Star Wars: Rogue One SPOILER THREAD!

[JasonEvans]

This will be the place where we discuss the film with the assumption that all readers have actually seen the movie. Eventually, once the movie has been out for a bit, we will merge with the other Rogue One thread.

In the mean time, I post the following questions and observations --

1) Darth Vader removing his mask to kiss the sleeping Princess Leia was creepy and unnecessary. He doesn't know she is his daughter at that point, does he?!?! This is a problem!
2) I have no problem with Saw Guerra (Forrest Whitaker) dying, but having him get stepped on by an Imperial Walker seemed unusually cruel, especially the squishing sound... eeeewwwww!
3) I love that K2SO's consciousness gets to live on in R2D2.
4) Cassian piloting a star destroyer into the base was the perfect way for him to die. I know Jyn thought there was a way out, but he had to be sure and that was the only way.
5) So, when Jyn caresses her stomach at the end, she is totally implying that Cassian still lives on within her, right? She's got to be pregnant.

-Jason "can't wait to talk to all of ya'll about it!" Evans

[duke74]

Call me silly, but I like spoilers generally. They give me a roadmap of nuanced actions and things to watch for that I would probably miss.

I assume most don't feel this way, but I appreciate the insights and keen eye.

Thanks, Jason!

[JasonEvans]

In case you had not guessed, the stuff I wrote above was all a joke. None of those are real spoilers... or are they?

[BandAlum83]

Jason, since this is the spoiler thread, can you explain how it fits into the Star Wars franchise?

I think I heard it takes place sometime before the original star wars, but by how much? The life spans of some of these characters within the force seem to be very long, so Darth Vader being in it may not mean much.

Also, geographically, do these characters / stories overlap characters and locations we know from leia, Han and co?

[JasonEvans]

Jason, since this is the spoiler thread, can you explain how it fits into the Star Wars franchise?

I think I heard it takes place sometime before the original star wars, but by how much? The life spans of some of these characters within the force seem to be very long, so Darth Vader being in it may not mean much.

Also, geographically, do these characters / stories overlap characters and locations we know from leia, Han and co?

The film takes place immediately before the events of the Original Star Wars. Do you recall the opening five minutes of that film, with Princess Leia putting some digital plans into R2D2 so he can take them to the rebellion? This film leads directly up to that moment. There are events in the beginning of the film that take place about a decade earlier, but the vast majority of the film is the weeks leading up to the start of "A New Hope."

In terms of geography, the story here mostly takes place on planets we have not yet visited in the previous films.

[bjornolf]

Jason, since this is the spoiler thread, can you explain how it fits into the Star Wars franchise?

I think I heard it takes place sometime before the original star wars, but by how much? The life spans of some of these characters within the force seem to be very long, so Darth Vader being in it may not mean much.

Also, geographically, do these characters / stories overlap characters and locations we know from leia, Han and co?

Well, I know Jason answered this, but even without it, we know Luke and Leia are in their late teens at the start of A New Hope, and they were born at the end of Revenge of the Sith, when Vader was created. So, we know that it takes place before ANH and after RotS, which is no more than a twenty year period. On top of that, previews have showed us that they're stealing the plans for the original death star, so it's gotta be in the last few years, maybe even months, before the events of ANH.

[fuse]

Just got back from seeing it.
Will definitely go see it again.

I did not see a planet with the lava- was Vader's fortress on Mustafar?
The healing tank was a creepy touch, and wow was he in full Vader video game mode boarding the Rebel ship.

I have mixed feelings about CGI Tarkin and Leia.
Really, really close to looking human, but not quite.
I also thought the voice actor for Tarkin was more off than on.

By contrast, the integration of Red Leader and Gold Leader from A New Hope was clever and well executed.

Also interesting that the Death Star was powered by Kyber crystals like Jedi lightsabres.

Even suspecting/knowing the end had to be tragic, I thought there was enough character development to make me care about them.

K2SO was a lot of fun, my younger son thought he was the best part of the movie.

What was up with the brain octopus thing, the pilot, and recovering from losing his mind.

We may never know what the original was supposed to be like before the reshoots. I did miss the "I rebel" speech from Jyn Erso in the trailer.

Lots more multidimensional real world shades of grey in the Rebellion. Heroism and cowardice (dissolve the Rebellion? What?) along with some shady leadership (if you find her father, kill him).

I knew in advance no opening crawl and no John Williams, and it did not take away from the Star Wars feel for me.

This may be the best part of the Lucasfilm sale to Disney. If they can keep the quality up, and keep cranking out good movies, I'm sold.

[Chicago 1995]

Just got back.

I loved it, as did my 9 year old. His biggest complaint? What happened to the death troopers so that they weren't in the Original Trilogy? My best friend and I think (1) they were an elite squad limited in number; and (2) Tarkin finished them off when he fired the Death Star at the end. He also loved the droid, FWIW.

Thought the battle scenes were great, and the movie had done enough that we felt each of the characters' sacrifices as the movie wound to and end. Liked that it was a more real war movie, with consequences and sacrifice and a not completely (or at all) happy ending and that the Rebellion was presented with some grey and some blood on their hands - like Andor for example in the beginning of the movie.

CGI didn't bother me. Loved the integration of the pilots. Thought Tarkin was better than Leia. Loved the battle scenes too.

Thiught the hallway scene at the end with Vader was great. Even knowing how it would end, it was still so menacing and brutal.

[IrishDevil]

Just got back, so more to come later, but long story short: I enjoyed it quite a lot, though mostly because the last third made up for a choppy, muddled first third/half. Kudos to Wander (I think) for calling the intentional design flaw in the Death Star courtesy of our heroine's father.

[Wander]

Kudos to Wander (I think) for calling the intentional design flaw in the Death Star courtesy of our heroine's father.

I did, but any credit gets erased by my also thinking Jyn would turn out to be Rey's mom. Oops.

While this movie gives Episode 4 a lot more weight, it also takes a bunch away from Episode 6. I really wish we could go back and time and remove the second and third death stars from Episodes 6 and 7. Make the last battle in Return of the Jedi a fight to take back Coruscant and kill the Emperor or something. The destruction of the original Death Star is such a monumental event in the series, a storyline that now runs through Episodes 2, 3, 3.5, and 4, and it makes the following superweapons seem like a cop-out.

Stormtroopers need to get their hands on that laser machine gun.

[JasonEvans]

I enjoyed it quite a lot, though mostly because the last third made up for a choppy, muddled first third/half. Kudos to Wander (I think) for calling the intentional design flaw in the Death Star courtesy of our heroine's father.

I'm glad folks are agreeing with me that the first half was sorta weak but the back half rocks. I think everything that happens with Saw Guerra is a complete waste and I have no idea what was going on with him using that octopus to tap into the imperial pilot's mind. That was some terrible storytelling right there.

That said, the blind monk taking out the stormtroopers and Darth Vader manhandling Princess Leia's guards were two of the best scenes in Star Wars history!!

-Jason "I love, love, love that the exhaust port design flaw was intentional. That's a great addition to the Star Wars canon" Evans

[Udaman]

Saw it today. Certainly have to agree with JE (and others) that from the moment the rebels arrive at the planet where the Death Star plans are held, it's a really good movie. Really good. And that the first half doesn't compare favorably to that at all. As with many movies like this, there were several things I liked and didn't like. I'll start negative

Didn't Like

* No opening music/credits. I try to stay spoiler free (and mostly did with this movie)...but I had read that fans were unhappy with the beginning doing something no other Star Wars movie had done, and so I had a feeling. And I think it was a mistake. The opening is part of Star Wars. Don't mess with that.

* Everything with Saw Guerra. Everything. His needing to take breaths. The torturing by the octopus thing. His comments to Jen Erso. I mean as JE said, it was just bad all around.

* Just about everything with Jen and her father. His message to her in the hologram was cheesy as hell.

* The first time we meet Vader. I like the tub...but his conversation with Orson left me wanting a more angry Vader

* Some unnecessary shout outs to former movies. Didn't like them running into the two people who Obi Wan attacked in the first Star Wars (just too cute...and highly unlikely).

* Call her Stardust. Sorry, but that's too much a ripoff of StarLord from Guardians of the Galaxy.

* That they keep screwing up with prior Star Wars timelines. In the first Star Wars (well, technically the 4th, but the original movie), when Vader attacks Leia's ship he says to them "Where are those transmissions you intercepted?" then the other guy says "We intercepted no transmissions." Vader then kills him saying "If this is a consular ship, where's the ambassador?" Then he talks to Leia and says to her "Several transmissions were beamed to this ship by rebel spies."

This is a HUGE issue for me...because in Rogue One that's not at all what happens. The plans are handed to someone. Vader sees it. Leia's ship is right there, in the middle of a Rebel attack. There's no way she could then pretend to say that they were on a Diplomatic Mission to Alderan. I mean this goes against the entire opening scene of Star Wars. And it's lazy. And unnecessary. This one aspect knocks the movie down a big notch for me...and is almost...ALMOST...enough for me to not like it. Clearly, as you can tell, this bothers me.

But...I liked a lot too.

* I loved K2SO. Great comedy. Well written.

* I loved that everyone dies. It's war. It's a suicide mission. There's no happy ending for them.

* I liked they brought Tarkin back (so cool) and Leia at the end. Yeah, they looked a little fake...but still.

* I liked the destructive force of the Death Star. Though the explosion force seemed to move slowly.

* Liked, as JE did, that the Death Star flaw was put in on purpose (though I didn't like how much they all admitted that...I mean you would think the Empire would have fixed it, though maybe they couldn't.

* And I LOVED angry Vader at the end. That scene alone was one of the best from any Star Wars movie ever. Vader at his baddest. This really made me think that they should just remake all the Star Wars movies again as well. Why not? I would watch them. Tweak them a little...but add a totally kick butt Vader in them. Or make a movie about him hunting down all the Jedi. He's the best bad guy in sci fi history, and this was him in full fury just smoking everyone (and the look on their faces when he walked in was great.

Overall, I enjoyed it. Clearly hated the changing of the overall story...but liked that it was ultimately a war movie, with no real happy ending other than the plans getting out. Will see it again in the theater for sure.

[Wander]

* Liked, as JE did, that the Death Star flaw was put in on purpose (though I didn't like how much they all admitted that...I mean you would think the Empire would have fixed it, though maybe they couldn't.

I would need to watch again to be sure, but I don't think the bad guys were ever made aware that the Death Star had a weakness... all they know is that something relating to the Death Star was leaked. It could, for example, have been a leak allowing the Rebels to build their own superlaser technology (or just something about Wake Forest's formations )

[JasonEvans]

I would need to watch again to be sure, but I don't think the bad guys were ever made aware that the Death Star had a weakness... all they know is that something relating to the Death Star was leaked. It could, for example, have been a leak allowing the Rebels to build their own superlaser technology (or just something about Wake Forest's formations )

And anyone who knew why the rebels were stealing the plans was probably killed when Grand Moff Tarkin used the Death Star to smoke that planet. I love that he got rid of his rival that way. The Empire is full of "take no prisoners and stomp of the throat of your enemy" kind of dudes.

[JasonEvans]

Didn't Like

* Some unnecessary shout outs to former movies. Didn't like them running into the two people who Obi Wan attacked in the first Star Wars (just too cute...and highly unlikely).

The flash of R2D2 and C3PO was groan-inducing. I truly wish those two droids were just gone for good. They were fine in Lucas' world, but we have moved beyond that at this point. I'm about 2 more lame jokes away from putting C3PO alongside JarJar as characters that I want to see ripped limb-from-limb by a Wookie.

* That they keep screwing up with prior Star Wars timelines. In the first Star Wars (well, technically the 4th, but the original movie), when Vader attacks Leia's ship he says to them "Where are those transmissions you intercepted?" then the other guy says "We intercepted no transmissions." Vader then kills him saying "If this is a consular ship, where's the ambassador?" Then he talks to Leia and says to her "Several transmissions were beamed to this ship by rebel spies."

This is a HUGE issue for me...because in Rogue One that's not at all what happens. The plans are handed to someone. Vader sees it. Leia's ship is right there, in the middle of a Rebel attack. There's no way she could then pretend to say that they were on a Diplomatic Mission to Alderan. I mean this goes against the entire opening scene of Star Wars. And it's lazy. And unnecessary. This one aspect knocks the movie down a big notch for me...and is almost...ALMOST...enough for me to not like it. Clearly, as you can tell, this bothers me.

Well, there was a transmission that was sent to the ship. The info was transmitted even if it was later loaded onto a drive and then placed into Leia's hands (and later put into R2D2). The transmissions were not intercepted, that's true, but I think we have to give them at least a little leeway to make a good movie.

But, you are right, it does not match perfectly with "A New Hope."

[PackMan97]

This felt like an old school WWII mission movie. Definitely dark and violent, what you expect in a war movie.

Very glad Jyn and Cassian didn't get romantic, again it's a war movie.

Who knew the Death Star had a low power setting?

I guess there won't be a Rougue Two, killing everyone is one way to keep down the talent budget

Definitely enjoyed it, but was surprised at the lack of applause, I think everyone was still stunned by the time the credits started to roll.

[freshmanjs]

This felt like an old school WWII mission movie. Definitely dark and violent, what you expect in a war movie.

Very glad Jyn and Cassian didn't get romantic, again it's a war movie.

Who knew the Death Star had a low power setting?

I guess there won't be a Rougue Two, killing everyone is one way to keep down the talent budget

Definitely enjoyed it, but was surprised at the lack of applause, I think everyone was still stunned by the time the credits started to roll.

There was applause at our theater. So bizarre. Why would anyone applaud for a projector and screen?

[OZZIE4DUKE]

There was applause at our theater. So bizarre. Why would anyone applaud for a projector and screen?

We saw it yesterday afternoon. I'm glad I read Jason's no spoiler thread first so I knew the action would pick up at the end. I/we liked it, but at a 7 or 8 out of 10 level. Not knowing the characters it took a while to get "into them". I did like the ending with young Princess Leia getting the technical readout to later give R2D2, although I'm disappointed we didn't see her actually make the recording, which would have garnered a "knowing nod" and a smile from me, that I saw the projection 39 years ago when I saw "A New Hope" for the first time in 1977. In fact, maybe I'll pull out my VHS copy of that and watch it again tonight, if the VCR still works!

As Jason said, no sequel as all the rebels in this film were killed.

Oh, and as I read Jason's list of spoilers above, I kept saying "I didn't see that. I didn't see that either..." Glad they didn't happen!

There was a smattering of applause at the end. I gave it two or three claps just to join in.

If I see this movie again in a theater, I'll spring for the 3D and Imax, instead of the "regular" version. But most likely my second viewing will be on free TV in a couple of years...

[OldPhiKap]

Liked it as did BoyPK (age 12), who said it was a bit better than Episode 7.

What didn't work for me:

1. The whole Saw Guerra thing was just a muddled time filler as best I could tell.

2. Enough of the cameos. On the eay home, I thought that the best thing of the next backstory film (young Han Solo, IIRC) is that it should not have R2D2 or C3PO. They had their day. BB8 and the new droid in this film were better visually and for fresh stories.

Otherwise, enjoyable if somewhat predictable action film. But you gotta see it. Glad I did, probably won't see it again.

As Jason said n the other thread, Force Ten From Navarone is available somewhere. And has Harrison Ford.

[Doria]

I did not see a planet with the lava- was Vader's fortress on Mustafar?

(Snip)

Lots more multidimensional real world shades of grey in the Rebellion. Heroism and cowardice (dissolve the Rebellion? What?) along with some shady leadership (if you find her father, kill him).

Yes, they've confirmed via twitter that it was Mustafar. I guess nowhere is better suited for Vader to marinate in hatred and bitterness...

I also appreciate that they showed that the rebellion isn't all pure heroic action. I mean, we know the Empire is evil and repressive, but I'm sure many people still would view rebel activity as terrorism against a legitimate government. Rebellions may be built on hope, as they said, but they're also built on blood and sacrifice. Glad to see SW dealing with that in material beyond the old EU.

I would need to watch again to be sure, but I don't think the bad guys were ever made aware that the Death Star had a weakness... all they know is that something relating to the Death Star was leaked. It could, for example, have been a leak allowing the Rebels to build their own superlaser technology (or just something about Wake Forest's formations )

Well, in SW: ANH, they are alerted about the vulnerability (granted, it wasn't great timing), and Tarkin basically said "Who cares?"

Also, I'd basically assumed since the PR for Rogue One began that the design flaw was intentional, so it was a bit jarring to read all the stories with "Rogue One Finally Explains the Design Flaw!"

Anyway, I thought the opening could have been tightened up, and I was a bit sorry that some of the Saw material was cut (because I had affection for him from reading Catalyst); also, I liked many of the alternate Donnie Yen line readings from the trailers better than what they went with, but these are pretty minor nits to pick.

No sequel, but a kind of back-quel, as Toys R Us spoilered that Saw would be appearing in Rebels. It's pretty close to the timeline of Rogue One, so maybe we see how he accumulates some of those injuries. We also know now that at least Hera and Chopper survive Rebels.

Overall, though, I loved it; I should note that I saw it twice yesterday, and liked it significantly more the second time. I also read the ending as more positive, overall, the second time, since I was better able to pick up how every main character in it is essentially a broken person, either physically, mentally, or emotionally. That gave it a more redemptive ending to me. (I'm not saying every movie, even a SW movie, has to have a happy ending for me to like it. I'm just accounting for my main takeaways each time.)