MBB: Duke 79, Clemson 72 (ACCT) Post Game Thread

[flyingdutchdevil]

Well, the bench didn't play well today, but things can easily change for them tomorrow. I wouldn't say we have no bench. I felt bad for Marques because he was first inserted into the game with Clemson in the bonus, and then his teammates couldn't stop fouling. Grayson had his loose ball foul, loose ball foul, technical foul sequence that submarined Duke's lead and momentum towards the end of the first half. Oh well. Tomorrow's another day, and it could go differently for those guys against Louisville.

Good win today. I was impressed that we weathered a very poor shooting day from three to control most of the game with solid defense (aside from Clemson taking advantage of our double-team too much) and with Frank, Jayson, Luke, and Amile scoring around the basket.

That's the beauty of the ACC Tournament; it's a new day to prove what you can do.

And I like our chances that at least 2 of the following happen:

1) Grayson goes off and scores a crap load of points
2) Giles plays D well enough to warrant extended minutes and also scores at least 8 points
3) Luke shoots well in the first half AND the second half
4) Matt Jones hits at least 2 3pters
5) Tatum shoots at least 40% from 3pt land

None of these happened today. But they can easily happen tomorrow!

[BandAlum83]

Huh? What play was that? He had 0 points.

He crashed the board for a put back, didn't hit it and got called for the foul.

He tracked the play and released on the shot and almost made it. I don't necessarily agree with the foul call, but it wasn't outlandish.

It was this play that preceded the T. I didn't say he successfully completed the put back, but sorry if I wasn't clear enough. I thought anyone who watched the game would understand the play I referenced.

[COYS]

The T was not that big of a deal. If he had caught the ball, he probably wouldn't have been Td up. Did his frustration reveal anything other than his competitiveness? I think not.

Yeah, while the ref could T him up for that based on the letter of the law, it was a REALLY soft whistle, especially since his outburst wasn't even directed at a referee or an opposing player. The whistle was even slightly delayed. What was interesting is that on the replay, neither the Clemson players on the court nor the players on the bench were even looking for a tech against him. Even the Clemson student section, which was in the background of the replay, were completely caught off guard by the whistle, though they loved it, of course. I won't argue against the ref because it was a pretty obvious outburst and he kind-of-sort-of spiked the ball, which is an automatic tech, but if that's the worst thing Grayson does on the court, I'm not too worried. I doubt that gets called again this season. And, at least we won the game, so Grayson gets a reminder that he's on a short leash with the refs in a situation that didn't hurt us.

[mr. synellinden]

Matt is 2-16 his last five games shooting from 3 point range.

I have a sixth sense kind of feeling he might have a 4-6; 5-7 kind of game in him tomorrow. Just a hunch.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Matt is 2-16 his last five games shooting from 3 point range.

I have a sixth sense kind of feeling he might have a 4-6; 5-7 kind of game in him tomorrow. Just a hunch.

This is Matt Jones's MO. He either shoots lights out or produces dogs offensively.

But his defense? Now that's a thing of beauty.

[RPS]

Well, the bench didn't play well today, but things can easily change for them tomorrow.

They could and I hope they do. But there is little reason to expect it. Grayson is still averaging over 30 minutes per game for the season but hasn't played 30 minutes in any of the past six games, partly due to injury (I assume). The past three games have seen him play 16, 23 and 12 minutes. No other bench player is getting close to that many minutes.

Luke had a very poor first half today but was allowed to play himself out of it and had a terrific second half. He has earned that right. I'd give Grayson the same opportunity.

[rsvman]

The first half was scary, and it showed what can happen if Luke isn't Luke.
Frank looked good except for the two late missed free throws.

On to the next game, though. A win is a win.

[Hauerwas]

Any ACC tourney win is a good won, and the fact that we had to make free throws and get stops at the under 1:00 mark is huge.

Just a weird season and this game was a microcosm of the entire year in the following ways.
1. Grayson acted like a child and got a T, took one very bad three that lead to poor defensive transition and his emotions caused a huge swing in the game that really could have cost us the L. His inability to move on to the 'next play' at this point in his career is sad.
2. Giles makes a stellar play only to be followed by horrible fouls and being utterly lost on pick n roll. He looks like a deer in headlights still at times, which again is just sad based on how hyped he was.
3. Bolden looks confused, reactionary and just completely overwhelmed
4. Matt Jones plays great D, but can't throw it in the ocean
5. Amile is an absolute rock.
6. Tatum played like a pro
7. Luke is just an absolute joy to watch, so crafty, I'm shocked every time he actually misses a jumper it's so pretty
8. We still cannot guard the straight line drive, it's actually comical how bad we are at moving our feet.
9. Our rebounding is much better than last year but still not a great strength
10. If we hit 3's we win, if not, it's a dog fight.
11. Jackson's penetration, and ability to finish at the rim is a difference maker when things stall, so impressed with that kid, and he has a swagger.

[ChillinDuke]

Yeah, while the ref could T him up for that based on the letter of the law, it was a REALLY soft whistle, especially since his outburst wasn't even directed at a referee or an opposing player. The whistle was even slightly delayed. What was interesting is that on the replay, neither the Clemson players on the court nor the players on the bench were even looking for a tech against him. Even the Clemson student section, which was in the background of the replay, were completely caught off guard by the whistle, though they loved it, of course. I won't argue against the ref because it was a pretty obvious outburst and he kind-of-sort-of spiked the ball, which is an automatic tech, but if that's the worst thing Grayson does on the court, I'm not too worried. I doubt that gets called again this season. And, at least we won the game, so Grayson gets a reminder that he's on a short leash with the refs in a situation that didn't hurt us.

In a vacuum, I agree with you.

I. Grayson tried to get his own putback and looked like he hit one of the Clemson players. I thought that was a fair foul call, if still frustrating because (a) he missed a reasonable bunny and (b) it wasn't a glaring foul. Move on.

II. Grayson tried to time a putback and looked like he scraped the arm of a Clemson player. I thought that was a fair foul call on a player trying to make a major mark on a game off the bench. Move on.

Scenario I was, IMO, a good one. He tried an athletic move, missed a makeable shot, but showed tenacity and desire.

Scenario II was, IMO, a bad one. He did a similar thing to Scenario I. What was the major difference? He didn't move on.

Grayson needs to learn to move on. "Next play" if you will. In a vacuum, I agree that his tenacity and bulldog mentality is a fantastic trait. But we don't play (nor live) in a vacuum. People are going to do and say things, players are going to do and say things, refs are going to call things. He needs to learn to adapt to this new normal. That's what the best players do: adapt. Grayson's inability to do that this season, I believe, is impacting his draft stock more than his shots not falling. The #1 question for him entering this season, if you all remember the offseason on the Board, was, "Can Grayson Allen learn a new role, a potentially less prominent scoring role, on effectively a new team?" The answer to that question has largely been no. And unfortunately, the answer to the first four words in that question has been no.

That tech was a game impacting play. I'm not gonna fault the ref there. He was watching when it happened in reasonable proximity. I apologize if this sounds like bashing - that's not the intent. I think it's the honest truth of the situation - at least from my vantage point. I'm still rooting for him just like most of you around here, but man it's through a grimace.

- Chillin

[gofurman]

It's been lingering since December and apparently worse than ever this second week of March. Not very likely he'll be in top form for the Big Dance, unless he takes a shot.

True but Grayson was great vs UNC etc. Great So i don't think his injuries are all if it - today some was attitude. Some was injuries. Let him rest the ankle and play hard for 20+ minutes in NCAA games. Just my .02

[Karl Beem]

Is there another kind of Tatum? Kid has been great all year (once he got on the court anyway).

I beg to differ. Too often he has dominated the ball, didn't pass and took fade away 2ptrs. His D was often lacking.

[devildeac]

Yeah, while the ref could T him up for that based on the letter of the law, it was a REALLY soft whistle, especially since his outburst wasn't even directed at a referee or an opposing player. The whistle was even slightly delayed. What was interesting is that on the replay, neither the Clemson players on the court nor the players on the bench were even looking for a tech against him. Even the Clemson student section, which was in the background of the replay, were completely caught off guard by the whistle, though they loved it, of course. I won't argue against the ref because it was a pretty obvious outburst and he kind-of-sort-of spiked the ball, which is an automatic tech, but if that's the worst thing Grayson does on the court, I'm not too worried. I doubt that gets called again this season. And, at least we won the game, so Grayson gets a reminder that he's on a short leash with the refs in a situation that didn't hurt us.

Now, let me know when any other acc player slams the ball to the floor after a bad play/call and/or lets loose with a wanker-worthy expression and gets the T. Not arguing the call on GA, I just want consistency, sorely lacking in acc officiating.

[gam7]

Maybe more appropriate for the pre-game thread, but I think this was mentioned on the broadcast and it is confirmed by Clemson's kenpom page - Clemson is dead last in D1 (ranked #351) in free throw percentage defense. Opponents this season have shot 76.7% against them. That's incredible and must be frustrating given how Clemson's season has gone.

[Steven43]

Marques looked out of sorts. Giles did not look great either. I hope one of these guys can step it up if we want to make it to Saturday.

It is quite possible that Bolden may never become the high level of player he was projected to be coming out of high school. Many top 50 and even top 25 players don't turn out to be good in college. There is no way to accurately project that sort of thing. I'm not saying that's the case, just that it's starting to seem more possible than I had previously thought.

Giles has probably been robbed of a good bit of his basketball-related skill and athleticism due to his severe injuries. It is exactly what I feared when he suffered the second ACL tear. Never seen a basketball player return to previous form after two such injuries. There's likely nothing more mysterious to it than that. It happens.

To that end it's quite possible that Jabari will not return to his previous level after suffering his second ACL tear. Maybe he'll be among the first. I certainly hope so. I am a huge fan of his and have followed almost all of his game results since he became an NBA player. It really ruined my day when his latest injury occurred. And every time I have thought about it since then I get bummed out. Injuries suck.

[CDu]

They could and I hope they do. But there is little reason to expect it. Grayson is still averaging over 30 minutes per game for the season but hasn't played 30 minutes in any of the past six games, partly due to injury (I assume). The past three games have seen him play 16, 23 and 12 minutes. No other bench player is getting close to that many minutes.

Luke had a very poor first half today but was allowed to play himself out of it and had a terrific second half. He has earned that right. I'd give Grayson the same opportunity.

Not partly due to injury. Entirely due to injury. Allen badly sprained his ankle very early against Clemson in Cameron and then reinjured that ankle against UVa. In the subsequent games including that Clemson game, Allen has shot 2-10, 2-10, 3-8, 1-3, 2-4, and 0-4 with a DNP against Miami. Allen's struggles are 100% correlated - and in this case 100% caused - by his ankle injury.

[COYS]

That tech was a game impacting play. I'm not gonna fault the ref there. He was watching when it happened in reasonable proximity. I apologize if this sounds like bashing - that's not the intent. I think it's the honest truth of the situation - at least from my vantage point. I'm still rooting for him just like most of you around here, but man it's through a grimace.

- Chillin

Right but here's the thing, sometimes it helps to have a quick moment of catharsis. Players do exactly what Grayson did all the time. Except they usually catch the ball. I didn't have a problem with the foul call that precipitated the tech. Grayson was frustrated at himself it seemed to me, had his moment of catharsis (which, as I said was probably a little too demonstrative but nothing horribly worrying to my eyes), and actually seemed ready to move on. He didn't even react poorly when the tech was called. I completely agree that Grayson needs to be extra cautious. I don't fault the ref, as I mentioned, even if I think it was a relatively soft tech that doesn't get called on any other player on the court. But I also didn't view this as a moment of "oh no, Grayson lost his cool." It was a dead ball. He didn't direct his anger at anyone except himself. He wasn't loafing it down the court to get back on defense or anything like that. And, as I mentioned, he even stayed calm after the tech was called. I hope Grayson doesn't do it again. But the punishment on the court (a personal foul and a four-point possession for Clemson) was much worse than the crime, in my opinion.

[DangerDevil]

Yeah, while the ref could T him up for that based on the letter of the law, it was a REALLY soft whistle, especially since his outburst wasn't even directed at a referee or an opposing player. The whistle was even slightly delayed. What was interesting is that on the replay, neither the Clemson players on the court nor the players on the bench were even looking for a tech against him. Even the Clemson student section, which was in the background of the replay, were completely caught off guard by the whistle, though they loved it, of course. I won't argue against the ref because it was a pretty obvious outburst and he kind-of-sort-of spiked the ball, which is an automatic tech, but if that's the worst thing Grayson does on the court, I'm not too worried. I doubt that gets called again this season. And, at least we won the game, so Grayson gets a reminder that he's on a short leash with the refs in a situation that didn't hurt us.

The person that was watching the entire sequence was the ref that called the T, that is what I thought made the call so weak.

Should Grayson have pounded the ball and yelled, no. Does it meet the letter of the law, probably. But if you saw the entire sequence, was Grayson trying to show anyone up, especially the Refs or complain? I don't think so. Was he taunting anyone? I don't think so. I think if you are the Ref and you see the whole sequence you let it go, maybe give him a verbal warning or a look that says knock it off.

I know I wear Duke Blue tinted glasses but i thought the reaction to the block on a Clemson big man (by the player and bench) a few minutes earlier was much more demonstrative especially towards the officials and the call.

Grayson's tech today is probably a result of all the scrutiny that has been placed on him. That is an entirely different discussion on where the blame should fall for that.

I wish we would have closed them out earlier, happy we got the W, and look forward to a better performance (by Grayson and the whole team), and another W!

[gofurman]

Maybe more appropriate for the pre-game thread, but I think this was mentioned on the broadcast and it is confirmed by Clemson's kenpom page - Clemson is dead last in D1 (ranked #351) in free throw percentage defense. Opponents this season have shot 76.7% against them. That's incredible and must be frustrating given how Clemson's season has gone.

It's crazy. The Tigers lost to VT by one point at Clemson. Vt shot 16-17 from the Ft line. I bet vt hasn't done that since. Feel bad for them and Brownell

If they get an NIT bid I hope they win a few.

[CDu]

It's been lingering since December and apparently worse than ever this second week of March. Not very likely he'll be in top form for the Big Dance, unless he takes a shot.

No, they are different injuries. In December he had turf toe. He had recovered from that and was healthy in January into early February. Then against Clemson he badly sprained his ankle. He then rolled it AGAIN against UVa. He has been trying to recover since (about 4 weeks). So it it is, in fact, quite possible for Allen to get healthy again in the tourney.

[Dukehky]

I would just like to give big ups to Chase Jeter. He hasn't played since January, we don't know what the future holds for him, but he is on the bench rooting on his teammates as hard if not harder than anyone else on that bench.

This season has certainly not been easy on him. He got 2 top 10 recruits come in at his position, he was playing early, he got hurt, and since he put his jersey back on, he hasn't come into the game, but he's been right there with the guys the whole way. We've all seen him play and he's as competitive as anyone on our roster, but to stay positive that whole time, pretty incredible.

Thanks, Chase. You are what is right with Duke basketball and the world in general.