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Thread: Brexit

  1. #381
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    Steamboat Springs, CO
    Quote Originally Posted by dudog84 View Post
    I suppose not everyone will find this amusing...but everyone loves J. K. Rowling, right? Here's her recent Twitter take on Brexit:

    "My mentions have taught me that Brexit is like Trumpís wall. For its devoted fans it has a symbolic value totally unrelated to its workability, its true cost or the glaring self-interest of its proposers, whereas non-believers see nothing but a deranged and costly vanity project."
    Quote Originally Posted by Indoor66 View Post
    No, not everyone loves J. K. Rowling.
    Here is a WaPo column by an American who advocates Brexit -- London is a wonderland of riches; Paris is forlorn, aged, and desolate. The population in Eastern Europe is exploding, many headed to the West. Britain is far better on its own, he says.

    Uh,... Henry, Henry? Henry! Economics! Britain is prospering BECAUSE it is the financial center (centre) of the EU. It, along with the New York, is the global center of banking -- occupied by extremely high-income jobs of -- I guess -- more than a hundred thousand, and the downstream multiplier effects which make London so prosperous -- purchases, shops, entertainment, real estate, and so forth. This is not likely to continue with Britain outside of the EU and continental bankers unable to live in London as EU citizens. Paris will take its place over time. And Paris doesn't look forlorn to me.

    The second reason Olsen is wrong, I believe, is that he ignores the importance to Britain of English as the global language. It is taught to all throughout the EU countries. It clearly benefits the US and Britain in world trade and banking. If Britain leaves the EU, there is no long ONE SINGLE COUNTRY in the EU for which English is the official language. Little Ireland, you say? Its official language is Gaelic. We will likely end up with French and German as co-official languages in the EU and a blurred role for English -- now the unquestioned international language -- in the future. This is my primary reason for opposing Brexit -- viva English!
    Sage Grouse

    ---------------------------------------
    'When I got on the bus for my first road game at Duke, I saw that every player was carrying textbooks or laptops. I coached in the SEC for 25 years, and I had never seen that before, not even once.' - David Cutcliffe to Duke alumni in Washington, DC, June 2013

  2. #382
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    Steamboat Springs, CO

    Vote Coming Tuesday, January 15

    Ther has been a lot going on with respect to Brexit discussions and decisions in Britain. PM Theresa May's proposal for a "leave Brexit deal," already approved the the EU countries, will go to Parliament for a vote on Tuesday. It is expected to lose.

    In that case Britain is hurtling toward a no-deal Brexit, which means that, on the exit date of March 29, there would be no trade agreements with the EU, no agreement on borders, no consular agreements on treatment on ex-pats.

    It is very hard making sense of the news from the U.K. -- there's no coverage on the usual U.S. news channels -- but here are the clearest options in the case May's deal is turned down.:

    1. A "no-deal" Brexit as discussed.
    2. A re-vote on "Remain."
    3. Or, total upheaval in the U.K. government -- resignations, possibly new elections, changes in leadership.
    4. Or, an earnest effort at renegotiation, which would require concern and understanding on the part of the EU countries, which is -- er -- unlikely under the circumstances of departure..

    The Tories, of course, have zero working margin -- they are dependent on the Northern Ireland DUP's ten seats to form a bare majority. Labour has about 40 percent of the Parliament, but, of course, would love to see new elections and a shot at winning the majority.

    Anyway. This could get really screwed up.
    Sage Grouse

    ---------------------------------------
    'When I got on the bus for my first road game at Duke, I saw that every player was carrying textbooks or laptops. I coached in the SEC for 25 years, and I had never seen that before, not even once.' - David Cutcliffe to Duke alumni in Washington, DC, June 2013

  3. #383
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    Quote Originally Posted by sagegrouse View Post
    Ther has been a lot going on with respect to Brexit discussions and decisions in Britain. PM Theresa May's proposal for a "leave Brexit deal," already approved the the EU countries, will go to Parliament for a vote on Tuesday. It is expected to lose.

    In that case Britain is hurtling toward a no-deal Brexit, which means that, on the exit date of March 29, there would be no trade agreements with the EU, no agreement on borders, no consular agreements on treatment on ex-pats.

    It is very hard making sense of the news from the U.K. -- there's no coverage on the usual U.S. news channels -- but here are the clearest options in the case May's deal is turned down.:

    1. A "no-deal" Brexit as discussed.
    2. A re-vote on "Remain."
    3. Or, total upheaval in the U.K. government -- resignations, possibly new elections, changes in leadership.
    4. Or, an earnest effort at renegotiation, which would require concern and understanding on the part of the EU countries, which is -- er -- unlikely under the circumstances of departure..

    The Tories, of course, have zero working margin -- they are dependent on the Northern Ireland DUP's ten seats to form a bare majority. Labour has about 40 percent of the Parliament, but, of course, would love to see new elections and a shot at winning the majority.

    Anyway. This could get really screwed up.
    As I understand it, the House of Commons gave two blows to May on Wednesday. First, if the deal is voted down, May must present her “Plan B” within three days (IIRC). Second, Parlaiment took some control over what happens in that likelihood. Both of these were over her objection.

    May also presented a veto-power pledge to Northern Ireland in regard to certain aspects of internal laws, but the DUP (the main Northern Irish Unionist Party) rejected it. Which is tough because the DUP is part of the Conservative’s coalition government (May’s last snap election backfired, leaving the Torries with a plurality instead of its old majority).

    Gonna be interesting.
    1991 -- 1992 -- 2001 -- 2010 -- 2015

  4. #384
    This certainly is a pickle. Someone has to tell these people they can not have their cake and eat it too. Mayís deal is dead. It would take a miracle to see it pass. Funny that itís the only thing that has united both sides. Itís still better than a no deal IAHO. Her options will be
    1) Tell the PMs, fine you want this dumpster fire you have at it. I didnít want to leave in the first place. Good luck getting the EU to extend this mess further but have a crack at it.
    2) Call off the current Brexit and have it TBA at some future junction. This doesnít require the EU to vote unanimously unlike extending negotiations. Itís the clean way to prolong this mess.
    3) The Peopleís Vote which she hates and requires either an extension or cancellation of Brexit.
    4) No Deal which would seem the most likely outcome but I canít see it happening. Maybe I should abandon logic when thinking about this.

    The UK has only one chip in this game: the divorce bill. It remains to be seen how badly the EU wants this free and clear if the UK leaves. They might even think they could get at least part of it through the courts if there is a no deal scenario.

  5. #385
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    Sep 2007
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    Vote day in Parliament on Mayís deal. Chaos likely to follow.
    1991 -- 1992 -- 2001 -- 2010 -- 2015

  6. #386
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    Hot'Lanta... home of the Falcons!
    Quote Originally Posted by OldPhiKap View Post
    Chaos likely to follow.
    Because things have been calm and orderly up to now, right?

    I think this calls for Kevin Bacon...

    I don't know what you are doing right now, but if you aren't listening to the DBR Podcast, you're doing it wrong.

  7. #387
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    Sep 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post
    Because things have been calm and orderly up to now, right?

    I think this calls for Kevin Bacon...

    Kevin Bacon to Theresa May in three degrees or less -- go!

    (I love that clip -- applicable to so much of the world these days)
    1991 -- 1992 -- 2001 -- 2010 -- 2015

  8. #388
    Quote Originally Posted by OldPhiKap View Post
    Kevin Bacon to Theresa May in three degrees or less -- go!

    (I love that clip -- applicable to so much of the world these days)
    My takeaway from Brexit is this. If we are going to have a minimum voting age, we should have a maximum one too. I propose that no one over the age of 65, maybe 75 max, be allowed to vote.

  9. #389
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    Sep 2007
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    Brexit goes down -- hard -- 432-202.

    Thump.


    So -- what's next? Who knows. But May is toast. Almost have to call a snap election after that sort of defeat.

    Anyhoo, I think P.M. May has three days to present her "Plan B" -- which I am pretty sure is nonexistent.


    Edit to add -- apparently it is the largest government defeat since 1924. Corbyn has tabled a no confidence motion, which I assume will be taken up at some point in the near future. (Don't know all their rules about such things).
    Last edited by OldPhiKap; 01-15-2019 at 02:00 PM.
    1991 -- 1992 -- 2001 -- 2010 -- 2015

  10. #390
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    Sep 2007
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    "What could happen next?"

    A helpful flow chart and discussion of options from the BBC (follow the initial "rejected" option -- this was drawn up pre-vote):

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-46393399
    1991 -- 1992 -- 2001 -- 2010 -- 2015

  11. #391
    Quote Originally Posted by OldPhiKap View Post
    "What could happen next?"

    A helpful flow chart and discussion of options from the BBC (follow the initial "rejected" option -- this was drawn up pre-vote):

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-46393399
    This is an excellent link. Perfect for people like me who have been following this, but not on a granular level.

  12. #392
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
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    I'd tell ya, but then I'd have to kill ya
    Quote Originally Posted by chris13 View Post
    My takeaway from Brexit is this. If we are going to have a minimum voting age, we should have a maximum one too. I propose that no one over the age of 65, maybe 75 max, be allowed to vote.
    Wow. Who just kicked you off their lawn?

  13. #393
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    Greenville, SC
    Quote Originally Posted by dudog84 View Post
    Wow. Who just kicked you off their lawn?
    It used to be that the wisdom of age was revered.

    I remember when I used to walk uphill through the snow five miles every day to learn at my grandfather's knee. That doesn't happen any more. I blame it on erosion and global warming.

    Also on knee replacements.

  14. #394
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    Nov 2007
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    Vermont
    Quote Originally Posted by chris13 View Post
    My takeaway from Brexit is this. If we are going to have a minimum voting age, we should have a maximum one too. I propose that no one over the age of 65, maybe 75 max, be allowed to vote.
    The only flaw with this idea is that 60% of voters under the age of 30 think Brexit is a band.

  15. #395
    Quote Originally Posted by chris13 View Post
    My takeaway from Brexit is this. If we are going to have a minimum voting age, we should have a maximum one too. I propose that no one over the age of 65, maybe 75 max, be allowed to vote.
    Better yet, let's just ditch voting and let the Queen run things again

  16. #396
    Quote Originally Posted by budwom View Post
    The only flaw with this idea is that 60% of voters under the age of 30 think Brexit is a band.
    And, 30% still live with their parents (who may be over 65 and offended by the concept).

  17. #397
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffrey View Post
    And, 30% still live with their parents (who may be over 65 and offended by the concept).
    I proposed the maximum voting age. I'm middle aged and own my own house. While I was joking about the maximum voting age, it was not really a response to Brexit. It's more frustration with a dysfunctional US government whose President is 72, House Majority Leader is 76, and Speaker is 77. I am tired of living in a gerontocracy. I'd like to see a Constitutional amendment that limits the holding of federal office (President, Congress, Federal Judiciary) to age 75 or at least has cognitive fitness tests past that age. I say this because I can start to see the signs of aging in myself, and have seen it my parents who are healthy for their ages and take good care of themselves but have still slowed down considerably in their late 70s and early 80s.

    As for Brexit, I quote the following "We find that voting Leave is associated with older age, white ethnicity, low educational attainment, infrequent use of smartphones and the internet, receiving benefits, adverse health and low life satisfaction." So it was the old folks on the dole that voted Leave, screwing the rest of the country which now has to live with this disaster. Source: https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...76268018301320

  18. #398
    Quote Originally Posted by chris13 View Post
    I proposed the maximum voting age. I'm middle aged and own my own house. While I was joking about the maximum voting age, it was not really a response to Brexit. It's more frustration with a dysfunctional US government whose President is 72, House Majority Leader is 76, and Speaker is 77. I am tired of living in a gerontocracy. I'd like to see a Constitutional amendment that limits the holding of federal office (President, Congress, Federal Judiciary) to age 75 or at least has cognitive fitness tests past that age. I say this because I can start to see the signs of aging in myself, and have seen it my parents who are healthy for their ages and take good care of themselves but have still slowed down considerably in their late 70s and early 80s.

    As for Brexit, I quote the following "We find that voting Leave is associated with older age, white ethnicity, low educational attainment, infrequent use of smartphones and the internet, receiving benefits, adverse health and low life satisfaction." So it was the old folks on the dole that voted Leave, screwing the rest of the country which now has to live with this disaster. Source: https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...76268018301320
    If old, uneducated white folk on the dole represent a majority of Britons, the country's in trouble no matter what. If they don't, then there are plenty of other reasons why the leave referendum passed.

  19. #399
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    Dec 2014
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    I'd tell ya, but then I'd have to kill ya
    Quote Originally Posted by gus View Post
    If old, uneducated white folk on the dole represent a majority of Britons, the country's in trouble no matter what. If they don't, then there are plenty of other reasons why the leave referendum passed.
    I hope you're being a bit tongue-in-cheek, otherwise you really don't understand.

  20. #400
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    Sep 2007
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    Discussions of who should be able to vote, or which demographics are more worthy of a voice in the process, never end well with the PPB police. Just sayin'

    IANOM but suggest that getting this thread locked at in the critical conclusion of this process would really suck.
    1991 -- 1992 -- 2001 -- 2010 -- 2015

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