Duke Tuition

[crimsondevil]

A major contributor to tuition increases nationally is the decrease in state funding to public universities. At least part of this is due to a societal shift in thinking about college education from a collective good to an individual good (e.g. focusing on how much more money you can expect to earn as a college grad).

Obviously this doesn't affect Duke directly. But it surely does indirectly - the "premium price for premium education" argument gets less traction if the tuition difference between Duke and, for example, UNC is too big.

Also I am skeptical of the impact of online courses on financial bottom-lines. Based on research on teaching and learning, there is a move away from traditional lecture-based courses into ones that are a lot more interactive: in-class discussion, group work, etc. that doesn't translate as well to online formats (it's possible to do, but not much more "efficient", financially).

[BigWayne]

A major contributor to tuition increases nationally is the decrease in state funding to public universities.

This issue will also be a pressure point towards online education. In California, Jerry Brown tried to tie increases in online classes to funding received from the state. If even Jerry Brown is promoting cost cutting, it's got to take hold eventually.

Also I am skeptical of the impact of online courses on financial bottom-lines. Based on research on teaching and learning, there is a move away from traditional lecture-based courses into ones that are a lot more interactive: in-class discussion, group work, etc. that doesn't translate as well to online formats (it's possible to do, but not much more "efficient", financially).

I would hazard a guess that the same professors and administrators that benefit from the current high cost model are the ones promoting this "move."

[budwom]

I don't want to get too far into PPB territory, but as federal budget cuts have reduced a lot of aid to states, and hence more states are
having trouble balancing budgets, state colleges have often taken a hit. Vermont for example acknowledges (governor, legislators) that
state colleges here deserve much more support, but money (or the political will) is hard to find.

[Jeffrey]

I would hazard a guess that the same professors and administrators that benefit from the current high cost model are the ones promoting this "move."

I would hazard a guess that the same professors and administrators that benefit from the current high cost model are also indirectly involved in the "research".

[Jeffrey]

My online education commercial... "If home schooling limited people, then Mount Rushmore would be faceless."

[nmduke2001]

My family was low/middle class when I attended in the late 90's early 2000's. I received a decent amount of aid. I was actually given more simply by asking for more. So there is always that option.

Anyway, I was back for reunion weekend a few months ago and I asked someone from the financial aid office about aid today. I was told, that for many, Duke is less expensive today than it was back then. As an example, he told me someone with similar financial resources today as I had when I was there, would be nearly free. Not sure how true that is, but that was what I was told.


this link contains a graph of aid vs family income.
http://admissions.duke.edu/application/aid

[BLPOG]

My family was low/middle class when I attended in the late 90's early 2000's. I received a decent amount of aid. I was actually given more simply by asking for more. So there is always that option.

Anyway, I was back for reunion weekend a few months ago and I asked someone from the financial aid office about aid today. I was told, that for many, Duke is less expensive today than it was back then. As an example, he told me someone with similar financial resources today as I had when I was there, would be nearly free. Not sure how true that is, but that was what I was told.


this link contains a graph of aid vs family income.
http://admissions.duke.edu/application/aid

That graph is the sort of BS that is designed to mislead, and what the financial aid office fellow told you was misleading or outright false.

It wasn't too long ago that I was at Duke. I did manage to get a very small amount of aid one year. It was not commensurate with the information in that graph.

The key is that the graph is generated for the subset receiving aid, not the overall Duke student body. It's titled "Average Aid Awarded to the Class of 2015" but it should be titled "Average Aid Awarded to the Class of 2015, Excluding those Receiving $0 Aid."

As a side note, assets matter as well, not just income. That's actually what is so upsetting to many middle-class families - they try to save and are financially "punished" for doing so when evaluated for aid eligibility.

[sagegrouse]

A major contributor to tuition increases nationally is the decrease in state funding to public universities. At least part of this is due to a societal shift in thinking about college education from a collective good to an individual good (e.g. focusing on how much more money you can expect to earn as a college grad).

Obviously this doesn't affect Duke directly. But it surely does indirectly - the "premium price for premium education" argument gets less traction if the tuition difference between Duke and, for example, UNC is too big.

Also I am skeptical of the impact of online courses on financial bottom-lines. Based on research on teaching and learning, there is a move away from traditional lecture-based courses into ones that are a lot more interactive: in-class discussion, group work, etc. that doesn't translate as well to online formats (it's possible to do, but not much more "efficient", financially).

IMHO (where that darned H is AWOL), 30+ percent of what a student gains from college is from his or her association with other students. It doesn't work in on-line courses; it doesn't even work very well for commuter as opposed to residential students. Moreover, if one actually examined in detail the peer-to-peer relationships, it would be hard to believe that valuable knowledge and experience was gained; but I truly believe it is. The main advantages are social and (quasi-)intellectual discussions and interactions with people other than immediate family members -- in other word, the broader world interactions with intelligent and ambitious people of one's own age.

[Reilly]

... 30+ percent of what a student gains from college is from his or her association with other students ...

I agree that's where a lot of "education" happens.

What's the time breakdown for four years at Duke? How many days/hours actually on campus over the four years, how many hours in formal classroom instruction, how many hours doing schoolwork or labs or prepping for class or studying, how many hours sleeping, how many eating/partying/socializing, how many volunteering, how many worshipping, how many working a work-study or off-campus job to make some money, how many taking in lectures/concerts/movies, how many doing extracurriculars or sports or working out? Would be interesting to see a 'general' breakdown, understanding it will vary from student to student.

I actually wish Duke had been more demanding in my day; I feel like I could have been pushed more (yes, I could have pushed myself, but as Selena says, "I mean, I could but why would I want to"). I wish colleges were a bit more demanding -- demanding more, inculcating more. Maybe why I've always looked favorably at service academies -- they seem to demand more, and demand more of the students' time, to the students' betterment (at least physically).

[YmoBeThere]

(yes, I could have pushed myself, but as Selena says, "I mean, I could but why would I want to")

Except that she wants "it all, no, nothing else", which tends to indicate some motivation.


PS I can't believe I just did that.

[Jeffrey]

30+ percent of what a student gains from college is from his or her association with other students.

IMO, that varies greatly by college. At many of the top schools, those associations keep on benefitting the student for the rest of their life.

[Reilly]

Except that she wants "it all, no, nothing else", which tends to indicate some motivation. ...

Sometimes desire translates into motivation, but not necessarily: I know lots who want it all, and who may even feel entitled to it all, but their desire does not motivate them to actually work for it all.

[sagegrouse]

IMHO (where that darned H is AWOL), 30+ percent of what a student gains from college is from his or her association with other students.

IMO, that varies greatly by college. At many of the top schools, those associations keep on benefitting the student for the rest of their life.

(a) It does vary, but getting out of your childhood home and associating with others 18-22 who have some intelligence and ambition is an unalloyed benefit, at least in my view. And I don't want to denigrate faculty connections, classroom or seminar teaching, and other parts of education, but I do believe that distance learning has some deficiencies because of the likely lack of personal interactions.

(b) Do college associations help later in life? Of course they can, and depending on your profession, can be really good at the elite schools. OTOH, if you are going into business in your home state, there are lots of benefits to connections from Good (or Bad) Ol' State U.