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  1. #1

    Hurley Horse Happenings

    Folks,

    For those of you who are not familiar with this thread, years ago, when Bobby Hurley had a racing stable and breeding operation, we tracked horses that were connected to him in this thread. Bobby is out of the horse business and is into thoroughbreds of a different kind (ahem). But we continue to look for names and racing animals that have Duke or Blue Devil Connections to track for those of you who like the ponies, or might watch once or twice a year.

    Yesterday, at Gulfstream Park, a very nice Todd Pletcher trainee named Audible won the Holy Bull stakes and established himself as a serious contender for the Triple Crown this year. He is out of the great young sire Into Mischief and the mare Blue Devil Bel.

    So to all of you blue devil belles out there and those who are so associated with them, we are calling an audible on Super Bowl Sunday and bringing back this thread for occasional alternate things to follow on the horse paths of the Thoroughbred and Standardbred tracks of America and beyond.

    Larry
    DevilHorse
    B.S. Albany #2 preseason Lacrosse
    Ms., Ph.D. Duke #1 preseason Lacrosse
    Last edited by DevilHorse; 02-04-2018 at 01:26 PM.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Thomasville, NC
    The horse has the pedigree. Into Mischief is loaded with great runners like Affirmed, and Storm Cat, who was a grandson of the GOAT, Secretariat. That's just the Sire side. On the dam side is Nijinsky, Tom Fool, and the great Northern Dancer.

  3. #3

    The GOAT

    In the Holy Bull, all 11 entrants had Secretariat in their pedigree. But all representation was through one of his many amazing daughters, even if it was on the sire side.
    All 6 entrants in the Withers at Aqueduct descended from Secretariat, including (obviously) the winner Avery Island (the favorite).
    7 of 9 entrants in the Robert B. Lewis at Santa Anita descended from Secretariat, including the surprise winner Lombo (two crosses) and post time favorite Peace.
    All 3 of these races allotted points toward the Kentucky Derby.

    Larry
    Devilhorse

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Chesterfield, VA
    I am so glad to see you post again. As a avid fan of horse racing and a Duke fan. It is always appreciated to see the horses related even only by name sometimes to the program. My wife and I always enjoy to place a wager on any Duke related horse. Glad to see you Post again and hope to see more as the racing season kicks into gear.

  5. #5

    Glad To Hear

    Quote Originally Posted by bradvinjack View Post
    I am so glad to see you post again. As a avid fan of horse racing and a Duke fan. It is always appreciated to see the horses related even only by name sometimes to the program. My wife and I always enjoy to place a wager on any Duke related horse. Glad to see you Post again and hope to see more as the racing season kicks into gear.
    Glad to hear. As an avid fan, owner, and breeder myself, I read many periodicals and entries over the course of a week. Of course I am tickled when I see horses named Battier or Duke's Cherokee. But of course, when they are low level claimers who run often, and who rarely show potential, it does not merit much attention or a bet. Blue Devil Racing Stable had a nice operation for a while, but they were not associated with Duke at all (but they were a nice Bunch Of Guys!).

    So, the positive re-enforcement is appreciated and I'll gladly report on similar similar stock, with pre-race notifications and Past Performances, to enhance the experience as long as there is interest; feedback is appreciated. Load up your TVG accounts!!

    Larry
    Devilhorse

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Thomasville, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by DevilHorse View Post
    In the Holy Bull, all 11 entrants had Secretariat in their pedigree. But all representation was through one of his many amazing daughters, even if it was on the sire side.
    All 6 entrants in the Withers at Aqueduct descended from Secretariat, including (obviously) the winner Avery Island (the favorite).
    7 of 9 entrants in the Robert B. Lewis at Santa Anita descended from Secretariat, including the surprise winner Lombo (two crosses) and post time favorite Peace.
    All 3 of these races allotted points toward the Kentucky Derby.

    Larry
    Devilhorse
    Secretariat was a fantastic broodmare sire. Top, of the list was Terlingua, who was a respectable racer but was renown as the dam of Storm Cat, a two year champion sire. Secretariat's greatest racing filly was Lady's Secret, who won 25 of 45 races, came in second nine times. As a four year old, she defeated the country's top male horses four times.
    I believe Secretariat was under rated as a sire of champions. Besides Lady's Secret, he sired Risen Star, who won the 1988 Preakness, then followed that with a 16 length romp in the Belmont. He was impeded in the Derby, or we may have had another father/son Triple Crown winner. General Assembly was another good son of Secretariat.
    In the best of breeding barns, all royal blood flows together..

  7. #7

    Similar View

    Quote Originally Posted by Devilwin View Post
    Secretariat was a fantastic broodmare sire. Top, of the list was Terlingua, who was a respectable racer but was renown as the dam of Storm Cat, a two year champion sire. Secretariat's greatest racing filly was Lady's Secret, who won 25 of 45 races, came in second nine times. As a four year old, she defeated the country's top male horses four times.
    I believe Secretariat was under rated as a sire of champions. Besides Lady's Secret, he sired Risen Star, who won the 1988 Preakness, then followed that with a 16 length romp in the Belmont. He was impeded in the Derby, or we may have had another father/son Triple Crown winner. General Assembly was another good son of Secretariat.
    In the best of breeding barns, all royal blood flows together..
    I view Secretariat's Broodmare legacy as having 4 foundational families:
    Terlingua - dam of Storm Cat (as you pointed out) - the first Breeder's Cup winner and sire of many shorter route sires.
    Secretame - dam of Gone West (best branch of mudders this side of Super Saver)
    Six Crowns - dam of Chief's Crown (channeling the Turf monster side of Secretariat from Princequillo) mating of 2 triple crown winners.
    Weekend Surprise - dam of AP Indy and Summer Squall (two Classic winners), line of Tapit, lots of Classic contenders here

    I'd say 90% of Secretariat's representation in today's pedigrees are through these 4 mares.
    Now you are seeing significant inbreeding (sire and dam side of pedigrees) appearing in top runners to Secretariat.
    It has been suggested that in time, a horse's contribution to the breed reaches a stable level. Northern Dancer and Mr. Prospector will have larger contributions to the breed than Secretariat, but neither captured the imagination.

    Larry
    DevilHorse

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Thomasville, NC
    One thing I never understood was when Blood Horse magazine released the Top 100 horses of the 20th Century, they rated Secretariat second behind Man O' War. Bill Nack said it was because one of the voters put Secretariat number 14, which skewed the rankings. They should have tossed that vote and re-voted , because anyone with half a brain knows there were not 13 horses better than Secretariat.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    About 150 feet in front of the Duke Chapel doors.
    Not to dissuade further discussion on this topic, but this was only tenuously related to Duke basketball when it first appeared, and now it doesn't even have that. Feel free to continue the discussion, but I'm moving this thread to the Off Topic Board.
    JBDuke

    Andre Dawkins: “People ask me if I can still shoot, and I ask them if they can still breathe. That’s kind of the same thing.”

  10. #10

    Different Views

    Man O War was 21 of 22 and finished 2nd in that one loss.
    Secretariat lost 4 races out of 21, two 2nds, a 3rd, and an out of the money 4th in his first start.
    His amazing 31 length victory in a World Record 2:24, was done on a track where about 1/3 of the track records were set that particular week.
    That track was lightning fast. But then, Secretariat also won in 2:25 4/5 later that season at Belmont in the Woodward and 2:24 and 4/5 in the Man O War on the Turf.

    In Standardbred voting, the amazing Niatross (only lost 2 races out of 26 as a 3 year old and was undefeated as a 2 year old) had one guy not vote for him as Horse of the Year. They asked the guy why he didn't vote for Niatross, and he said he voted for a 2YO named French Chef because French Chef had a more unexpected season (which he did not). Niatross that year broke the all time, all age record for standardbreds by almost 3 seconds in a sport where records are broken by only 1/5s of seconds. The previous record had stood for 9 years. French Chef was a 2 year old. Who has expectations to begin with for a 2 year old. He lost one race, but was not as brilliant as Niatross. Nut job.

    Lady's Secret was mentioned earlier as a great racing daughter of Secretariat. She was something. A very different type than the great breeding mares of Secretariat. Lady's Secret was out of a very good Stakes mare, just like these others. But Lady was small. I saw her at Monmouth Park as a 4 year old. She was a peanut. If she was 900 pounds or 1000, that was it. Most horses in the Kentucky Derby are 1200-1300 pounds. As a 2 year old, she was what you DON'T want as a horse. She went right to the front, ran as hard as she could, and faded in her first few races. I remember after she broke her maiden, she would lose in stakes to a super nice stakes mare named Mom's Command. But she would get stronger, and would start to carry her speed. By the middle of her 3 Year Old year, she started to figure it out and the connections started to put her into the middle distance races for older mares. She became unstoppable. She ran the older mares off their feet and became a power in the mare ranks for one and half years. She ran against the boys, winning the Whitney at Saratoga as a 4 year old. This headstrong mare had essentially had it as a 5 year old and bolted (ran to the outside of the track) twice in consecutive races and was retired.

    General Assembly was a great horse. Arrogate recently broke GA's record for 1 1/4 miles at Saratoga. However, General Assembly's race was run on a sloppy track (wet fast). I saw General Assembly after a Grad School exam, drove up from Duke to see the Laurel Futurity. What a beautiful chestnut. He had the pedigree, the confirmation, and speed. The Laurel Futurity attracted 4 great horses that day. My recollection was that it was Tim The Tiger, Clever Trick, General Assembly, and some grey horse who was unproven named Spectacular Bid!! Guess who blew everyone out of the water and announced himself to the world.

    Risen Star was a big and beautiful horse. He "should" have won the Derby and Triple Crown that year, but the Kentucky Derby is usually a traffic mess. Ask Curlin.
    There were some other big winners for the tail male for Secretariat, but they didn't breed through. Tinner's Way comes to mind. Globe was good.

    Larry
    DevilHorse

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Thomasville, NC
    Secretariat was knocked to his knees in his first start by Atlas. He refused to grab the bit in the Wood, and an abscess was found in his upper lip, caused by a hay brier.
    He clipped Stop The Music in the Champagne, and won the race, but was disqualified. In the Woodward and the Whitney he was found to be nursing a virus in both races.
    If you look at times for distance between the two, it's not even close. Even if Mano is given a few lengths for the advantages Secretariat enjoyed as for food, iron shoes vs aluminum, and others, he still defeats Mano by several lengths. I think it's strange the only race Man O' War lost was to a horse named "Upset".

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    St. Louis
    Quote Originally Posted by Devilwin View Post
    Secretariat was knocked to his knees in his first start by Atlas. He refused to grab the bit in the Wood, and an abscess was found in his upper lip, caused by a hay brier.
    He clipped Stop The Music in the Champagne, and won the race, but was disqualified. In the Woodward and the Whitney he was found to be nursing a virus in both races.
    If you look at times for distance between the two, it's not even close. Even if Mano is given a few lengths for the advantages Secretariat enjoyed as for food, iron shoes vs aluminum, and others, he still defeats Mano by several lengths. I think it's strange the only race Man O' War lost was to a horse named "Upset".
    Not strange at all. That is how the term "upset" (to mean that the favorite was beaten unexpectedly) began, after Upset beat Man-O-War.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Thomasville, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by rasputin View Post
    Not strange at all. That is how the term "upset" (to mean that the favorite was beaten unexpectedly) began, after Upset beat Man-O-War.
    Found this on the use of the term.http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/spor...ng-man-o-.html

  14. #14

    Onions

    Well, I thought that the summer of 1973 was the origin of when someone showed the "Onions" to beat a better competitor?
    But then, the horse that beat Secretariat in the 1i73 Whitney was a gelding, so that vision just falls apart as you peal back the layers

    Larry
    DevilHorse

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Thomasville, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by DevilHorse View Post
    Well, I thought that the summer of 1973 was the origin of when someone showed the "Onions" to beat a better competitor?
    But then, the horse that beat Secretariat in the 1i73 Whitney was a gelding, so that vision just falls apart as you peal back the layers

    Larry
    DevilHorse
    Onion. Yeah, he got Secretariat on one of his two races when he was incubating a stomach bug. You know, Secretariat faced older horses in the Marlboro (including stable mate Riva Ridge) and defeated them, and again faced a good field in the Canadian Open, and blew them away. You may know more about this than I do, but wouldn't you say he faced much stiffer competition than Mano? To my knowledge, Sir Barton was the toughest test he had (other than Upset).
    Sorry to hijack your thread, I apologize. I love horse racing, and have been a fan of Secretariat ever since he won the TC.

  16. #16

    Treading Water

    Quote Originally Posted by Devilwin View Post
    Onion. Yeah, he got Secretariat on one of his two races when he was incubating a stomach bug. You know, Secretariat faced older horses in the Marlboro (including stable mate Riva Ridge) and defeated them, and again faced a good field in the Canadian Open, and blew them away. You may know more about this than I do, but wouldn't you say he faced much stiffer competition than Mano? To my knowledge, Sir Barton was the toughest test he had (other than Upset).
    Sorry to hijack your thread, I apologize. I love horse racing, and have been a fan of Secretariat ever since he won the TC.
    Hmmmm... One thing that I do is look for horse names as I travel through life.. Treading Water,.. Good Horse Name!! I just stick it into a file.
    I have a file of bawdy horse names too, with plenty of double entendres, but I digress.

    No problem on moving off the topic. Apparently JB Duke didn't like our Topic and booted us off the main thread, so we don't have to be Duke BBall centric.
    And, todays TBreds usually take 3 weeks between races, so it will be 2 weeks before we call another Audible! And so, we can tread water with horse discussion.

    I like talking horses too.

    While I know a bit (pun intended) about Secretariat, I can't say I know that many details about Man O War or Sir Barton. I was a bit young back then. Only a glint in my grandparent's eyes.

    Competition, Racetrack Surface, Jockeys, Conditions, Saddle Technology (is the cynch too tight?): it all varies from year to year. Still 21 of 22 is a lot more consistent than 17 of 21. But Secretariat, when he was on, he was brilliant.
    On 3 of the 4 losses, it seems Secretariat was ill, one famous abscess and two fevers.
    Horses with Red Coats and white feet are also at a disadvantage. They get sicker more often. It is a fact.
    There are a number of quaint poems about how the more white feet a horse has, the worse it is.

    For example:

    One white foot, buy him.
    Two white feet, try him.
    Three white feet, be on the sly.
    Four white feet, pass him by.

    I remember one (sort of) that ended..

    Three white feet, steady as she goes.
    Four white feet, feed him to the crows.

    In my experience, if a horse gets a fever, they may lose the hair on the white hoof and it comes back slowly. It is tougher to keep white feet healthier.
    Most all of the problems with horses happen in the knees and feet.
    We always took extra care to poultice the feet of our horses and inspect the white feet; every day!

    Secretariat had 3 white feet. Man 0 War had 0 white feet.
    Secretariat was a bright red chestnut (more susceptible to illness). That is different than the dark type (liver colored) of chestnut that Man O War was.

    I saw Onion when he was 6 at Aqueduct. He was in an allowance race on a cold overcast day. He didn't win, but he kept earning his keep.

    Larry
    DevilHorse

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Thomasville, NC
    There are those that think Citation may have been better than both of them in his prime, and one expert scoffed at Mano, and said "Count Fleet would have run him down". I don't know about all that, but who knows? Citation was a great one, and so was Count Fleet, and Kelso as well. I have seen in print that Phar Lap was as good as any of these, he surely was a beast. Other than Secretariat, my favorite of the horses from bygone days was Whirlaway. He had this extra long tail, and could fly! I liked the name too..lol

  18. #18

    Count Fleet

    Quote Originally Posted by Devilwin View Post
    There are those that think Citation may have been better than both of them in his prime, and one expert scoffed at Mano, and said "Count Fleet would have run him down". I don't know about all that, but who knows? Citation was a great one, and so was Count Fleet, and Kelso as well. I have seen in print that Phar Lap was as good as any of these, he surely was a beast. Other than Secretariat, my favorite of the horses from bygone days was Whirlaway. He had this extra long tail, and could fly! I liked the name too..lol
    On my way to Durham (keeping that connection to Duke in there) to see the National Sports Festival at Wallace Wade in I think 1986, I went through Kentucky. I stopped by Louisville where the US National Team (Coached by Denny Crum) was training at Univ of Louisville. I stopped in there, just to look. I had a chance encounter with David Robinson in the parking lot of our hotel. This was unexpected. Also went to Churchill Downs. The next day I went out to Lexington to look a few farms. I remember seeing The Three Chimneys of the farm where Seattle Slew resided from the highway, and we stopped by Claiborne, but couldn't see Big Red because the Keeneland sale was going on (much to my regret). No hands available to give us a tour.

    We went on to Stoner Creek stud to see some Standardbreds there. The great Meadow Skipper was there and Nevele Pride (as mean a horse as there was, but wicked fast). But Stoner Creek used to also raise Thoroughbreds, and they had a cemetery on the farm. There amongst the stones was a big regal stone for Count Fleet. Who knew.

    Larry
    DevilHorse

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Thomasville, NC
    They said the Count would try to 'race" younger horses in his pasture when he was 30 years old!

  20. #20

    Catholic Boy and Ax Man

    I thought both Catholic Boy and Axe Man, favorites in yesterday's KY Derby preps.
    Catholic Boy looked short in his start. Was way back at the start; made a protracted run for 4f; and took a short lead, only to lose it on the lead to a determined Flameaway (the great-great-grandson of Storm Cat -Tail Male). I think Catholic Boy will get much benefit from this start.
    Ax Man, a one time, eye-popping starter. Got caught in a speed duel and faded with his duel mate. The winner, Kanthaka, is also a great great grandson of Storm Cat (muddled somewhere in the mare's pedigee [broodmare sire of the broodmare sire]. Kanthaka looks to be getting better as the race gets longer. Ax Man does not have a classic pedigree, and so far does not have a classic temperment.

    Larry
    Devilhorse

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