Stick a fork in Tiger, he is done

[DUKIECB]

http://www.espn.com/golf/story/_/id/...alleviate-painThis is the fourth back surgery in just over three years. In my opinion he was already done but this is the nail in the coffin if you ask me. His competitive golfing days are over. I do not see him being in contention at a professional golf tournament ever again. What a shame. The cliff he plummeted off of is like none other in golfing history and most likely sporting history.

[Olympic Fan]

http://www.espn.com/golf/story/_/id/...alleviate-painThis is the fourth back surgery in just over three years. In my opinion he was already done but this is the nail in the coffin if you ask me. His competitive golfing days are over. I do not see him being in contention at a professional golf tournament ever again. What a shame. The cliff he plummeted off of is like none other in golfing history and most likely sporting history.

Which raises the question: If Tiger is indeed finished, is he the greatest golfer of all time? Or does that honor still reside with Jack Nicklaus?

Woods finished with 14 Majors and 79 PGA wins. You could bump that to 17 majors if you count his three US Amateur titles

Nicklaus finished with 18 majors, 73 PGA wins and 10 senior PGA wins. You can bump his majors to 20 if you count his two US Amateur titles.

Personally, I think Tiger was on track to catch the Bear, but if he's really finished, he came up just a but short.

[PackMan97]

What a great question.

What is greater? a candle that burns for longer or one that burns brighter?

There is no doubt that Tiger revolutionized the physical aspects of golf. He was a class of athlete that the game had never seen before. He forced everyone else to change the way they prepared to play the game. I wonder how much of Tiger's approach to the game resulted in his shortened career.

Sometimes I wish I could visit alternate realities where Tiger Woods grew up playing basketball, or the Williams sisters played soccer, or where Tim Duncan wasn't afraid of sharks, maybe one in which Jordan picked baseball over basketball in high school. I've always felt the elite athletes would succeed at whatever sport they play.

[DUKIECB]

Which raises the question: If Tiger is indeed finished, is he the greatest golfer of all time? Or does that honor still reside with Jack Nicklaus?

Woods finished with 14 Majors and 79 PGA wins. You could bump that to 17 majors if you count his three US Amateur titles

Nicklaus finished with 18 majors, 73 PGA wins and 10 senior PGA wins. You can bump his majors to 20 if you count his two US Amateur titles.

Personally, I think Tiger was on track to catch the Bear, but if he's really finished, he came up just a but short.

I think if you look at the totality of both careers it's hard to argue against Jack. Another stat you could add is 2nd place finishes in majors. Jack finished 2nd an astonishing 19 times giving him 37 1st or 2nd place finishes. I'm too lazy to look it up but I think Tiger only has 5 or 6 2nd place finishes.

I will say that at one point from late 1999 after winning the PGA to mid 2002 when he won the U.S. Open, Tiger was otherworldly and had a stretch that no other golfer has ever had. During that stretch he won 7 out of the 11 major championships played including the Tiger slam holding all 4 at once. That is almost unbelievable and I do not think we will ever see anything like that happen again.

[rasputin]

What a great question.

What is greater? a candle that burns for longer or one that burns brighter?

There is no doubt that Tiger revolutionized the physical aspects of golf. He was a class of athlete that the game had never seen before. He forced everyone else to change the way they prepared to play the game. I wonder how much of Tiger's approach to the game resulted in his shortened career.

Sometimes I wish I could visit alternate realities where Tiger Woods grew up playing basketball, or the Williams sisters played soccer, or where Tim Duncan wasn't afraid of sharks, maybe one in which Jordan picked baseball over basketball in high school. I've always felt the elite athletes would succeed at whatever sport they play.

Parts of the argument that Tiger's flame burned brighter are, first, all the media coverage he had, and second, the fact that he dominated the field. Jack's case was different, first, because the media that existed when Tiger emerged didn't exist in Jack's day, and second, because there was already a dominant golfer on the scene, and at his peak, when Jack emerged (I'm referring to Arnie, of course).

[FadedTackyShirt]

Sometimes I wish I could visit alternate realities where Tiger Woods grew up playing basketball, or the Williams sisters played soccer, or where Tim Duncan wasn't afraid of sharks, maybe one in which Jordan picked baseball over basketball in high school. I've always felt the elite athletes would succeed at whatever sport they play.

Jordan and Tiger had surprisingly low ceilings in gambling and womanizing...

[Tripping William]

Jordan and Tiger had surprisingly low ceilings in gambling and womanizing...

And their roofs were no higher, apparently.

[OldPhiKap]

There is no doubt that Tiger revolutionized the physical aspects of golf. He was a class of athlete that the game had never seen before.

Jack did in his day as well. He was mega-long. The famous line around here in Augusta was from Bobby Jones, who said of Jack: "he plays a game with which I am not familiar."

[dudog84]

Which raises the question: If Tiger is indeed finished, is he the greatest golfer of all time? Or does that honor still reside with Jack Nicklaus?

Woods finished with 14 Majors and 79 PGA wins. You could bump that to 17 majors if you count his three US Amateur titles

Nicklaus finished with 18 majors, 73 PGA wins and 10 senior PGA wins. You can bump his majors to 20 if you count his two US Amateur titles.

Personally, I think Tiger was on track to catch the Bear, but if he's really finished, he came up just a but short.

8 of those 10 senior wins were senior majors. I assume that's about all he played after 50 from those numbers. Does anyone here really think Tiger is going to play the senior tour? I sure don't. But I also don't really count that a lot when assessing the best ever.

Jack also overcame a 54-hole deficit in 8 of his majors. It's interesting that Tiger never did. Not sure if that says more about him or his competition.

To another comment, Tiger won his 14 majors in 12 years...Jack won 14 of his in 14 years, so not that much of a difference. Though there was that short span where Tiger was almost untouchable.

I think there's no question that Jack has to be considered the best ever. Tiger could've been, but...

[OldPhiKap]

8 of those 10 senior wins were senior majors. I assume that's about all he played after 50 from those numbers. Does anyone here really think Tiger is going to play the senior tour? I sure don't. But I also don't really count that a lot when assessing the best ever.

Jack also overcame a 54-hole deficit in 8 of his majors. It's interesting that Tiger never did. Not sure if that says more about him or his competition.

To another comment, Tiger won his 14 majors in 12 years...Jack won 14 of his in 14 years, so not that much of a difference. Though there was that short span where Tiger was almost untouchable.

I think there's no question that Jack has to be considered the best ever. Tiger could've been, but...

A side question is -- which one had to face better competition? Jack, who fought Arnie and Gary and Tom? Or Tiger, who did not have a main rival but probably faced a deeper pool of talent?

[Jeffrey]

Which raises the question: If Tiger is indeed finished, is he the greatest golfer of all time? Or does that honor still reside with Jack Nicklaus?

Jack Nicklaus!

IMO, a player's career record is the measure. Just because Jordan Spieth became the youngest player to win two majors since Gene Sarazen, does not make Spieth the greatest golfer of all time.

[Jeffrey]

A side question is -- which one had to face better competition? Jack, who fought Arnie and Gary and Tom? Or Tiger, who did not have a main rival but probably faced a deeper pool of talent?

For Jack, let's add Trevino and Miller (great three year run).

IMO, Jack also faced the deeper pool of talent.

[CameronBornAndBred]

IMO, Jack also faced the deeper pool of talent.

A great debate within in its own right.

[-jk]

I don't know - did they rebuild courses to slow Jack? I seem to recall they did for Tiger...

-jk

[Tripping William]

Jack has the better overall career resume. But, at his peak (and that peak was probably a 10-year window between 1997 and 2007), Tiger was the best, most dominant golfer the planet has ever seen. Parse between those two as you will.

[duketaylor]

If Tiger doesn't return, and I think that's a big if, then Jack is easily the GOAT. I'll have to look, but how many times did Tiger finish runner-up in majors? I think Jack did 19 times. Tiger (as mentioned upthread) never came back to win a major, not that it really matters. I would argue Tiger was the best front-runner of all-time. It could also be argued (and has) that Tiger didn't have a Tom Watson (or insert another true rival). Lefty was a kinda-sorta and some young guys were coming along, but not a true rival.

Just my thoughts. Would love for Tiger to get healthy again and compete, golf is better with him. Just goes to show, IMO, that swinging so hard puts too much pressure on the back. I've always thought Tiger got too bulked-up, too strong. Seems strange, I know.

[Reilly]

... Bobby Jones, who said of Jack: "he plays a game with which I am not familiar."

"He plays third base like he came down from a higher league." umpire Ed Hurley on Brooks Robinson (http://baseballhall.org/hof/robinson-brooks).

[CDu]

Peak Tiger was the most dominant golfer ever. But if he fails to win 4 more majors (as is almost certain now) it is pretty clearly short of Nicklaus as the greatest golf career of all time.

[JasonEvans]

So, is the GOAT the best career or the best golfer? By that I mean, if you took peak Tiger, peak Arnie, and peak Jack and put them all on a course at the same time who would win? I think there is no question at all that Tiger is the answer. For a sorta brief period of time, about half a decade, Tiger Woods played the game better than anyone before or since (as CDu notes above). I think most would agree with that. So, does that make him the GOAT or does the longer career excellence of Jack push him over the top?

-Jason "this is fun" Evans

[duke79]

Peak Tiger was the most dominant golfer ever. But if he fails to win 4 more majors (as is almost certain now) it is pretty clearly short of Nicklaus as the greatest golf career of all time.

I (pretty much) agree with your succinct analysis. No doubt in my mind that, if Tiger had stayed healthy and had avoided that "accident" with his car and his then-wife wielding his 9-iron, he would have surpassed Jack in the number of majors won and would have become the universally-acclaimed GOAT.