chapel Hill. I'm also not a big fan of doubling the post, which has burnt us too often in recent games. Front their big men, or play from behind and see if they can finish over the top enough to make us do something else, especially when the young bigs with size are in the game.

Doubling UL's post was a disaster. When Jefferson fronts Meeks he can't get the ball or score. Hicks is more mobile, and Tatum had big problems with him. I wonder if, due to his improved performance yesterday, Giles is called on to defend Hicks. That would put Jackson on Tatum etc. However, when teams have gone small against us they have really torched us as our backcourt is just not that good defensively. Jones does a great job, but he's too big and slow to guard Berry 1on1. Jackson is really our only guard who can match up well with Berry and he's just not wiley enough to keep up with Joel.
Overall, though, i think our main strategy is going to be keeping the pace of the game slow A) to preserve our own legs, but also to B) prevent what Cheaterlina does best. I don't think zone is the answer as it allows for too many Oboards and that is where the Cheaters thrive. I don't see their 3pt shooting as a particular dagger, although Berry has been on fire lately from deep, but points in the paint is where they really win big.

[TKG]

I just hope we have the legs to get through tomorrow. Because I think that - with Allen finding himself again - we present serious matchup problems for UNC. Let's hope we can muster the energy to get the win!

I hate to write this but I think we come out on the wrong side of this one and by double digits. Had we not played two games in two days (Tatum played 39 minutes and 38 minutes; Luke played 38 and 39), I would like our chances in Brooklyn. The Holes will be just a bit fresher and Roy will throw a 9-10 players at us. I expect us to stay with them for the first 30 minutes but then fade in the final 10.

Let me know where I need to send my DBR membership card.

[DukieInBrasil]

If we find ourselves waning at any point in this game, THEN we should spring the zone against them. Maybe it'll catch them off guard and we can rest in the zone for a bit.

The zone probably works best as a curveball maneuver. As Coach K said, we didn't even play the zone all that well. I haven't rewatched the game yet like others, but I recall the corners being wide open. We don't have a strong curveball here. But if we lead up to it by throwing lots of fastball, THEN maybe the curveball will work.



We need to throw the kitchen sink at them to hopefully make up for the rest advantage. Not sure we're going to play Vrank or White, but I do think shifting defenses is possible.

they were wide open, but having Tatum close out on their much smaller shooters bothered them a lot, so maybe they weren't as open as they (and we) thought.
Putting Vrank or Jack or any of our other nearly endless unused depth to steal a few seconds of rest before mandated under-(insert time) tv timeouts might be a really good idea here. Of course the clock has to stop at the right times for that to work. K didn't really do that yesterday (manipulate substitutions to maximize tv to's) due to the tightness of the game, but the game situations today may make that a good move.

[Matches]

Doubling UL's post was a disaster. When Jefferson fronts Meeks he can't get the ball or score. Hicks is more mobile, and Tatum had big problems with him. I wonder if, due to his improved performance yesterday, Giles is called on to defend Hicks. That would put Jackson on Tatum etc. However, when teams have gone small against us they have really torched us as our backcourt is just not that good defensively. Jones does a great job, but he's too big and slow to guard Berry 1on1. Jackson is really our only guard who can match up well with Berry and he's just not wiley enough to keep up with Joel.

The best strategy against Hicks IMO is get him in foul trouble and get him out of the game. The problem is that Roy will hide Hicks on Matt Jones defensively, and we really need Matt in the game to guard Justin Jackson. It might be worth it to sit Matt some early, even if it means JJ gets going, in order to put pressure on Hicks defensively and get him out of the game.

[brevity]

I hate to write this but I think we come out on the wrong side of this one and by double digits. Had we not played two games in two days (Tatum played 39 minutes and 38 minutes; Luke played 38 and 39), I would like our chances in Brooklyn. The Holes will be just a bit fresher and Roy will throw a 9-10 players at us. I expect us to stay with them for the first 30 minutes but then fade in the final 10.

Let me know where I need to send my DBR membership card.

Relax, that's not how we do things around here anymore. Just run your DBR membership card through the shredder and post a picture of the remains.

[ChillinDuke]

It was a heavy UNC crowd today. Maybe with the game being after regular work hours tomorrow, Duke will have more fans in the building.

I think that's a very safe bet. I know 8 people personally that are going tonight that didn't go yesterday. And quite a few more that are actively shopping.

Every little bit helps.

- Chillin

[DukieInBrasil]

I hate to write this but I think we come out on the wrong side of this one and by double digits. Had we not played two games in two days (Tatum played 39 minutes and 38 minutes; Luke played 38 and 39), I would like our chances in Brooklyn. The Holes will be just a bit fresher and Roy will throw a 9-10 players at us. I expect us to stay with them for the first 30 minutes but then fade in the final 10.

Let me know where I need to send my DBR membership card.

UL played 11 in the first half, didn't help them. I was worried yesterday that the legs were going to give out in the last 10 minutes, instead that's precisely when we started winning the game. Hard to predict the future, but yesterday's play gives me hope. Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies.

[bluenorth]

It would be interesting to know what kind of things the team does post-game to help their bodies to recover. The obvious ones are icing sore knees and ankles, and replacing liquids/electrolytes. But does the team have access to a massage therapist, a chiropractor, or any other wellness people? Hyperbaric chambers were big a couple of years ago for some pros. Knowing the depth of preparation that major programs go to now, I wonder what Duke does in this situation. Any insights out there?