Pearl Harbor Day

[Olympic Fan]

Have to acknowledge this anniversary.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Omd9...=RDOmd9_FJnerY

[duke74]

I posted this on my FB timeline. 75 years ago today.

Here is FDR's "date that will live in infamy" speech. A leader when needed.

https://youtu.be/YhtuMrMVJDk

[Bob Green]

The United States Battleships sunk or damaged were: Arizona, Oklahoma, West Virginia, California, Nevada, Tennessee, Maryland and Pennsylvania.

The Japanese Aircraft Carriers which carried out the attack were: Akagi, Kaga, Soryu, Hiryu, Shokaku and Zuikaku.

With the exception of the Arizona and Oklahoma, all the Battleships were repaired and returned to action in WWII. The Arizona is still at the bottom of Pearl Harbor and the Oklahoma capsized and sank while being towed to San Francisco in 1946.

Four of the Japanese Aircraft Carriers were sunk during the Battle of Midway in June 1942. The Shokaku was sunk during the Battle of the Philippine Sea in June 1944 and the Zuikaku was sunk during the Battle of Leyte Gulf in October 1944.

I had the honor of visiting the USS Arizona Memorial multiple times while I was stationed on a ship homeported in Pearl Harbor between 1979 - 82.

[Olympic Fan]

The United States Battleships sunk or damaged were: Arizona, Oklahoma, West Virginia, California, Nevada, Tennessee, Maryland and Pennsylvania.

Just to clarify a bit -- as you mention, the Arizona and Oklahoma were totally destroyed and never returned to action.

The California and West Virginia were sunk -- but later raised and returned to action.

The Nevada was the only battleship able to get underway during the attack. She was run aground to avoid sinking in the channel that was the only exit of Pearl Harbor.

The Pennsylvania (in drydock), Maryland and Tennessee were slightly damaged.

So four battleships sunk, one grounded and three with light damage. Interesting that five of the Pearl Harbor victims -- Maryland, Pennsylvania, West Virginia, Tennessee and California -- made up the bulk of Jesse Oldendorf's battle line at the Battle of Surigao Strait.

There is sometimes confusion as to the damage because of the Utah. It was a pre-WWI battleship that had been de-commissioned between wars and re-commissioned as a target ship. The Utah
s decks were covered with planks and she was moored on the north side of Ford Island, in one of the normal carrier berths. The Japanese thought the Utah was a carrier (which were their No. 1 target priorities) and attacked the old ex-battleship with everything they had.

I sometimes see Utah listed as one of the battleship casualties (in fact, I was just watching a TV show that said two battleships capsized -- that's only true if you count Utah).

Several ships beyond the battleships were damaged, but the only ones (beside Utah) to be destroyed were two destroyers in the drydock with the Pennsylvania -- the Cassin and Downes -- and the old minelayer Ogagla.

In hindsight, the Japanese botched the attack. They ended up wasting their Sunday punch on eight obsolete battleships (which were essentially only useful for shore bombardment). while ignoring the unprotected oil storage facilities which surrounded the base and would have been easy to destroy -- and if destroyed, the Navy would have been forced to withdraw the fleet to the West Coast. Nagumo's refusal to order a followup strike -- as his advisors begged him to do -- was one of the crucial mistakes of the war.

PS I always found it interesting that one ship present at Pearl Harbor was the old cruiser Baltimore -- which was the No. 2 ship in Dewey's line when he won the Battle of Manila Bay in 1898.

[Bob Green]

In hindsight, the Japanese botched the attack. They ended up wasting their Sunday punch on eight obsolete battleships (which were essentially only useful for shore bombardment). while ignoring the unprotected oil storage facilities which surrounded the base and would have been easy to destroy -- and if destroyed, the Navy would have been forced to withdraw the fleet to the West Coast. Nagumo's refusal to order a followup strike -- as his advisors begged him to do -- was one of the crucial mistakes of the war.

The second strike was suppose to take out the oil storage facilities (as you state above), the submarine base and the shipyard industrial capabilities. In hindsight, it is easy to see those three targets as more important than the eight battleships, especially the submarine facilities. The submarine fleet became the U.S. Navy's primary offensive weapon against Japan in the early part of the war.

The prized aircraft carriers were all absent. Enterprise and Lexington at sea delayed in returning from Wake Island, and Saratoga in San Diego.

In the months leading up to the attack, the Japanese were hopeful ships would also be present at Lahaina, Maui. Lahaina Roads was used as an alternative anchorage and the harbor is deep compared to the shallow water of Pearl Harbor. The deep water would have hampered salvage and repair of sunk ships.

[OldPhiKap]

My grandfather was stationed at Hickam Air Base at the mouth of Pearl Harbor the morning of the attack. My mother, 2 years old, was at their house nearby with grandma and uncle. Thankfully, all survived the attack.

[davekay1971]

Thank you all for the memorial thread and the informative posts. One of the most important dates in our nation's history.

[Tom B.]

I had the honor of visiting the USS Arizona Memorial multiple times while I was stationed on a ship homeported in Pearl Harbor between 1979 - 82.

The USS Arizona Memorial is one of those places in this country (along with Gettysburg, the World Trade Center Memorial in NYC, and a few others) that should be on everyone's "must visit" list if you ever have the opportunity. It's a very solemn and moving place.

My current profile picture on my Facebook page is a photo of the flag at the USS Arizona Memorial that I took when my wife and I went there on our honeymoon in 2008.


flag.jpg

[Bob Green]

Today is the 78th Anniversary of the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. I'm bumping this thread back to the top and encouraging everyone to take a moment to reflect on the events.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

Today is the 78th Anniversary of the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. I'm bumping this thread back to the top and encouraging everyone to take a moment to reflect on the events.

Thanks Bob. My dad was a Navy Flight Surgeon in the Pacific Theatre, as was his brother. Both were on Big Mo when it finally ended in Tokyo Harbor. It all started, of course, with this event.

[TruBlu]

Thanks Bob. My dad was a Navy Flight Surgeon in the Pacific Theatre, as was his brother. Both were on Big Mo when it finally ended in Tokyo Harbor. It all started, of course, with this event.

Small world. My dad was a Gunners Mate on a destroyer patrolling Tokyo Harbor in the event that a returning Japanese submarine didn’t get the word that Japan had surrendered and spotted/attacked a USA warship (Big Mo) in their home port.

[Rogue]

2,335 killed
1,143 wounded

15 Medal of Honors
51 Navy Crosses
53 Silver Stars
4 Navy and Marine Corp metals
1 Distinguished Flying Cross
4 Distinguished Service Crosses
1 Distinguished Service Metal
3 Bronze Star Metals

It's why we remember.

[Bob Green]

Today marks 79 years since the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor.

[budwom]

For those of you who like to read about this stuff, I strongly recommend Ian Toll's Pacific War Trilogy of books...I just finished the last one. Extremely interesting with great Japanese, as well as American sources.

FWIW, there were a lot of men in the Japanese Navy who knew that attacking Pearl Harbor was going to lead to the ruin of Japan, and they were right.

[duke74]

Here’s FDR’s “Date which will live in infamy” speech.

https://youtu.be/iElllj4mS70

[Lord Ash]

I have to say, it was the strangest Pearl Harbor day of my life.

For events like this, or 9/11, the casualty count has always been a big part of it... the sheer number of lives lost.

But as we head into this insane pandemic, it seems these huge days almost pale by comparison... like, we are seeing Pearl Harbor casualties daily.

I know that they are obviously two different things and all of that... but man. It's a bit stunning.



Anyway... yeah, taught it this AM with my class. Listened to a chunk of the speech, too. Incredible stuff, that the Japanese were still dealing with us on a diplomatic level even after the attack had been started.

[CrazyNotCrazie]

My late father was born December 9, 1941. My dad was an oops (ten years younger than the youngest of his four siblings and my grandmother was a fairly large woman who no one believed was really pregnant) so the joke in the family that the Japanese surprised the Americans on the 7th than my grandmother surprised the family on the 9th.

We had a reprint of the NY Times front page from the day he was born - US Declares War headline - bombing was the morning of the 7th Hawaii time so Congress didn't meet to declare war until the 8th, so it was in the newspaper on the 9th. Interestingly, the only vote against war was by a female representative from Montana who had also voted against war in 1917. She was the first woman to hold federal office and only served two two-year terms, both of which were at the beginning of world wars, 24 years apart.

Nice to see Oly's name at the top of this thread.

[wavedukefan70s]

I sign everything at work dec 7th 1941.every year on todays date if im at work.

[House P]

For those of you who like to read about this stuff, I strongly recommend Ian Toll's Pacific War Trilogy of books...I just finished the last one. Extremely interesting with great Japanese, as well as American sources.

FWIW, there were a lot of men in the Japanese Navy who knew that attacking Pearl Harbor was going to lead to the ruin of Japan, and they were right.

Thanks for the recommendation. I am woefully ignorant* about the Pacific campaign during WW2 and have been looking to rectify this by reading a somewhat concise, but comprehensive history book at some point in the near future. A quick check of Goodreads.com reveals that Toll’s series is very highly regarded. However, at more than 2300 pages, the series appears to be more comprehensive than concise. Can anybody recommend anything a bit shorter?


*As an example of my ignorance, I only recently learned that the Philippines was also attacked on the “same” day as Pearl Harbor - though it was actually Dec 8 in Manila due to the international date line. I also learned that the initial draft of FDR’s “date which will live in infamy” speech contained multiple references to the attack on the Philippines which were deleted in the final version.

[OldPhiKap]

Thanks for the recommendation. I am woefully ignorant* about the Pacific campaign during WW2 and have been looking to rectify this by reading a somewhat concise, but comprehensive history book at some point in the near future. A quick check of Goodreads.com reveals that Toll’s series is very highly regarded. However, at more than 2300 pages, the series appears to be more comprehensive than concise. Can anybody recommend anything a bit shorter?


*As an example of my ignorance, I only recently learned that the Philippines was also attacked on the “same” day as Pearl Harbor - though it was actually Dec 8 in Manila due to the international date line. I also learned that the initial draft of FDR’s “date which will live in infamy” speech contained multiple references to the attack on the Philippines which were deleted in the final version.

If you like long podcasts, I highly recommend this series from Dan Carlin:

https://www.dancarlin.com/product/ha...in-the-east-i/

This is part one of five (also far). Fascinating, but a time commitment. You’ll either love Carlin or you won’t; I’m a huge fan. (His series on the Mongols is great too, as is his WWI and his Persian Empire series).