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Thread: Brexit

  1. #81
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
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    Atlanta
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffrey View Post
    And, IMO, not the way someone speaks when they truly want to be the next POTUS.
    I still believe Trump never expected to get this far, is in over his head and doesn't know how to extract himself.

  2. #82
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    Forest Hills, NY
    Quote Originally Posted by BandAlum83 View Post
    I still believe Trump never expected to get this far, is in over his head and doesn't know how to extract himself.
    Agree - and have thought that for a few months. Looked in the mirror and said "Holy sh-t, am I really the nominee?" What a shock on the Wed morning if he wins. To rephrase the quote from above, the dog will have really caught the car.

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by Troublemaker View Post
    Interesting, the nuances.

    Not surprising at all. The people answering British to these questions, as well as the people from the minority countries within the UK, are used to and/or satisfied with being subjugated to the larger political entity of the UK. It follows that they would be more likely to be comfortable being politically subjugated to the EU as well. The Scots are not generally happy with being outvoted by the English, so they either don't mind being outvoted by the EU and/or they want to stick it to the English so they can share the pain.

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by BigWayne View Post
    Not surprising at all. The people answering British to these questions, as well as the people from the minority countries within the UK, are used to and/or satisfied with being subjugated to the larger political entity of the UK. It follows that they would be more likely to be comfortable being politically subjugated to the EU as well. The Scots are not generally happy with being outvoted by the English, so they either don't mind being outvoted by the EU and/or they want to stick it to the English so they can share the pain.
    Oh, no doubt. Very nice explanation, and I agree. Didn't mean to suggest it was surprising. Just that it was interesting to go through the demographic slices (age, geography, degree of "British" identity, etc) and see the differences. I love looking at this stuff.

  5. #85
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Undisclosed
    My mother was half English and I'm half English too
    I'm a great big bundle of culture, tied up in the red white and blue
    I'm a fine example of your Essex man
    And I'm well familiar with the Hindustan
    'Cause my neighbors are half English and I'm half English too

    My breakfast was half English and so am I, you know
    I had a plate of Marmite soldiers, washed down with a cappuccino
    And I have a veggie curry about once a week
    The next day I fry it up as bubble and squeak
    'Cause my appetites, half English and I'm half English too

    Dance with me to this very English melody
    From morris dancing to Morrissey
    All that stuff came from across the sea

    Britannia, she's half English, she speaks Latin at home
    St. George was born in the Lebanon, how he got here I don't know
    And those three lions on your shirt
    They never sprang from England's dirt
    Them lions are half English and I'm half English too

    Le-li, umma le-li-ya, le-li Umma le-li-ya
    Le-li, umma le-li-ya, bledi g'desh akh! Le-li-ya

    Oh, my country, what a beautiful country you are
    -- Billy Bragg
    "We're only tourists in this life
    Only tourists but the view is nice"

    -- David Byrne

  6. #86
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    North Carolina

    Arrow

    Quote Originally Posted by swood1000 View Post
    Maybe so. Or maybe it's the Poles.

    Attachment 6475 Attachment 6476
    I was in the uk a couple of weeks ago visiting my family and actually the biggest concern was the possibility of Turkey joining. David Cameron had publicly said that he wouldn't support them joining but it had been leaked that privately he was supporting. It has been estimated that if Turkey joined thousands of immigrants would flood into the Uk. As my sister put it there is just no room. Schools, roads, housing, you name it.
    President of the Marshall Plumlee fan club!

  7. #87
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    Atlanta
    Quote Originally Posted by Furniture View Post
    I was in the uk a couple of weeks ago visiting my family and actually the biggest concern was the possibility of Turkey joining. David Cameron had publicly said that he wouldn't support them joining but it had been leaked that privately he was supporting. It has been estimated that if Turkey joined thousands of immigrants would flood into the Uk. As my sister put it there is just no room. Schools, roads, housing, you name it.
    A leaked lie, or truth?

    Everything I'd read indicated there was little to no possibility of a Turkish entry into the EU.

  8. #88

    My Fear

    Evidently the younger more educated voted to remain, older less educated to stay. Long term effect on GB economy may be pretty large. The terms of withdrawal are not even known, must be negotiated. I am not sure that those voted to leave understand the consequences.

    My fear is that we will see that pattern prevail in other elections throughout the globe.

    SoCal

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by SoCalDukeFan View Post
    Evidently the younger more educated voted to remain, older less educated to stay.
    Hmmm, I thought we were staying away from PPB territory.

    I'm probably being petty in another thread.

  10. #90
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    Feb 2016
    Location
    Atlanta
    Quote Originally Posted by YmoBeThere View Post
    Hmmm, I thought we were staying away from PPB territory.
    I wouldn't call that PPB territory. It was the actual demographics of the vote, wasn't it?

  11. #91
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    Feb 2012
    Location
    North Carolina
    Quote Originally Posted by BandAlum83 View Post
    A leaked lie, or truth?

    Everything I'd read indicated there was little to no possibility of a Turkish entry into the EU.
    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/132421...er-referendum/

    The tabloids are a major factor for the news in the UK. Who knows what is the truth? The important thing here is what the voters believed.
    President of the Marshall Plumlee fan club!

  12. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by BandAlum83 View Post
    I wouldn't call that PPB territory. It was the actual demographics of the vote, wasn't it?
    Yes and no. Besides being a bit of it generaliaztion, the implication of the statement being that the valued measure of education is formal classroom time. Some might consider this a debatable point. The statement could also be made that the young and asset light vote to stay while the experienced with something to lose vote to leave.

    I'm probably being petty in another thread.

  13. #93
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Albemarle, North Carolina
    Quote Originally Posted by SoCalDukeFan View Post
    Evidently the younger less educated voted to remain, older more educated to stay. Long term effect on GB economy may be pretty large. The terms of withdrawal are not even known, must be negotiated. I am not sure that those voted to leave understand the consequences.

    My fear is that we will see that pattern prevail in other elections throughout the globe.

    SoCal
    Corrected it
    "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge" -Stephen Hawking

  14. #94
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Fayetteville, NC
    The Sun rose in the U.K. last week. it rose again this morning, and I promise each and everyone of you that it will rise 6 months from now.

    The E.U. has faced several major economic problems in the past and it has survived, it won't be any different this time around

  15. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by alteran View Post
    ... Referenda tend to create the opportunity for chaos. ...

    It's one of the reasons our founding fathers created a republic, not a democracy.
    Quote Originally Posted by swood1000 View Post
    It's an interesting dynamic, deciding which questions should be removed from consideration by the voters for their own good. ...
    Just read a somewhat-related article in National Affairs about whether certain questions should not be subject to popular or even representative vote: http://www.nationalaffairs.com/publi...-majority-rule

    Though this article was written by the conservative George Will, the idea of making certain questions off-limits to the people or their representatives is one that may appeal to either the current American left or right, depending on the issue.

  16. #96
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    The City of Brotherly Love except when it's cold.
    Quote Originally Posted by budwom View Post
    It's often true that the party (not political party) that chooses to leave tends to be highly (and overly) optimistic about
    the next deal it can cut.

    For forty plus years I've watched the ongoing attempts of many in Quebec to leave Canada. The Quebecois like to
    paint a scenario called Sovereignty Association, in which Quebec runs itself (sovereignty) but gets to retain a lot
    of important stuff like military protection and the Canadian dollar (association).

    However, the rest of Canada isn't too impressed by this argument...either you're in or you're out they say, and if you're out you
    can have your own military and currency. And some of the more conservative provinces (e.g. Alberta) would just as soon
    help them pack.

    (I'm not saying this to pick on the Quebecois, they have some genuine grievances...only to point out that exiting entities can
    be too optimistic about what comes next.)

    What's interesting about what happened in the UK vs Quebec is that in the UK, older citizens voted to leave, whereas in Quebec, older
    people (presumably with a lot of financial concerns) tended to want to stay in Canada.
    Quebec receives substantially more social services and other economic support from the Ottawa than it contributes. Quebec's ability to stand alone is highly questionable. Not the case with the U.K., or the rest of Northern Europe, which are giant piggy banks for the south and parts of Eastern Europe.

  17. #97
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Forest Hills, NY
    Quote Originally Posted by 77devil View Post
    Quebec receives substantially more social services and other economic support from the Ottawa than it contributes. Quebec's ability to stand alone is highly questionable. Not the case with the U.K., or the rest of Northern Europe, which are giant piggy banks for the south and parts of Eastern Europe.
    Isn't this also a argument relating to the status within the UK or independence of Scotland - the relative funding and support received/provided?

    An analogy for those in investment banking here - how would a division or subsidiary succeed outside its current ownership structure? What centralized support would have to be recreated when a stand-alone entity? The SEC focuses on that in the pro formas and disclosures when there is a spin-offs public offering (IPO). I think there is an analogy to be made.

  18. #98
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Annandale, VA
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffrey View Post
    Sorry, multi-tasking... IMO, the actual effects of the vote are being felt and have been all day. The market may be wrong, but it moves quickly. IMO, certain companies and industries are providing nice entry opportunities today.
    This. I would predict Mon-Tues. will see a 1 to 2% gain in the indexes.
    The Gordog

  19. #99
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    The City of Brotherly Love except when it's cold.
    Quote Originally Posted by alteran View Post
    Nice analogy.

    In retrospect, what the hell was Cameron thinking?
    Quote Originally Posted by swood1000 View Post
    Right. Since when should democracy play a part in a thing like this?
    Quote Originally Posted by alteran View Post

    Referenda tend to create the opportunity for chaos. I don't think that's a hard concept to grasp.

    It's one of the reasons our founding fathers created a republic, not a democracy.
    Quote Originally Posted by swood1000 View Post
    It's an interesting dynamic, deciding which questions should be removed from consideration by the voters for their own good.

    Apparently, the referendum had no legal effect and could still be blocked by Parliament, most of the members of which wanted to stay. They'll have a hard time voting against it at this point, though.
    Quote Originally Posted by alteran View Post

    Yeah, I'm wondering if the effects are so disastrous that Parliament may just override, or force a second referendum vote. The former would be political suicide, and I doubt seriously it will happen. (And despite my apparent totalitarian leanings , it's an outcome I would not support.)

    The latter I see as a long shot, but possible, given the stakes. I believe it would still be a slap in the face of the voting public and cynical, but it wouldn't shock me if it came to pass.

    That being said, Cameron is on the record as saying that the will of the people absolutely has to be followed, so the lift for either of these actions just got that much higher.
    Quote Originally Posted by BandAlum83 View Post
    I've seen a number of "man on the street" interviews with people who voted LEAVE purely as a protest vote and never thought it would win. They didn't really want to win and are really concerned about the results.
    "The best case against democracy is a 5 minute conversation with the average voter." - Sir WInston Churchill

  20. #100
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    The City of Brotherly Love except when it's cold.
    Quote Originally Posted by duke74 View Post
    Isn't this also a argument relating to the status within the UK or independence of Scotland - the relative funding and support received/provided?

    An analogy for those in investment banking here - how would a division or subsidiary succeed outside its current ownership structure? What centralized support would have to be recreated when a stand-alone entity? The SEC focuses on that in the pro formas and disclosures when there is a spin-offs public offering (IPO). I think there is an analogy to be made.
    Its only economically viable for Scotland to exit the U.K. by remaining in the EU and receiving EU subsidies like the many poorer countries currently do.

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