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  1. #181
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Columbus, Ohio
    Quote Originally Posted by El_Diablo View Post
    1984
    Same. It's now sold out on Amazon, funnily enough.

  2. #182
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Raleigh
    Born to Run. The book, not the album/CD.
    [redacted] them and the horses they rode in on.

  3. #183
    The subtle art of not giving a f*ck.

    Halfway through.

  4. #184
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Walnut Creek, California

    Citizens of London

    Citizens of London. This is a helluva modern history. Written by Lynne Olson and published in 2010, it is the exhaustive and exhilarating story of three major American figures who had official duties in London from 1940 through the end of the War.

    Although Edward R. Murrow and Averell Harriman are given star treatment, the headliner is John Gilbert (Gil) Winant. We think we know about Murrow and Harriman (we don't, really) but Winant is a forgotten giant of the time. Olson makes sure he gets his due in this volume.

    Insofar as the book is concerned, Winant is the American engine who created the run-up to our entry into the war. A former governor of New Hampshire, he had held several public offices for FDR. In early 1941, he replaced Joseph Kennedy as US ambassador to Great Britain. Unlike the isolationist Kennedy, who had no problems with appeasement and who thought England had already lost the war, Winant had other ideas. He became a great friend of Churchill and a serious advocate for England in its plight. Olson makes a strong case for Winant as a WW II hero. The UK eventually gave him a number of high decorations for his service. Two years after the war ended, his death qualified him as a victim of PTSD before anyone knew there was such a thing.

    Another figure she finds is Tommy Hitchcock. A WW I ace fighter pilot and international polo player obsessed by speed and competition, he is credited with convincing both governments to add the P-51 fighter plane to the air arsenal. This was a difficult task as the military bigwigs in Washington didn't think they needed it and did not cotton to its British origin/design, even though North American Aviation was its principal builder. But there was no long range fighter which could protect the bombers over Germany--until the P-51s proved it could be done. The Nazi planes were driven from the sky well before D-Day in large part due to Hitchcock's perseverance together with Winant's support.

    The stories of Murrow and Harriman are equally compelling. Murrow's is the best known. She does a nice job with it. But Harriman transformed himself from millionaire playboy (and railroad magnate) to a jack of all trades during the war. Starting out as a wartime dilettante he became a major advisor to four presidents, converting himself from lend-lease administrator to self-appointed European envoy for FDR, who eventually named him US ambassador to the Soviet Union. Like Winant, he became a close friend of Churchill. After the war, he ran for president twice and was later elected governor of New York for one term. Amazing career.

    Churchill, Eisenhower and Stalin all play major roles here. As far as I can tell, Olson is a faithful historian to the War, but the book serves as a more personal history of the War than standard studies do. It's a different angle and well worth reading if WW II fascinates you.

  5. #185
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim3k View Post
    Citizens of London. This is a helluva modern history. Written by Lynne Olson and published in 2010, it is the exhaustive and exhilarating story of three major American figures who had official duties in London from 1940 through the end of the War.

    Although Edward R. Murrow and Averell Harriman are given star treatment, the headliner is John Gilbert (Gil) Winant. We think we know about Murrow and Harriman (we don't, really) but Winant is a forgotten giant of the time. Olson makes sure he gets his due in this volume.

    Insofar as the book is concerned, Winant is the American engine who created the run-up to our entry into the war. A former governor of New Hampshire, he had held several public offices for FDR. In early 1941, he replaced Joseph Kennedy as US ambassador to Great Britain. Unlike the isolationist Kennedy, who had no problems with appeasement and who thought England had already lost the war, Winant had other ideas. He became a great friend of Churchill and a serious advocate for England in its plight. Olson makes a strong case for Winant as a WW II hero. The UK eventually gave him a number of high decorations for his service. Two years after the war ended, his death qualified him as a victim of PTSD before anyone knew there was such a thing.

    Another figure she finds is Tommy Hitchcock. A WW I ace fighter pilot and international polo player obsessed by speed and competition, he is credited with convincing both governments to add the P-51 fighter plane to the air arsenal. This was a difficult task as the military bigwigs in Washington didn't think they needed it and did not cotton to its British origin/design, even though North American Aviation was its principal builder. But there was no long range fighter which could protect the bombers over Germany--until the P-51s proved it could be done. The Nazi planes were driven from the sky well before D-Day in large part due to Hitchcock's perseverance together with Winant's support.

    The stories of Murrow and Harriman are equally compelling. Murrow's is the best known. She does a nice job with it. But Harriman transformed himself from millionaire playboy (and railroad magnate) to a jack of all trades during the war. Starting out as a wartime dilettante he became a major advisor to four presidents, converting himself from lend-lease administrator to self-appointed European envoy for FDR, who eventually named him US ambassador to the Soviet Union. Like Winant, he became a close friend of Churchill. After the war, he ran for president twice and was later elected governor of New York for one term. Amazing career.

    Churchill, Eisenhower and Stalin all play major roles here. As far as I can tell, Olson is a faithful historian to the War, but the book serves as a more personal history of the War than standard studies do. It's a different angle and well worth reading if WW II fascinates you.
    I love Olson's work. I first ran across her in 2003 with A Question of Honor, a history of the refugee Polish squadron that helped turn the tide in the Battle of Britain -- and how their contribution was ignored and covered up by the British government (which didn't want to antagonize the Russians in the days after WWII).

    I also enjoyed her 2007 book Troublesome Young Men, a study of the small group of Tory radicals who forced Churchill into a leadership position in the early days of WWII.

    My favorite Lynne Olson book is her 2013 book Those Angry Days, about the political war between FDR and Charles Lindbergh -- a great study of the battle over how America should respond to Britain's plight in 1940-41.

    I'm sure that touches on Citizens of London, which I have not read yet.

    You raise a couple of points that I want to explore --

    (1) The genesis of the P-51 ... it was NOT a British design. What happened was that the British Purchasing Commission wanted to buy the Curtiss P-40 (the plane made famous by the Flying Tigers). But the Curtiss assembly line was running 24 hours a day and every plane off the line was committed -- most to the US Army Air Force. The British came up with the idea of getting the P-40 licensed to North American Aviation, which had idle assembly lines. It was North American Aviation that convinced the British to purchase their design instead -- the experimental NA73X was a radical new design with several revolutionary features, especially the laminar flow airfoils (designed in conjunction with the NACA, the forerunner to NASA).

    The only problem with the North American design with the engine -- an Allison engine with a single-stage supercharger. With the Allison engine, the new plane was very good at low altitude, but not suited for the high-altitude role it would need as a bomber escort. The British loved the design and used their first purchases as fighter bombers and as photo recon birds.

    It was only when the British experimented with the Rolls-Royce Merlin engine that the P-51 became the best (piston-driven) fighter plane of WWII. The blending of the American air frame and the British engine is what made the P-51 great.

    I want to read about what Olson says about the problems you mention with big wigs in Washington not needing or wanting the North American plane. That actually helped the British early in that there was strong resistance in Washington to selling the British ANY American planes -- not only did we need them for our own rearmament, many powerful men believed Britain was doomed and it wasn't smart to throw weapons we needed in a lost cause. The low regard for the early P-51s actually helped the British pry the unwanted planes from the American establishment. And as for the need for a long-range fighter escort, it wasn't until well into 1942 that the Army Air Force acknowledged the need for such a plane. Before then, they believed that the heavily armed American bombers, packed in tight formations, had little to fear from German fighters. It didn't take long to find out they were wrong -- but luckily, North American -- with British help -- had the P-51 ready when we needed it.

    (2) I am very interested to read Olson's portrait of Winant, because it doesn't gibe with what I think I know.

    He is an interesting man yes -- he had an affair with Churchill's daughter, his son was shot down in a bomber over German and spent much of the war in a Luft Stalag. After the war, Winant was depressed that his marriage was failing, his affair with Sarah Churchill was ending badly and he failed to get appointed secretary general of the new UN -- so he killed himself.

    The problem I have is that nothing I've heard or read indicates that Winant was an especially important man in our dealings with Churchill and the British. He was immensely popular in Britain, especially when he first arrived in the spring of 1941. But that was because he was seen by the British as an expression of FDR's support for the British war effort. I'm not sure Winant played much of a role in guiding that support. FDR preferred to work outside the State Department -- Winant was no more important than Joe Kennedy. The key man for FDR was Harry Hopkins ... he was the man FDR sent to London to decide whether America should cast its lot with the British or stay on its own side of the Atlantic and look to or own defense. It was Hopkins who sold FDR on the idea that Britain would stay in the war and fight to the end -- with our help. A year later, it was Hopkins who traveled to Moscow and made the same determination about the Russians-- at a time when our military leaders were unanimous in their opinion that the Soviet Union would collapse in weeks.

    I think Harriman was an important envoy for FDR. But I'm not sure what Winant did ... other than function as a symbol of American support. He wasn't even the go-between for FDR and Churchill -- they dealt with each other directly.

    I look forward to reading Olson's book -- and seeing if she can change my view of Winant's role in London.

    PS If you are interested in this subject, may I suggest you read Michael Fullilove's Rendezvous with Destiny, which explores FDR's use of unconventional diplomatic emissaries and has a particularly good account of Hopkins' pivotal mission in early 1941.

  6. #186
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Walnut Creek, California
    One person Olson does not mention, probably because he was not a Londoner per se, is Sir William Stephenson ("Man Called Intrepid") who may have been more influential with FDR than even Harry Hopkins. But he was a spook and, aside from the "Intrepid" book, not much is really known about him. We do know he was an FDR-Churchill go-between both before and during the war. We also know that FDR was reluctant to enter, probably looking for an incident to justify it, and in a politically difficult position due to the Nation's isolationist Congress. Communications lines needed to be opened between him and Churchill. She asserts that Winant was one of those channels.
    Last edited by Jim3k; 03-09-2017 at 02:20 AM.

  7. #187
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Asheville, NC
    Just finished The Agony & The Ecstasy again. Still a great book. Now reading I,Claudius. An interesting read but I'm not quite as engaged. I'll probably pick up Claudius the God when I'm through however.

  8. #188
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    San Diego, California
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim3k View Post
    Citizens of London.Although Edward R. Murrow and Averell Harriman are given star treatment...
    In the seventies I was invited to Mr. Harriman's house in Georgetown for an audience with the great man. Remarkable.

  9. #189
    Quote Originally Posted by RPS View Post
    In the seventies I was invited to Mr. Harriman's house in Georgetown for an audience with the great man. Remarkable.
    Did you ride on the family railroad?

  10. #190
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    Ironically, the City of Angels
    I've been reading collections of short stories I got for Christmas. Lovecraft's Monsters was essentially exactly what it sounds like, with stories based around the different stories from his mythos (not necessarily originally created by him, though, as it included the Hounds of Tindalos and the King in Yellow, for example). Not all of them were in the Lovecraft model. They sometimes just used the monsters. Fun book, if you like fantasy/horror stories.

    I also read the Neil Gaiman edited Unnatural Creatures, which is quirky and fun.

    I'd planned to start Aickman's Heirs, a book of stories based on the works of one of my favorite writers, Robert Aickman. But the cover was damaged, so I had to send it for replacement. In the meantime, I caught up with the current Wonder Woman and Kill or Be Killed comic book runs. I have about a long box's worth in my backlog, since I was working so much last year and they just kind of piled up.

    In another vein, I have The President and the Assassin and Brian Evenson's The Wandering Eye, waiting for me.

  11. #191
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Northwest NC
    Just finished Endurance, Shackleton's incredible voyage about the early 1900's attempt for a trans-continental crossing of Antarctica. Its an astounding story of the human will to survive. It's one of those stories that if it wasn't documented there's no way you would believe it. Fascinating story.

  12. #192
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Arlington, VA
    In another vein, I have The President and the Assassin and Brian Evenson's The Wandering Eye, waiting for me.[/QUOTE]

    I love me some Brian Evenson. Last Days and Immobility are my favorite so far. The short story A Collapse of Horses was solid too. I finally finished A Feast For Crows. It wasn't too bad. Not nearly as good as Storm of Swords, but it had some moments. I'm taking a break before Dance with Dragons and reading Drew Magary's The Hike. It's relatively short and won't require me to think too much. It's a weird and trippy book so far. He writes for Deadspin and GQ if anyone has an interest in him or his writings.

  13. #193
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Raleigh
    The box score of tonight's game.
    [redacted] them and the horses they rode in on.

  14. #194
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Greenville, SC
    Normally I'm a sci fi reader, recently Charles Stross and John Scalzi.

    Tonight I'm reading the Elizabeth King Forum. It seems that Duke raised the roof in Brooklyn.

  15. #195
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    St. Louis
    Quote Originally Posted by Olympic Fan View Post
    I read it a while ago and thought it was brilliant -- but it might be a little heavy going unless you are a real history buff.

    However, for a more general audience ... you might try a new book, Grant's Final Victory by Charles Flood.

    Shortly after Grant learned that he had been wiped out financially in 1884, the ex-President found out that he had terminal throat and mouth cancer. He used his last months to write his memoirs, in increasing pain -- a race to finish before his death. He made it in the nick of time, the book was published by Mark Twain of all people and became one of the best sellers of the late 19th century ... making enough money to restore his family's finances.

    Flood argues that the memoirs had significant impact in healing the nation's wounds. Definitely worth reading.
    I'm following up on my exchange with OF a couple of months ago; I had asked if anyone had read the memoirs of General Grant, and OF's reply is quoted above. I just got through reading those memoirs--it's a dense book, but immensely enjoyable and well-written. And, yes, you have to be a real history buff to get through it, but I am.

  16. #196
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Mount Kisco, NY
    Great book for basketball coaches and students of the game

    Basketball is Jazz by David Thorpe
    https://www.amazon.com/Basketball-Ja...etball+is+jazz

  17. #197
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Wilmington, DE
    I've never been in a high-performance race car sitting next to a talking dog, nor have I ever been surfing on ocean waves, but this won't stop me from highly recommending either of the two following books: The Art Of Racing In The Rain and The Illustrated Atlas Of Surfing History.

    I just finished reading Garth Stein's The Art Of Racing In The Rain and it was a very moving (pun intended) experience. The dog doesn't actually talk in this novel - tho' he's not shy about reminding the reader that he wishes he could - but Enzo, the dog, does do an excellent job of narrating the story. It's a story that you can fully appreciate without even needing to be a race car fan. It does probably help if you like dogs. However, if you don't yet like dogs, I'm confident that listening to Enzo will change your mind.

    http://www.garthstein.com/works/the-...g-in-the-rain/

    When it comes to reading, I'm usually more of a non-fiction kinda guy, but I'm really glad I listened to the person who recommended The Art Of Racing In The Rain book to me. I may even read it again or, at the very least, pay more attention to what dogs have to say in my everyday non-fiction world.

    I now know that the next person I meet might have been a dog in a previous incarnation. I learned from this book that this is actually a good thing. According to a cherished Mongolian legend: “Not all dogs return as men, they say; only those who are ready.” Enzo was ready.

    The second book I'm recommending, The Illustrated Atlas of Surfing History, is written by a Duke alum and former classmate, Joel T. Smith. Joel not only has surfed a lot, he's good at it and he has done it all over the world. Joel’s non-fiction book is a fun read that starts back at wave riding's roots around 3000 BC and moves on from there. The book is now poised to be used as the basis of a museum exhibition. The exhibition - being done by the Surfing Heritage and Culture Center (SHACC) in San Clemente, CA - will be timed to go with surfing’s première as an Olympic sport in Tokyo. The exhibition is slated to make its debut at SHACC in the winter of 2017 - 2018, and then travel to other museums and cultural centers here and abroad.

    https://theillustratedatlasofsurfing...ress.com/blog/

    Joel's book was released last year and is readily available in bookstores in Hawaii. On the mainland it is available from Amazon:

    https://www.amazon.com/Illustrated-A.../dp/1617102865

    If you check the reviews at the above Amazon link, you'll see that Joel's book is batting 100% when it comes to 5 star reviews. Perhaps one of you wave riders will be the next 5 star reviewer of Joel's book. If Enzo, the dog, were to return as a human, I can see him giving Joel’s book a 5 star rating….Enzo was all about moving fast and becoming a champion.

  18. #198
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Bethesda, MD
    Quote Originally Posted by PSurprise View Post
    Just finished The Agony & The Ecstasy again. Still a great book. Now reading I,Claudius. An interesting read but I'm not quite as engaged. I'll probably pick up Claudius the God when I'm through however.
    I loved the two Claudius books. I recommend Graves' Goodbye to All That, too.

  19. #199

    Thank You for Being Late

    by Tom Friedman


    It certainly has me thinking.

    SoCal

  20. #200
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Arlington, VA
    Mongrels by Stephen Graham Jones. Not something I would expect would have a wide audience here. I enjoy his stuff. He's Blackfeet Native American so he has a voice I don't have much experience with. Next up is A Dance With Dragons. So I can start waiting on the next book with everyone else.

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