Ryder Cup '16

[Mal]

Thoughts and predictions?

I have fond memories of attending the U.S. Open at Hazeltine in '91, other than the part where I was a couple hundred yards from the guy who got struck by lightning in the gallery.

I agree with Johnny Miller that this is, on paper at least, the weakest Euro team in quite awhile. A lot of automatic qualifiers with little U.S. success, no major credentials, and no Ryder Cup experience - Cabrera Bello, Fitzpatrick, Pieters, Sullivan comprise 1/3 of the squad. Add in Willet, who won the Masters some 5+ months ago and has done little since (especially in the other 3 majors), and Chris Wood, who's done nothing this side of the pond or in the majors this season. McIlroy, Rose and Stenson are a great anchor to any roster, of course, but Kaymer and Westwood are barely in the world top 50 right now and not in good form. Ian Poulter, who's spent his entire career antagonizing Americans at the Ryder Cup, will be on a golf cart. And I think they're really wishing their eligibility requirements had been changed to accommodate Paul Casey, who's had as good a year as just about anyone from Europe.

On our side, I like this team. The deadweight of Furyk, Stricker, and post-Elin Tiger aren't on the team, with for the most part younger and currently hot players replacing them. I've said for a couple cycles now that the experience argument doesn't work for me when the only experience you're putting out there is losing experience. We've got undeniably the hottest player in the world the last two months, some real bulldogs in Reed and Zach Johnson and Holmes and Walker (coming off his PGA), plus Jordan Spieth and the (usually) steadying, jovial influence of Mickelson. I like the holding of the last captain's pick for Moore, waiting to see who got rolling at the right time.

That said, the vice-captain choices are somewhat confounding, because it's those same guys who've got a ton of experience losing Ryder Cups as players. Not only that, but I wonder about team camaraderie here. Why add Bubba at the last minute? Everyone hates him. I don't think they're terribly enamored of Tiger on a personal level, either, beyond gratefulness at the many, many dollars he's put in their pockets. Lehman had a pretty crummy reputation as prickly and arrogant while playing. Stricker, while by all accounts as nice and down-to-earth as he looks, seems like he barely speaks. I don't know how much team identity has to do with captains and vice captains, and I do note that Stricker and Furyk were assistants on a successful Presidents Cup team last year, so maybe my concern is misplaced. But, still, where's Good Time Freddie?

I'm also concerned about Fowler, who's 0-4-4 in the Ryder Cup and went 1-3 last year at the President's Cup (including getting absolutely shredded by Adam Scott in singles). That's whatever the opposite of confidence inspiring is. He's got a lot to prove, but they were saying that two years ago, too.

I won't rehash my rant about Love's decisionmaking, especially in the singles order, at Medinah. But I remain unconvinced until he proves otherwise.

So, to sum up, I'm actually predicting a U.S. victory here for the first time in at least 6 years. Just look down the singles list - who really scares you for Europe beyond their top 3? I think our depth is superior in a way it hasn't been for awhile. If both captains went by world rankings, Sunday would bring us Dustin vs. Rory, Spieth vs. Stenson, Reed vs. Rose, Fowler vs. Willet, Phil vs. Sergio as the top 5 matchups. All would probably be viewed as a pick 'em (and I would pay top dollar to go watch either the top match, or Jordan Spieth and Henrik Stenson duke it out). But then we show up with Walker, Kuch, Holmes, Koepka, Snedeker and Zach Johnson all ranked before the Euro's next up in Cabrera Bello. He's immediately succeeded in the world rankings by Moore, who just gave McIlroy all he could handle in the Tour Championship. I know this is not dissimilar to some prior years where seemingly random European dudes play lights out and put them over the top. That has to revert to the mean at some point, and I'm hoping now's the time. [ETA - plus, we have the spirit of the King inspiring us right now!]

[killerleft]

The FedEx Cup result was not a positive prelude.

[rasputin]

Thoughts and predictions?

I have fond memories of attending the U.S. Open at Hazeltine in '91, other than the part where I was a couple hundred yards from the guy who got struck by lightning in the gallery.

I agree with Johnny Miller that this is, on paper at least, the weakest Euro team in quite awhile. A lot of automatic qualifiers with little U.S. success, no major credentials, and no Ryder Cup experience - Cabrera Bello, Fitzpatrick, Pieters, Sullivan comprise 1/3 of the squad. Add in Willet, who won the Masters some 5+ months ago and has done little since (especially in the other 3 majors), and Chris Wood, who's done nothing this side of the pond or in the majors this season. McIlroy, Rose and Stenson are a great anchor to any roster, of course, but Kaymer and Westwood are barely in the world top 50 right now and not in good form. Ian Poulter, who's spent his entire career antagonizing Americans at the Ryder Cup, will be on a golf cart. And I think they're really wishing their eligibility requirements had been changed to accommodate Paul Casey, who's had as good a year as just about anyone from Europe.

On our side, I like this team. The deadweight of Furyk, Stricker, and post-Elin Tiger aren't on the team, with for the most part younger and currently hot players replacing them. I've said for a couple cycles now that the experience argument doesn't work for me when the only experience you're putting out there is losing experience. We've got undeniably the hottest player in the world the last two months, some real bulldogs in Reed and Zach Johnson and Holmes and Walker (coming off his PGA), plus Jordan Spieth and the (usually) steadying, jovial influence of Mickelson. I like the holding of the last captain's pick for Moore, waiting to see who got rolling at the right time.

That said, the vice-captain choices are somewhat confounding, because it's those same guys who've got a ton of experience losing Ryder Cups as players. Not only that, but I wonder about team camaraderie here. Why add Bubba at the last minute? Everyone hates him. I don't think they're terribly enamored of Tiger on a personal level, either, beyond gratefulness at the many, many dollars he's put in their pockets. Lehman had a pretty crummy reputation as prickly and arrogant while playing. Stricker, while by all accounts as nice and down-to-earth as he looks, seems like he barely speaks. I don't know how much team identity has to do with captains and vice captains, and I do note that Stricker and Furyk were assistants on a successful Presidents Cup team last year, so maybe my concern is misplaced. But, still, where's Good Time Freddie?

I'm also concerned about Fowler, who's 0-4-4 in the Ryder Cup and went 1-3 last year at the President's Cup (including getting absolutely shredded by Adam Scott in singles). That's whatever the opposite of confidence inspiring is. He's got a lot to prove, but they were saying that two years ago, too.

I won't rehash my rant about Love's decisionmaking, especially in the singles order, at Medinah. But I remain unconvinced until he proves otherwise.

So, to sum up, I'm actually predicting a U.S. victory here for the first time in at least 6 years. Just look down the singles list - who really scares you for Europe beyond their top 3? I think our depth is superior in a way it hasn't been for awhile. If both captains went by world rankings, Sunday would bring us Dustin vs. Rory, Spieth vs. Stenson, Reed vs. Rose, Fowler vs. Willet, Phil vs. Sergio as the top 5 matchups. All would probably be viewed as a pick 'em (and I would pay top dollar to go watch either the top match, or Jordan Spieth and Henrik Stenson duke it out). But then we show up with Walker, Kuch, Holmes, Koepka, Snedeker and Zach Johnson all ranked before the Euro's next up in Cabrera Bello. He's immediately succeeded in the world rankings by Moore, who just gave McIlroy all he could handle in the Tour Championship. I know this is not dissimilar to some prior years where seemingly random European dudes play lights out and put them over the top. That has to revert to the mean at some point, and I'm hoping now's the time. [ETA - plus, we have the spirit of the King inspiring us right now!]

It's true that Fowler has no Ryder Cup wins, but one of his four ties was memorable: he was four holes down with four to play, birdied them all, and needed a 15-footer to get the tie at the end, and sank it. That was in 2010.

[Mal]

The FedEx Cup result was not a positive prelude.

Do you mean the conclusion, with McIlroy holing out and then chipping in during the playoff? He had the fates behind him Sunday, to be sure, and has rounded into top form at the right time. Doesn't worry me that much - he'd have a large influence on the Ryder Cup, anyway, and he's been playing really well the last couple months. I don't think Sunday changes much.

Or were you referring to DJ shooting 73 after holding the lead Saturday night? For whatever reason (maybe it's 15 top 10's this year, or finally getting the major monkey off his back), that doesn't bother me, either. He's also been a terrific singles player, with victories at critical moments at both of his Ryder Cups. Just don't pair him with Phil.

Rasputin, agreed that was a memorable rally for a tie. But when you fall 4 holes behind, I think your chances of coming back and birdieing 4 holes in a row while Eduardo Molinari chokes are a lot smaller than they are of getting crushed 5 and 4, or even losing 6 and 5 (which is what's happened in his other Ryder and Presidents Cup singles matches). If he's paired with the right guy and/or catches fire he could singlehandedly win some matches, for sure. But he can go into a funk and spray the ball all over the place, too.

[killerleft]

Do you mean the conclusion, with McIlroy holing out and then chipping in during the playoff? He had the fates behind him Sunday, to be sure, and has rounded into top form at the right time. Doesn't worry me that much - he'd have a large influence on the Ryder Cup, anyway, and he's been playing really well the last couple months. I don't think Sunday changes much.

Or were you referring to DJ shooting 73 after holding the lead Saturday night? For whatever reason (maybe it's 15 top 10's this year, or finally getting the major monkey off his back), that doesn't bother me, either. He's also been a terrific singles player, with victories at critical moments at both of his Ryder Cups. Just don't pair him with Phil.

Rasputin, agreed that was a memorable rally for a tie. But when you fall 4 holes behind, I think your chances of coming back and birdieing 4 holes in a row while Eduardo Molinari chokes are a lot smaller than they are of getting crushed 5 and 4, or even losing 6 and 5 (which is what's happened in his other Ryder and Presidents Cup singles matches). If he's paired with the right guy and/or catches fire he could singlehandedly win some matches, for sure. But he can go into a funk and spray the ball all over the place, too.

I just meant that US players leading a tournament and losing to a Euro doesn't set a good tone. I agree that it shouldn't matter, but we've seen it before. Plus, I treat most tournaments like they're a US players vs. the World deal, and never pull for the 'others'. Well, hardly ever. I'd find it hard to pull against Sergio if/when he contends again in a major.

[Tom B.]

Not sure if this should go here or in the "Did you see that?" thread.

During today's Ryder Cup practice round, an American fan heckled Rory McElroy and Andy Sullivan over a putt they couldn't make. So they pulled him out of the crowd, handed him a putter, and dared him to make the same putt. To make things interesting, Justin Rose put a $100 bill on the green next to the ball.

He nailed it.

U-S-A!!! U-S-A!!!

[Tripping William]

Not sure if this should go here or in the "Did you see that?" thread.

During today's Ryder Cup practice round, an American fan heckled Rory McElroy and Andy Sullivan over a putt they couldn't make. So they pulled him out of the crowd, handed him a putter, and dared him to make the same putt. To make things interesting, Justin Rose put a $100 bill on the green next to the ball.

He nailed it.

U-S-A!!! U-S-A!!!

Appropriate for either thread. That was awesome. Somewhat reminiscent of Minnesota's own Tyus Stones.

As to this weekend's competition, I have long since sworn off trying to predict professional tournament golf (largely because the fields are so deep, and the margin for error is so razor-thin). I have also quit trying to predict this event, other than drama and controversy. May both be present in abundance!

[duke79]

Not sure if this should go here or in the "Did you see that?" thread.

During today's Ryder Cup practice round, an American fan heckled Rory McElroy and Andy Sullivan over a putt they couldn't make. So they pulled him out of the crowd, handed him a putter, and dared him to make the same putt. To make things interesting, Justin Rose put a $100 bill on the green next to the ball.

He nailed it.

U-S-A!!! U-S-A!!!

Loved this ! Very funny and the European players were great sports about it (the guy tried to give the $100 bill back to Justin Rose but Justin wouldn't take it back!). You can understand (I think) why the Europeans have won 8 out of the last 10 Ryder Cups. They do seem more relaxed and seem to be out there to have fun in addition to trying to play good golf and win matches. The camaraderie among them is palpable. I never really get that impression with the U.S. players.

Not to mimic what Danny Willets' brother tweeted yesterday, but I REALLY hope the American fans are not too boorish with the foreign players. Root for the Americans, yea, but let's be good sports to everyone.

[Mal]

Not to mimic what Danny Willets' brother tweeted yesterday, but I REALLY hope the American fans are not too boorish with the foreign players. Root for the Americans, yea, but let's be good sports to everyone.

C'mon, it's Minnesota. Don't worry. I would, however, like to see some of them make up some signs, with pictures of a bunch of overweight European fans from Ryder Cups past (preferably English), that say "Baying mob of imbeciles, indeed!"

In actuality, I think Willett's rant just hurts his brother and the European team. It's a total distraction, to the point where both Danny and Darren Clarke have had to go way out of their way to apologize through the media, multiple times, and answer a bunch of questions about it. Willett even felt it necessary to go prostrate himself before the U.S. captain. That's not the sort of thing you want coming into an event like this. It's also great bulletin board material for the U.S. squad.

[sagegrouse]

Loved this ! Very funny and the European players were great sports about it (the guy tried to give the $100 bill back to Justin Rose but Justin wouldn't take it back!). You can understand (I think) why the Europeans have won 8 out of the last 10 Ryder Cups. They do seem more relaxed and seem to be out there to have fun in addition to trying to play good golf and win matches. The camaraderie among them is palpable. I never really get that impression with the U.S. players.

Not to mimic what Danny Willets' brother tweeted yesterday, but I REALLY hope the American fans are not too boorish with the foreign players. Root for the Americans, yea, but let's be good sports to everyone.

I am reminded of the enterprising New York golf officials at the first Bethpage Black US Open in 2002, who recognized that the heckling of truculent Brit Colin Montgomerie could get ugly. They handed out pins saying, "Be Nice to Monty."

[Tom B.]

Loved this ! Very funny and the European players were great sports about it (the guy tried to give the $100 bill back to Justin Rose but Justin wouldn't take it back!). You can understand (I think) why the Europeans have won 8 out of the last 10 Ryder Cups. They do seem more relaxed and seem to be out there to have fun in addition to trying to play good golf and win matches. The camaraderie among them is palpable. I never really get that impression with the U.S. players.

Here's a video with an interview of the fan who hit the putt, including some props from Henrik Stenson. It also contains a clip of the putt from a different angle, which shows the reactions of the European players when the putt went in. Looks like everyone was having a ton of fun.

The guy had the European players autograph the $100 bill that he won from Justin Rose, and he said that he's going to put it in a frame and never spend it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fT3xpjaBLgQ

[duke79]

Here's a video with an interview of the fan who hit the putt, including some props from Henrik Stenson. It also contains a clip of the putt from a different angle, which shows the reactions of the European players when the putt went in. Looks like everyone was having a ton of fun.

The guy had the European players autograph the $100 bill that he won from Justin Rose, and he said that he's going to put it in a frame and never spend it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fT3xpjaBLgQ

Thanks for the link! I'm still laughing about it. Great to see the European players be such great sports and nice to the guy.

[jacone21]

The bro vibe is strong at Hazeltine today. I've never really cared for this whole NFLification of the modern golf fan. I think it's only going to get worse though. You kids get off my putting green!

[BluDvlsN1]

I did not see your post until the morning, sorry to be redundant by posting on "Did you see that"
Mea Culpa.

Really great golf action...

Not sure if this should go here or in the "Did you see that?" thread.

During today's Ryder Cup practice round, an American fan heckled Rory McElroy and Andy Sullivan over a putt they couldn't make. So they pulled him out of the crowd, handed him a putter, and dared him to make the same putt. To make things interesting, Justin Rose put a $100 bill on the green next to the ball.

He nailed it.

U-S-A!!! U-S-A!!!

[Mal]

Well then. Clean sweep!

Looks like clutch Rickie showed up. He bailed out Phil all morning (did he hit a fairway?), made that huge 6 footer on 16, then two minutes later may have pressured Sullivan into dumping it in the water with a tremendous tee shot on 17.

[duke79]

The bro vibe is strong at Hazeltine today. I've never really cared for this whole NFLification of the modern golf fan. I think it's only going to get worse though. You kids get off my putting green!

Agree with you here and like the word "NFLification" ...LOL...never seen it before. And it does seem to be much worse during the Ryder Cup (and I realize this IS a USA vs. Europe competition and not an ordinary golf tournament!). But I've always thought that golf and tennis were the last two major sports where unruly and obnoxious spectator behavior was a rarity. But, I guess, no longer.

[DUKIECB]

Agree with you here and like the word "NFLification" ...LOL...never seen it before. And it does seem to be much worse during the Ryder Cup (and I realize this IS a USA vs. Europe competition and not an ordinary golf tournament!). But I've always thought that golf and tennis were the last two major sports where unruly and obnoxious spectator behavior was a rarity. But, I guess, no longer.

I would argue that golf lost this status years ago, in the U.S. at least. The incessant "get in the hole" shouts every time someone tees off 400 yards away for example. In 2013 a new one was minted, "MASHED POTATOES!!!" Ugh.

And let's not forget the hecklers. Remember the nice folks at Bethpage screaming at Sergio to hit the ball because of all his waggling. Honestly, the last golf tournament in Charlotte I went to there was so much beer being consumed I couldn't believe there wasn't idiots running out onto the course.

[Tripping William]

As well as the Yanks played in the morning, they're about as bad in the afternoon (Koepka/Snedeker exempted). A full-point US lead at day's end looks likely, but would be kinda disappointing after the morning sweep

[Mal]

As well as the Yanks played in the morning, they're about as bad in the afternoon (Koepka/Snedeker exempted). A full-point US lead at day's end looks likely, but would be kinda disappointing after the morning sweep

Well, two of four groups this afternoon are playing poorly, but Spieth and Reed are -4 through 10 and down two. It's more that Stenson caught fire.

Not sure why Kuchar's out there this afternoon, instead of Fowler. More birdies demanded in four ball, and Kuch doesn't make enough of them. Might not matter with the afternoon DJ's had, though.

Small note of correction: even if we lose three of four here as long as Koepka and Snedeker hang on we'll still be two points up.

[Tripping William]

Small note of correction: even if we lose three of four here as long as Koepka and Snedeker hang on we'll still be two points up.

There are three kinds of people in the world: Those who are good at math and those who aren't.

[You are correct, obviously.]