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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by devil84 View Post
    ... To me, 'cue is done with real smoke outdoors. Pulled pork, which is similar to 'cue, is NOT 'cue ...
    We've seen over the years that discussing bbq can be difficult due to how passionately folks feel -- but if we've moved to the realm of creating our own personal definitions, discussions may become darn near impossible!

    Think this thread will lead me to make some 'cue in the crockpot this weekend.

  2. #62
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Raleigh
    Quote Originally Posted by Reilly View Post
    We've seen over the years that discussing bbq can be difficult due to how passionately folks feel -- but if we've moved to the realm of creating our own personal definitions, discussions may become darn near impossible!

    Think this thread will lead me to make some 'cue in the crockpot this weekend.

    Yea, kinda like a certain institution's benchmark of academic integrity, or lack thereof...
    [redacted] them and the horses they rode in on.

  3. #63
    You should try Bo Ssam. Sort of Korean 'cue of a sort, with Kimchi, Sriracha, Bread and Butter pickles, Ssam sauce, and Ginger-Scallion Sauce.

    https://cooking.nytimes.com/recipes/...ofukus-bo-ssam


    2014_iconic_meats_bo_ssam__2.0.jpg
    ~rthomas

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by rthomas View Post
    You should try Bo Ssam. Sort of Korean 'cue of a sort, with Kimchi, Sriracha, Bread and Butter pickles, Ssam sauce, and Ginger-Scallion Sauce.

    https://cooking.nytimes.com/recipes/...ofukus-bo-ssam


    2014_iconic_meats_bo_ssam__2.0.jpg
    That looks very interesting. Going to have to try that out when the weather cools off.

  5. #65
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by Reilly View Post
    We've seen over the years that discussing bbq can be difficult due to how passionately folks feel -- but if we've moved to the realm of creating our own personal definitions, discussions may become darn near impossible!

    Think this thread will lead me to make some 'cue in the crockpot this weekend.
    Wait...this isn't my personal definition. It's one I've heard A LOT, and I've been sternly corrected too many times. Let me quote from Holy Smoke, page 8:
    So what is North Carolina barbecue? It's not just whatever is served in North Carolina and called barbecue. Let's start with a definition, keeping in mind that there is perhaps a little room for argument here and there and that there are exceptions to any rule. (This is the South, after all.) The definition comes in three parts. We are talking about meat
    1. that has been barbecued -- that is, cooked for a long time at a low temperature with heat and smoke from a fire of hardwood and/or hardwood coals;
    2. that meat being pork -- whole hog, shoulder, or (occasionally) ham ---
    3. sometimes basted and always served with a thin sauce or "dip" that is at most only a slight variation on a traditional recipe including vinegar, red pepper, and maybe (or maybe not) tomato.

    Yes, there's more to be said about each of these, but let's not start arguing just yet. Got it? Pork, wood-cooked in a leisurely way, served with a traditional, vinegar-based sauce.
    Ergo, "'cue" is the stuff from a pig cooker, grill, or smoker, cooked outside over wood or wood products. The stuff from the crockpot is "pulled pork." They are similar and both are delicious. Pulled pork is a much easier delicacy to make, since one doesn't have to tend to wood fires. But purists have pounded it into me that barbecue needs combusting wood to cook.

    Semantics aside, low and slow cooked pork is absolutely wonderful and should be eaten often. If you want to call it 'cue, g'head. But I've lost that argument too many times!

  6. #66
    This is long, but fairly interesting, on battles over the word over time: http://amazingribs.com/BBQ_articles/...e_defined.html

    And here's the definition of "barbecued meats" from the Code of Federal Regulations (with a post-cooking weight requirement): https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/9/319.80

    As the first link quotes at the beginning, dictionaries keep track of usages over time. You see the same thing with Bryan Garner ("Garner's Modern English Usage") and his language change index. To me, "barbecue" is pork cooked low and slow (even in a crockpot) served with a vinegar-based sauce. To a Texan, "barbecue" may mean something else entirely. And if pig were cooked over a fire (note, the first link above notes that some contend that if it's only smoked, then *that* is not barbecue) but dressed up differently than with vinegar-based sauce, I may not consider that "barbecue." I'll go ahead and call the crockpot version 'cue -- adding my usage to the language-change tides.
    Last edited by Reilly; 09-08-2017 at 11:34 AM.

  7. #67
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Vermont
    Quote Originally Posted by devil84 View Post
    Wait...this isn't my personal definition. It's one I've heard A LOT, and I've been sternly corrected too many times. Let me quote from Holy Smoke, page 8:


    Ergo, "'cue" is the stuff from a pig cooker, grill, or smoker, cooked outside over wood or wood products. The stuff from the crockpot is "pulled pork." They are similar and both are delicious. Pulled pork is a much easier delicacy to make, since one doesn't have to tend to wood fires. But purists have pounded it into me that barbecue needs combusting wood to cook.

    Semantics aside, low and slow cooked pork is absolutely wonderful and should be eaten often. If you want to call it 'cue, g'head. But I've lost that argument too many times!
    It is also true that MANY Q places (I would say most) no longer cook outside over wood...Many of them have big kitchen machines that don't even smoke...i always try to peek at what they're doing in the back of the store...I personally don't quibble with the distinction you're making, but quite a few places revered for their Q don't do the wood thing any more. More evidence of robots taking over!

  8. #68
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by budwom View Post
    It is also true that MANY Q places (I would say most) no longer cook outside over wood...Many of them have big kitchen machines that don't even smoke...i always try to peek at what they're doing in the back of the store...I personally don't quibble with the distinction you're making, but quite a few places revered for their Q don't do the wood thing any more. More evidence of robots taking over!
    A number of municipalities forbid cooking with wood or charcoal as a primary fuel, so yeah, it's tough to do. But, the definition I quoted would also include gas or electricity augmented with wood smoke. Commercial pellet smokers meet that definition, which are just giant 'cue making robots!

    The butts I've done in my smokers (one charcoal, the other gas with wood chips or chunks) are definitely a different product than what I've done in my oven or crock pot. I certainly won't turn down pulled pork from the oven or crock pot! But the stuff from the smoker is another level of awesome.

    But it seems that on this list, I'm outvoted that smoke isn't required for barbecue. In real life, I've been thoroughly chastised and soundly corrected by a number of friends and neighbors for allowing a definition of barbecue that doesn't include smoke. So, I think I'll just bow out now admitting that I don't have a clue what constitutes 'cue anymore.

  9. #69
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Vermont
    Quote Originally Posted by devil84 View Post
    A number of municipalities forbid cooking with wood or charcoal as a primary fuel, so yeah, it's tough to do. But, the definition I quoted would also include gas or electricity augmented with wood smoke. Commercial pellet smokers meet that definition, which are just giant 'cue making robots!

    The butts I've done in my smokers (one charcoal, the other gas with wood chips or chunks) are definitely a different product than what I've done in my oven or crock pot. I certainly won't turn down pulled pork from the oven or crock pot! But the stuff from the smoker is another level of awesome.

    But it seems that on this list, I'm outvoted that smoke isn't required for barbecue. In real life, I've been thoroughly chastised and soundly corrected by a number of friends and neighbors for allowing a definition of barbecue that doesn't include smoke. So, I think I'll just bow out now admitting that I don't have a clue what constitutes 'cue anymore.
    I'm not at all saying you're wrong...it's just that as with a lot of things, the definition of stuff tends to change over time...in which case you get good points for being a purist...when I first got into Q at Duke many decades ago, almost all the
    Q joints included "pit cooked" in their nomenclature...I see very little of that these days.

  10. #70
    First time trying pulled pork in the crock pot. Came out as many of you described, tender and tasty without smoke. Very easy and tasty. Paired with he arrogant bastard southern charred provided some oak background. Thanks...

  11. #71

    Squaw Sticks

    i have not read through the posts in this thread as yet (probably do it tonight). But having missed dinner last night, the subject line was a major distraction and as is my custom, i clicked on the last post first. Cooking with wood triggered a memory long forgotten. On another forum (The Gilder Technology Forum), i had written about an experience my spouse and i had had while young and adventurous and wandering around parts of Alaska on a shoestring. While only tangential to this thread, i thought some may enjoy a read. Here it is as originally written, circa 1980:


    madscavenger Ľ Fri Sep 07, 2012 5:28 pm

    In 1980 (might have been 81), my wife and i were in Alaska traveling the Richardson Highway, in the rain at night. We were looking for a campground and some place where we could grab a sandwich or something. Not much on the Richardson, except dead porcupines. Uh uh. We finally found one, pitched a tent in the rain (always fun) and drove back a couple miles in the Rent-a-Wreck (Alaska was one of the few states they did business in, but those beatup gas guzzlers were quite the bargain for this couple of vagabonds), to a set back roadside tavern we had passed whose single porch light was the only sign of its presence. The door was unlocked and it was dimly lit, but when i poked my head in i heard a voice welcoming us. They were actually closed, but the owner, a retired Chicago cop (hey, a homeboy), was standing behind the bar, a couple of friends having downed who knows how many shot-and-a-beers, adorning a couple of stools. He reached up and rang a bell. "Round on the house", he called out, our shot-and-a-beer appearing almost instantly. The second arrived almost as fast. When he rang the bell again, i told him we had to slow down a bit, cause we hadn't eaten all day. "Well hang on buddy", he said as he went in the back and fetched a couple of strips of salmon. He had a small smokehouse out back, where he smoked the salmon he caught over alder. He fillets them, cuts em into thin strips, does some other tricks (soaks in brine?, etc), and hangs them in the smokehouse for several days (at least). They need considerable drying. They're cold smoked, IIRC (course, i was a little gone by then). Squaw Sticks he called them. They come out kind of like jerky, only more fleshy; chewy, but not so tough. And its the best smoked anything we've ever had. But, the festivities were not yet complete. A couple more rounds (all on the house) and accompanying tall tales filled the time until the rain fell off some. We weren't exactly champing at the bit to head back and climb into not exactly high grade sleeping bags. The two friends, were mostly silent during all of this, here and there chipping in with a short story or two. i was really gone. If i leaned over, i swear i would have fallen off the stool. Then it happened. One of the owner's side kicks threw a Bowie knife at my left foot. Well it looked just like one and was about the same size; and sharp, it might as well have been one. It stuck in the wood floor, about two inches from the shoe. i was so drunk i wasn't even startled, just slowly turned my head a little, when the blade hit the floor, and immediately slowly back as if someone had dropped a dime or something. Never gave it a thought. Didn't even look up at him. The bell rang. My wife stood up, sort of, and tried to give them something for the Squaw Sticks. They refused. We had to get up just before dawn, 3-4 hours from now, she told them, to watch the fauna venture out. And it was raining, and we had to find the tent. We left, peed on the Rent-a-Wreck (same color ya know), and drove the car, if you call 5-10 mph driving, to the nearly deserted campground (deserted, except for the zillion or so mosquitos, two hard sided vehicles, and no other tents) and collapsed on the sleeping bags. On them, not in them. Did we beat the wildlife to the punch? Yes we did. Hell, we drank the punch, and thumbed our noses at them.

    This is the story of the Squaw Sticks. We still had another three weeks to go, however we only drank that much one other time that trip. Does that answer your question?
    The University of North Carolina
    Where CHEATING is a Way of Life

  12. #72
    Have any inmates here tried Chap's Pit Beef in Bmore?

    Holy moly, it's the authentic deal. Delicious smoked brisket and a bunch of assorted meats, sides. No fried okra, alas, but the banana pudding was nearly as good as my own.

    Interesting neighborhood, too. Right between the Gentlemen's Club, a video establishment specializing in "exotic" films, and, two used tire stores. It's nice to know that men of grace and strength are close by. Plus there were several cab drivers enjoying the sunny Sunday afternoon. Just in case someone should have an emergency, or something.

    It's legit!
    Nothing incites bodily violence quicker than a Duke fan turning in your direction and saying 'scoreboard.'

  13. #73
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Undisclosed
    Smoking a wagyu brisket for the first time this weekend. Any advice for those who have done so? Have heard that final temp will likely be higher than the CABs I usually use.

    Also, always have smoked fat cap down (I have a BGE so indirect heat still is below meat and not offset). Thoughts?

    Only my seventh or eighth brisket. Still working on it. Less forgiving a smoke than a pork butt, but damn it’s incredible when it works.
    "We're only tourists in this life
    Only tourists but the view is nice"

    -- David Byrne

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by OldPhiKap View Post
    Smoking a wagyu brisket for the first time this weekend. Any advice for those who have done so? Have heard that final temp will likely be higher than the CABs I usually use.

    Also, always have smoked fat cap down (I have a BGE so indirect heat still is below meat and not offset). Thoughts?

    Only my seventh or eighth brisket. Still working on it. Less forgiving a smoke than a pork butt, but damn itís incredible when it works.
    I have no answers but will be very interested to see your results.

    Where/how did you come across a wagyu brisket?

  15. #75
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Cincinnati
    Quote Originally Posted by OldPhiKap View Post
    Smoking a wagyu brisket for the first time this weekend. Any advice for those who have done so? Have heard that final temp will likely be higher than the CABs I usually use.

    Also, always have smoked fat cap down.
    Iíve tried a bunch of approaches but settled on Aaron Franklinís way. 275, wrapped in paper after about 6 hours. Pulled when it feels right. Around 203, but more to feel. Sits until back down to 140. My last waygu was just a tad underdone in places, so maybe a little longer is right, although I didnít let it sit long enough for poor planning reasons. I think the fat cap decision is right, keep it toward the heat. Oh, water pan and spritzing after 3 hours. But itís clearly more art than science.

    I kind of of like coming up with my own way of doing things but my results with Franklinís have been perfect. A prime 15lb from Costco was as good as Iíve ever had and I donít really know what Iím doing. Best of luck however you go about it!

  16. #76
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Undisclosed
    Quote Originally Posted by Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15 View Post
    I have no answers but will be very interested to see your results.

    Where/how did you come across a wagyu brisket?
    Ordered online for a special occasion from Snake River Farms in Idaho. There Re a handful of sources that ship. It is often Wagyu bred with something else and not pure wagyu. Marbling looks great.

    Quote Originally Posted by GDT View Post
    Iíve tried a bunch of approaches but settled on Aaron Franklinís way. 275, wrapped in paper after about 6 hours. Pulled when it feels right. Around 203, but more to feel. Sits until back down to 140. My last waygu was just a tad underdone in places, so maybe a little longer is right, although I didnít let it sit long enough for poor planning reasons. I think the fat cap decision is right, keep it toward the heat. Oh, water pan and spritzing after 3 hours. But itís clearly more art than science.

    I kind of of like coming up with my own way of doing things but my results with Franklinís have been perfect. A prime 15lb from Costco was as good as Iíve ever had and I donít really know what Iím doing. Best of luck however you go about it!
    I sort of follow Franklinís method as well óa proven winner. But always experimenting. Burnt ends are the best part, too!
    "We're only tourists in this life
    Only tourists but the view is nice"

    -- David Byrne

  17. #77
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    New Bern, NC unless it's a home football game then I'm grilling on Devil's Alley
    Happy Thanksgiving!

    BSJunior.jpg

    Turkey2017.jpg
    Q "Why do you like Duke, you didn't even go there." A "Because my art school didn't have a basketball team."

  18. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by CameronBornAndBred View Post
    Happy Thanksgiving!



    Gobble gobble!

    I'm probably being petty in another thread.

  19. #79
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Summerville ,S.C.
    Nice ?has it got a trailer hitch?no im not going to pilfer it lol.

  20. #80
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    New Bern, NC unless it's a home football game then I'm grilling on Devil's Alley
    Quote Originally Posted by wavedukefan70s View Post
    Nice ?has it got a trailer hitch?no im not going to pilfer it lol.
    That grill was actually a total dump score. We were making a trash run and an older couple had that on their trailer.
    Girlfriend "They are throwing that out."
    Me "Um, no, that's a Grill Man Grill, they ain't tossing that."
    GF "I think they are."

    Guy drives up with a forklift and begins to pick it up.

    Me very quickly "Are y'all throwing that away?"
    Older gentleman "Yeah, we don't use it anymore and the gas doesn't work."
    Me to forklift driver "Park it right here on my trailer!"

    A trip to Lowes the next morning for a new regulator equaled bbq for dinner. Grill Man (based in New Bern but has a stall inside the flea market at the Raleigh grounds) still makes that same model, sells for about $1,500. I made sure to give it an appropriate Duke toned paint job. I am converting it to charcoal, but until I do, I use a metal basket to hold my briquettes and wood to ensure plenty of smoke. I'm not doing away with the propane entirely since it is way convenient to have as an option. I did our entire Thanksgiving dinner on it today. I'm stuffed.
    Q "Why do you like Duke, you didn't even go there." A "Because my art school didn't have a basketball team."

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