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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Asotin, WA

    The "I'm not going to jinx it" thread, v3.0

    It's back!

    I was going to wait until things settled down at the start of the season, but it seems the Duke curse is already paying dues.

    Now I'll Duck in case I inadvertently invoked the jinx rule, something that I wouldn't want to Bear.

    Have fun, folks!

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Winston-Salem
    1-0.
    "Amazing what a minute can do."

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Asotin, WA
    Flinty resolve going on an early spring break? Watching it like an Eagle.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Raleigh
    Quote Originally Posted by Ultrarunner View Post
    Flinty resolve going on an early spring break? Watching it like an Eagle.
    Dang. Close one.

    FGCU 77 Michigan St. 78
    [redacted] them and the horses they rode in on.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by devildeac View Post
    Dang. Close one.

    FGCU 77 Michigan St. 78
    Some funny business in East Lansing on the final shot. FGCU has the ball with 1.6 seconds left under its own basket. The clock apparently starts when the ball was thrown in, not when it was touched inbounds. The buzzer was sounding as the FGCU player catches the ball. The refs issue some kind of statement that the play cannot be reviewed unless the last-second shot had gone in.

    Of course, from Duke's POC (and SOS) better that MSU won.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by devildeac View Post
    Dang. Close one.

    FGCU 77 Michigan St. 78
    Almost as amazing as how often Mich State goes on runs in the tournament is how often it turns in real clunkers and underachieves early in the year. It's like Izzo thrives on scrapping back from hitting rock bottom.

  7. #7
    ESPN story about how the refs screwed up the end of the MSU-FGCU game:

    http://www.espn.com/mens-college-bas...st-second-shot

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Olympic Fan View Post
    ESPN story about how the refs screwed up the end of the MSU-FGCU game:

    http://www.espn.com/mens-college-bas...st-second-shot
    If Sparty benefits from that situation, it's still a bad call, but hey, anything can happen in sports. If Duke benefits from that call, the conspiracy theorists emerge, claiming a massive conspiracy between Coach K and the NCAA.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Durham
    Quote Originally Posted by Olympic Fan View Post
    ESPN story about how the refs screwed up the end of the MSU-FGCU game:

    http://www.espn.com/mens-college-bas...st-second-shot
    sucks, yeah...but the refs said they timed it and it still took him 1.3 seconds to get the shot off, and he still missed...so it's not like he had to rush, as that's about all the time he had anyway, and this likely didn't impact the outcome of the game.

    That said, I'm highly suspicious of a "clock malfunction"...someone screwed up and started the clock, and won't own up to it. The clock start is one of those things that absolutely needs to be correct...since it is SO hard to correct later...OOB and clock stops are easy...but how the play progresses is affected by the numbers on the clock, which is why it makes sense for crazies to be shouting the wrong ones all the time at the other team.


    "If you don't address the things you're not doing well when you're winning the winning will eventually stop."

    -David Cutcliffe

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by uh_no View Post
    sucks, yeah...but the refs said they timed it and it still took him 1.3 seconds to get the shot off, and he still missed...so it's not like he had to rush, as that's about all the time he had anyway, and this likely didn't impact the outcome of the game.

    That said, I'm highly suspicious of a "clock malfunction"...someone screwed up and started the clock, and won't own up to it. The clock start is one of those things that absolutely needs to be correct...since it is SO hard to correct later...OOB and clock stops are easy...but how the play progresses is affected by the numbers on the clock, which is why it makes sense for crazies to be shouting the wrong ones all the time at the other team.
    I am not sure that anyone on this board would remember, but there was a similar last second play many years ago where the man who caught the ball was able to take a dribble to set himself before he took the shot. I believe that it went in. In this case the shooter heard the horn just as he was catching the ball so he had to shoot it immediately. That just may have affected the accuracy of the shot.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    20 Minutes From The Heaven That Is Cameron Indoor
    Quote Originally Posted by uh_no View Post
    sucks, yeah...but the refs said they timed it and it still took him 1.3 seconds to get the shot off, and he still missed...so it's not like he had to rush, as that's about all the time he had anyway, and this likely didn't impact the outcome of the game.

    That said, I'm highly suspicious of a "clock malfunction"...someone screwed up and started the clock, and won't own up to it. The clock start is one of those things that absolutely needs to be correct...since it is SO hard to correct later...OOB and clock stops are easy...but how the play progresses is affected by the numbers on the clock, which is why it makes sense for crazies to be shouting the wrong ones all the time at the other team.
    I would only disagree on the comment of impacting the game. The players clearly heard the buzzer and the sound of the buzzer very likely impacted the shooter. It confused him and I think he rushed the shot attempt because of that. Maybe he misses anyway, but we will never know how he would have reacted and shot it if he hadn't heard the buzzer upon catching the pass...

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Philly
    Quote Originally Posted by Newton_14 View Post
    I would only disagree on the comment of impacting the game. The players clearly heard the buzzer and the sound of the buzzer very likely impacted the shooter. It confused him and I think he rushed the shot attempt because of that. Maybe he misses anyway, but we will never know how he would have reacted and shot it if he hadn't heard the buzzer upon catching the pass...
    Looking at the replay, the clock his zero as he's turning and rising into his shooting motion, so the error likely didn't impact what shot he took (given that he took 1.3 to catch turn and shoot, this was probably the intention all along). What it absolutely might have impacted was his shooting form as he probably short armed it upon hearing the buzzer. I think the bigger issue is what can be done about it in the future. Unfortunately, I don't think there's much to be done. The only other fair rule you could implement would be to automatically replay any game ending play that started with a clock error, which would mean resetting that play...even if the shot had gone in. Unless I'm missing something, any other rule would add way too much subjectivity (if the play was substantially affected or some wording like that). Imagine if that shot had gone in. MSU players were already raising their hands to celebrate as he shot the ball. The bottom line is you have to get the clock right. Perhaps you have to designate the fourth official at the table as a clock watcher in that scenario and give him the ability to whistle the play dead for a redo as soon as he sees an early or late start.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Durham
    Quote Originally Posted by Newton_14 View Post
    I would only disagree on the comment of impacting the game. The players clearly heard the buzzer and the sound of the buzzer very likely impacted the shooter. It confused him and I think he rushed the shot attempt because of that. Maybe he misses anyway, but we will never know how he would have reacted and shot it if he hadn't heard the buzzer upon catching the pass...
    possibly...I think my argument was based on the fact that he was only .3 seconds early. Had he taken his time, perhaps he wouldn't have gotten it off at all. Is .3 the difference between a rushed and not-rushed shot? Maybe.


    "If you don't address the things you're not doing well when you're winning the winning will eventually stop."

    -David Cutcliffe

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Hot'Lanta... home of the Falcons!
    Quote Originally Posted by SCMatt33 View Post
    Looking at the replay, the clock his zero as he's turning and rising into his shooting motion, so the error likely didn't impact what shot he took (given that he took 1.3 to catch turn and shoot, this was probably the intention all along). What it absolutely might have impacted was his shooting form as he probably short armed it upon hearing the buzzer. I think the bigger issue is what can be done about it in the future. Unfortunately, I don't think there's much to be done. The only other fair rule you could implement would be to automatically replay any game ending play that started with a clock error, which would mean resetting that play...even if the shot had gone in. Unless I'm missing something, any other rule would add way too much subjectivity (if the play was substantially affected or some wording like that). Imagine if that shot had gone in. MSU players were already raising their hands to celebrate as he shot the ball. The bottom line is you have to get the clock right. Perhaps you have to designate the fourth official at the table as a clock watcher in that scenario and give him the ability to whistle the play dead for a redo as soon as he sees an early or late start.
    Correct me if I am wrong, but the clock is the responsibility of the home team, right? The person who handles the clock is employed by the home team. I sorta think that in the event of a clear clock error, one that the officials deem interfered with game play, the visiting team should have the option to either accept the clock error or replay from the point where the clock error began. In other words, if your clock guy cannot operate the clock properly, you suffer the penalty. Does that make sense?

    So, in the case of last night's situation, I think everyone would agree that having a loud buzzer go off as you are shooting could affect the accuracy of your shot. So, the clock error interfered with the final play. In that case, FGCU would get the option to replay the play because they missed the shot. Had the shot gone in, they could have elected to keep the play (because the officials ruled that, despite the clock error, the shot was taken in time).

    Similarly, back in 1997 when the UVA clock operator forgot to start the clock in time -- giving Wojo extra time to get down court, get fouled, and hit the winning FTs -- Duke would elect to keep the play as it was because the clock error favored the Blue Devils. Everyone remember that clock error?

    Anyway, I suppose the problem with all this is that many clocks are now tied to officials whistles, aren't they? The scorer's table does not control the clock as much as they used to, I believe. So this entire post may be moot. Oh well.

    -Jason "this is a really tough one to resolve, but it sure feels like FGCU got robbed a little bit" Evans
    I don't know what you are doing right now, but if you aren't listening to the DBR Podcast, you're doing it wrong.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Washington, D.C.

    Nope

    Jason,

    My understanding is that one of the referees starts the clock, at least in the last few minutes of the game. That's what one of the articles said happened in yesterday's game.

    Matt

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Philly
    Quote Originally Posted by MChambers View Post
    Jason,

    My understanding is that one of the referees starts the clock, at least in the last few minutes of the game. That's what one of the articles said happened in yesterday's game.

    Matt
    I think you're both right. The operator is employed by the home team, by he refs are primarily responsible for starting and stopping. I believe they have a button to start it and some kind of acoustic system with the whistle to stop it, but I'm not 100%. The big ten has already acknowledged it was an officaial that made the error and not the operator.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Asotin, WA
    Can Chris Collins out-Smart the Longhorns?

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Raleigh
    Quote Originally Posted by Ultrarunner View Post
    Can Chris Collins out-Smart the Longhorns?
    Worked again.
    [redacted] them and the horses they rode in on.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Asotin, WA
    Okay, it's not going to happen but the Fort Wayne Mastodons took a 2 point lead into halftime against the Hoosiers.

    Maybe they have Hackman as a coach and Jimmy Chitwood shooting from the Picket Fence set?

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Baltimore
    Quote Originally Posted by Ultrarunner View Post
    Okay, it's not going to happen but the Fort Wayne Mastodons took a 2 point lead into halftime against the Hoosiers.

    Maybe they have Hackman as a coach and Jimmy Chitwood shooting from the Picket Fence set?
    I think you're supposed to say something along the lines of "Hoosier favorite extinct animal? Mine's the Mastodon!" To make it work properly ;-)

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